[Proposal] Enough 2-way Cs: More playmakers

[Z Hockey]

I'm seriously starting to notice a trend that Gillis started and Benning/Linden have

continued. We have an obsession with

2-way centers and getting rid of our only skilled playmaking forwards... 

It started in 2010 when Wellwood was let go and then Malhotra was signed (This was a great move but I'll get to where it starts to get bad...)

Then our best young playmaking center (Hodgson) was traded for Kassian and Hodgson was replaced with a very

grinding/2-way oriented Sami Pahlsson.

Now I loved this trade for a while and still am a Kassian lover, but now we know nobody won it, this was also a fine move but I'm pointing out all the times we shed playmakers and brought in more 2-way centers. I'm getting there...

Now at this point both Malhotra, Pahlsson, (and Lapierre) have all been

rental/short term 2-way centers to help a Cup Run. The Canucks then after 2011 start realizing they need to slowly start re-tooling.

So they draft a '2-way like' center in Gaunce in 2012 in the 1st round. Now Gaunce has playmaking/scoring touch upside and is also now a winger but I'm just showing how they're always after 2-way centers. 

Everyone was saying as usual at this point that the Canucks are always looking for a

prototypical 3rd line center.

Gaunce seemed to fit the mold to slide in

behind H. Sedin & Kesler in that 3rd line C role down the road. Then at the 2013 Draft Schneider is traded to NJ for 9th overall and Horvat is selected. Now Horvat was clearly the BPA and as McGuire mentioned one team had him as high as 4th overall.

But once again another player who can slot in behind H. Sedin & Kesler

(albeit Horvats upside is 1st line material).

Horvat was a shrewd pick but anyway now I'll really get my point across.

Then another 2-way center is drafted in the 3rd round in Cassels, yes Cassels has

playmaking upside and he shutdown

McDavid but 2-way centers are starting to get redundant at this point.

Players still available before Cassels...

Playmaking/skill wingers like

Andrighetto, Bjorkstrand, and T. Lindberg and two of which are in the NHL and looking decent.

 

Andrew Ebbett and Jeremy Welsh were also signed in respective seasons, more 2-way centers.....

Then after acquiring a playmaking C via trade, a stop gap veteran playmaking center in Derek Roy is let go and replaced with

another 2-way/grinder C with limited skill in Brad Richardson.

(YES I KNOW ROY WAS ALWAYS A RENTAL.)

 

Richardson held the fort of 3rd line C for a while and then Luongo was traded to the Panthers for ANOTHER 2-way C in Matthias....

Then the following season another young skilled playmaking C in Schroeder is let go. (I personally don't think Schroeder got a fair chance like most prospects we trade.)

 

Now Gillis is fired and everyone knows Kesler really does want out...

What do the Canucks want back?

A center who can score and make plays... Kesler is traded for a slick playmaking C in Bonino (and Sbisa, 24th/McCann, and the 3rd which turned into Dorsett.) we also add another playmaking C in Vey from the Kings.

 

Boninos production dipped obviously without having Getzlaf or Perry around by 10 points. 

Still he played decent and was a solid

playmaker for us, then he is traded for

ANOTHER 2-way center in Sutter.

I like this trade personally and Sutter can produce points too, but the habit and

mentality of upper management is getting ridiculous at this point. Horvat isn't ready to take the 2C reigns so get him some help I get it, but at this point we've had

Malhotra, Pahlsson, D.Roy, Ebbett,

Richardson,& Matthias slot in because they were brought in because management liked them as 2-way Cs. (Except Roy who is more of a playmaker.).   Now we have Sutter to help Horvat,  & Gaunce, Cassels, Labate in the pipeline as two-way Cs. We also have a nice young playmaking C in Vey... But then... ANOTHER TWO WAY C IS BROUGHT IN.

 

Our best young skilled/playmaking forward and top AHL scorer in Shinkaruk is traded for a 2-way C in Granlund. Now I'm not trying to turn this into a Shink/Granlund trade debate and IMO I like the trade and Granlund has playmaking upside and I think his skill is

underrated.  I'm just saying once again that managements mindset is seemingly shed pure playmaking talent and acquire more

2-way Cs. The 2-way C obsession is going too far, we need to be adding more

playmaking wingers like Shinkaruk. I hope Benning/Linden/Weisbrod grab some at the draft or trade for them. 

 

Playmaking C's/forwards let go/traded or passed up on at drafts...

D.Roy, Schroeder, Bonino, Cal O'Reilly,  Shinkaruk, Pearson, Andrighetto,

Bjorