An Open Letter to JB Haters

[thejazz97]

Okay, so the reason I don't blame Benning - and I think a lot of people misunderstand this - the reason I don't blame JB is that he was hired for a retool. Not a rebuild. This is why they tried to get back to the playoffs instead of tanking. This is why he signed Vrbata and Miller. And we did, we made the playoffs. Now, was that the right move to make? Perhaps; perhaps not. But if you look at the moves he's made, they were all to put the Canucks in a better position to make the playoffs. Now, management has recognized that it's time for a rebuild and are treating it as such.

 

If you're getting mad at management for doing a retool, 1) we were good enough at the time to do one, and 2) for the most part, management doesn't really care what the fans think, they'll do what they see to be the best fit for this franchise. Was Miller overpaid? Probably. But management didn't know what Lack and Markstrom could do, so they signed Miller to a good contract where they can trade him to 5-10 teams, and drafted Demko.

 

I will admit that signing Bartkowski was not the best, but Weber was supposed to be a 10 goal d-man again. We weren't supposed to have so many injuries.

 

You hate Sbisa? Everyone was oooing and ahhing at how much JB got for Kesler when he could really only trade him to one or two teams. Out of that deal came Sbisa, McCann, Dorsett (who has been an okay player but a leader in the room), and by domino effect, Brandon Sutter, who could be our top line RW or our 2nd line centre next year.

 

You hate the Kassian trade? Sure, it might not have been the best, but Prust was a decent fourth-liner who Montreal was pining about trading away. And if Kassian had had his accident here, you would have told JB he was the worst GM ever because he didn't get rid of him sooner.

 

The Garrison deal was a good deal - he had one good year last year and is back to mediocrity on an albatross contract.

 

Any other team would have had to pay a 2nd for Vey. And we got him because there was a good chance Horvat was going back to junior. A very small amount of people - if anyone - expected Horvat to stick.

 

After two years of drafting, three players have already made the NHL, with at least two more in the pros by next year (Demko/Boeser/Neill/Stewart/Jasek/etc).

 

You think our management team sucks for not embracing the tank? We're in a position to get an amazingly solid player in the draft this year, whether it's at defenseman or forward, whether we win the lottery or not.

 

You think management sucks for trading Shinkaruk? First of all, Granlund is nothing to sniff at. Secondly, would you rather have Shinkaruk flounder on the bottom 6 for the next three years or shuttle between Vancouver and Utica? Neither would be good for his development, and Granlund was the best they could get for him, which is not a bad return. You say, "Oh yeah, well Calgary's playing him on their first line!" And that's because they have a spot open to play him there. We don't.

 

I'm not saying we were good enough this year to make the playoffs. Ceterus paribus minus our injuries, we'd still be a playoff bubble team.

 

I'm not saying JB has been the best GM. But he's been a lot better than a lot of people have given him credit for.

[Kevin Biestra]

I don't agree with a single word in the Shinkaruk / Granlund paragraph.

[thejazz97]

1 minute ago, Kevin Biestra said:

I don't agree with a single word in the Shinkaruk / Granlund paragraph.

He's a LW. Do you take out Sedin or Baertschi from the top 6?

[RUPERTKBD]

It's a fair enough point Jazz, but there's really no proof whatsoever that Benning and Linden didn't decide on the retool over the rebuild without being forced into it by ownership.

 

it's entirely possible that they both felt that it was the way to go and Aqua went along with their opinions. It was the wrong move, IMHO, but it doesn't mean that it can't ultimately work out. There's more than one way to skin a cat...

[Warhippy]

Just now, thejazz97 said:

He's a LW. Do you take out Sedin or Baertschi from the top 6?

By all reports we are taking Sedin out within 2 years so.....you know, banking on him to sign a contract here instead of outright retiring when we're the whipping boy of the league is a bit of a stretch

[Heretic]

There are JB haters?  I thought they were just people who don't understand.  

[Warhippy]

I see a lot of personal opinion.  Open letter to everyone.

 

Your opinion means as much as his opinion, her opinion and to be honest Both has a more valued opinion than you based on his proximity to players and management.

[ABNuck]

Pretty good analysis. I think too that what a lot of fans don't acknowledge is that, for the 29 teams who didn't win the cup, retool and rebuild are at the opposite ends of the spectrum...so to start down one path (retool) then do an about face to march to the other end takes time and patience.

 

EDIT: and this isn't just opinion, it's fact. We signed Miller/Vrbata to do a retool (as stated by OP), but now that we realize that that experiment was a bust, we are full on rebuild.

[thejazz97]

3 minutes ago, Heretic said:

There are JB haters?  I thought they were just people who don't understand.  

 

Just now, Warhippy said:

I see a lot of personal opinion.  Open letter to everyone.

 

Your opinion means as much as his opinion, her opinion and to be honest Both has a more valued opinion than you based on his proximity to players and management.

Sorry, I just saw a Desi post on JB and got a bit riled up to say the least  

 

But a lot of this is just connecting dots with what JB was hired to do in the first place.

[McIlhargey the Lesser]

12 minutes ago, thejazz97 said:

Okay, so the reason I don't blame Benning - and I think a lot of people misunderstand this - the reason I don't blame JB is that he was hired for a retool. Not a rebuild. This is why they tried to get back to the playoffs instead of tanking. This is why he signed Vrbata and Miller. And we did, we made the playoffs. Now, was that the right move to make? Perhaps; perhaps not. But if you look at the moves he's made, they were all to put the Canucks in a better position to make the playoffs. Now, management has recognized that it's time for a rebuild and are treating it as such.

 

If you're getting mad at management for doing a retool, 1) we were good enough at the time to do one, and 2) for the most part, management doesn't really care what the fans think, they'll do what they see to be the best fit for this franchise. Was Miller overpaid? Probably. But management didn't know what Lack and Markstrom could do, so they signed Miller to a good contract where they can trade him to 5-10 teams, and drafted Demko.

 

I will admit that signing Bartkowski was not the best, but Weber was supposed to be a 10 goal d-man again. We weren't supposed to have so many injuries.

 

You hate Sbisa? Everyone was oooing and ahhing at how much JB got for Kesler when he could really only trade him to one or two teams. Out of that deal came Sbisa, McCann, Dorsett (who has been an okay player but a leader in the room), and by domino effect, Brandon Sutter, who could be our top line RW or our 2nd line centre next year.

 

You hate the Kassian trade? Sure, it might not have been the best, but Prust was a decent fourth-liner who Montreal was pining about trading away. And if Kassian had had his accident here, you would have told JB he was the worst GM ever because he didn't get rid of him sooner.

 

The Garrison deal was a good deal - he had one good year last year and is back to mediocrity on an albatross contract.

 

Any other team would have had to pay a 2nd for Vey. And we got him because there was a good chance Horvat was going back to junior. A very small amount of people - if anyone - expected Horvat to stick.

 

After two years of drafting, three players have already made the NHL, with at least two more in the pros by next year (Demko/Boeser/Neill/Stewart/Jasek/etc).

 

You think our management team sucks for not embracing the tank? We're in a position to get an amazingly solid player in the draft this year, whether it's at defenseman or forward, whether we win the lottery or not.

 

You think management sucks for trading Shinkaruk? First of all, Granlund is nothing to sniff at. Secondly, would you rather have Shinkaruk flounder on the bottom 6 for the next three years or shuttle between Vancouver and Utica? Neither would be good for his development, and Granlund was the best they could get for him, which is not a bad return. You say, "Oh yeah, well Calgary's playing him on their first line!" And that's because they have a spot open to play him there. We don't.

 

I'm not saying we were good enough this year to make the playoffs. Ceterus paribus minus our injuries, we'd still be a playoff bubble team.

 

I'm not saying JB has been the best GM. But he's been a lot better than a lot of people have given him credit for.

You home schooled, early starting university kids and your analysis, reasoning, big words, short, difficult words and Latin!

You think you know everything!

 

But seriously, I agree with you completely.

[Warhippy]

4 minutes ago, thejazz97 said:

 

Sorry, I just saw a Desi post on JB and got a bit riled up to say the least  

 

But a lot of this is just connecting dots with what JB was hired to do in the first place.

Ugghhh a Desi post always brings out the worst in us.

 

You're not far off.  but at the same time you're not too close to the mark either.  We're a team in transition and things haven't even begun to get bad.  In fact I'd go so far as to say, depending on what Calgary does this off season We're in for a very very rough ride over the next few years.

 

Pretty sure we're gonna have our shot in 2017 or 2018 at a top 3 overall pick.

 

[Crabcakes]

Year 1 Retool.  Give the old core another kick at a cup.  Add Miller.  Add Vrbata.  Trading Kesler wasn't supposed to happen but he insisted.  What can you do?  Kesler could see the writing on the wall.  A rebuild was coming and the 30 year old wanted a cup.  He knew that he wasn't getting one in Van.  The Retool was to humour ownership imo but the Kesler trade stripped the team more than they wanted.  It turned out to look more like the inevitable rebuild anyways.

 

Year 2.  Nobody is saying the word but the turnover was clear.  Another core player gone (Bieksa) and more young players and others who Benning wanted to develop some were brought in.  The rebuild is on.  Make no mistake.

 

Benning is doing fine.  Not everything turns to gold but some good moves and solid drafting.

[Wilbur]

To add the Shinkaruk point.  Yes, he is getting 1st line minutes right now, when the games are meaningless.  I'd be shocked if he's getting them at the start of next year.  I'm not saying this trade will turn out in JB's favour, but, just as the book is still open on what Shinkaruk can do in the NHL, the book isn't closed on Granlund.  He's, what, one year older?

[falcon45ca]

38 minutes ago, Kevin Biestra said:

I don't agree with a single word in the Shinkaruk / Granlund paragraph.

You don't agree with the word "think"? 

 

How about the word "Calgary"?

 

Surely you don't take umbrage with the word "you"?

[Drfeelgood]

You think this is a re-tool?

The only "tools" are the managent of this organization. They are merely puppets of a greedy ownership group whom are only concerned with developing real estate rather than winning Stanley cups. 

Let's look at some of the blunders:

- loss of Corrado on waivers

- signing of Miller, stupid contract

- stupid contracts to Sbisa and Dorsett

- Vey for a second 

- not trading Hammer and Verbata both whom will not be back next year. 

- shinkaruk for Granlund (only a moron would make that trade)

 

I am sure there is more, but I am too worked up to remember. 

Rookie President, Rookie GM, Rookie Coach, who runs a company like this and expects it to succeed. 

JB an amazing eye for talent YES, 

as a General Manager - HORRIBLE!

[Vanisleryan]

Its funny because I often see some of the same people going on about how our "rebuild" sucks and its more like a "retool" and Jim Benning sucks.  Mean while those same people want us to go out and sign Lucic, Okposo or Erickson.  

 

If you really want a full on blow it up rebuild then we dont sign those guys, we sign rentals on one year deals like Toronto did to flip for picks...thats a rebuild. 

 

But guess why we "retool" or "rebuild" on the fly....because this fan base demands a competitive team.  We have grown a custom to it over the years and as much as some say they could handle a full blown "rebuild"...well they cant hardly handle these last 15 games.

 

I trust in Jim Bennings plan, he is no doubt a great evaluator of talent. Is every move he makes a home run? No...but he''s building a team not collecting individuals so sometimes things wont fit to plan.

[TimberWolf]

The problem with Benning is you need excuses and handwaves to defend him

 

"Ownership stops him" 

"Injuries"

'That player would never be elite"

"Those picks are rarely making the NHL"

"no market for players"

etc etc

 

You could make a case for firing Gillis for not being on board with the ownership plan but I highly doubt that FA hires more mavericks to keep in line. Likely Benning and Ownership are all on the same page here.

 

Injuries affected our season but not to the degree that we would have been some kind of contender without them. Injuries did not make JB spend to the cap on our bottom six while ignoring the defense and lack of scoring. 

 

Would a player like Corrodo be elite? Nope, not on your life. But did we have such an overwhelming glut of RHD's we could give them away for nothing even though we had methods available to us not to? 

 

I keep hearing what a wizard Benning is with amatuer scouting. So how about we have some ammo for his reputed best weapon?

 

The deadline was abysmal. Yes, it's tough to make a market but when you have Hammer reporting that the team hasn't approached him then you can't be surprised you can't find a deal if you wait until the last minute. It was long obvious this team wasn't good way before the deadline and we should have already been preparing for it. 

 

None of the above is debilitating on it's own and no move was a true franchise killer if they were anomalies but death by a thousand cuts is still death. These are only some examples of what how JB trends in nearly every move this team makes

 

 

As for anything else if you really watch JB you can predict him pretty easily. For example his first draft. While I like Jake it was a safe pick. Jake at worst is still fast and NHL sized so a bust for him would be 4th line utility. The other two were top six or bust. They have higher ceilings than Jake but lower floors. JB doesn't take chances and you can see that with a majority of his moves. The only exception is Sven and that has Weisbrod written all over it. JB likes his guaranteed NHL-ers and it doesn't matter if they are the same boring stickchecker we already have too many of in the lineup. 

 

TL;DR JB is not a good GM and it doesn't matter the ownership. If Ownership wants a retool while competing then JB and co managed to fail spectacularly at every level of that idiocy of a plan. 

[combover]

I disagree and if your argument is the "retool" on the fly  then he's an even bigger failure. 

The teams has downgraded every position with the exception of goal 

he's handed out horrible contracts  sbisa ( and I like sbisa) Dorset ntc to vrbata Miller and sutter. 

The kassian thing should have cost him his job that was stupidly at its best. That doesn't get into the other 5th he's tossed and frosling for nothing deals ugh the list of blunders is too long. (Jay feaster k-Lowe long)

The deadline was icing on the cake for a group that has displayed more incompetence in 1.5 season than this franchise has seen in its history and he has his name in the negative records to prove it. He has iced one of if not the least talented team in franchise history. it's a line up third/fourth liners that nonis would be proud off. 

 he's a terrible gm and I would argue that currently working in the NHL there is none worse. 

 

 

Keenan 

nonis 

benning/Aqualoser 

 

Yeah, he's a top three franchise loser list. 

 

 

 

[Warhippy]

2 minutes ago, combover said:

I disagree and if your argument is the "retool" on the fly  then he's an even bigger failure. 

The teams has downgraded every position with the exception of goal 

he's handed out horrible contracts  sbisa ( and I like sbisa) Dorset ntc to vrbata Miller and sutter. 

The kassian thing should have cost him his job that was stupidly at its best. That doesn't get into the other 5th he's tossed and frosling for nothing deals ugh the list of blunders is too long. (Jay feaster k-Lowe long)

The deadline was icing on the cake for a group that has displayed more incompetence in 1.5 season than this franchise has seen in its history and he has his name in the negative records to prove it. He has iced one of if not the least talented team in franchise history. it's a line up third/fourth liners that nonis would be proud off. 

 he's a terrible gm and I would argue that currently working in the NHL there is none worse. 

 

 

Keenan 

nonis 

benning/Aqualoser 

 

Yeah, he's a top three franchise loser list. 

 

 

 

Sadly, and this is true.  Injuries aside this IS one of if not the worst team in franchise history for the modern era

[Fanuck]

2 minutes ago, Drfeelgood said:

 

I am sure there is more, but I am too worked up to remember. 

Rookie President, Rookie GM, Rookie Coach, who runs a company like this and expects it to succeed. 

JB an amazing eye for talent YES, 

as a General Manager - HORRIBLE!

Linden - universally loved by this city/province and not IMO directly responsible for the day-to-day operations of the team on the ice.  He's more/less a figurehead hired by Aquaman to re-gain popular support by fans. 

 

JB - universally known as a great talent scout and yet to be determined his full GM capabilities.  Let's face it - he inherited a team trending in the wrong direction and you don't turn a team like that around in a season or two, it takes the one thing many fans don't want to give - time.  Our nearest comparable IMO is Boston b/c we were at the same point in franchise development - they aren't much better than we are IMO - sure they have a kick at the post-season but then I believe we would have also were it not for injury - but I suppose that's debatable. 

 

WD- universally known throughout the hockey world as a very good coach - his past record speaks for itself (championships at multiple levels).  I defy you to take any team in the league - hit them with the man-games lost to injury to key players like we experienced this season and ask their coaches to do significantly better.

 

What's the missing variable here - OWNERSHIP.  They are the anchor dragging down this sinking ship IMO.  I could go on, but why bother - Aquaman and his group continue to escape all major criticism/blame/accountability for their actions/inactions when ultimately they should be held accountable IMO.  If finishing in the bottom 3-5 of the league doesn't force them into a reality check what will?  Time for Aquaman to completely unshackle the hockey management group of the team to truly allow them to do their jobs without interference.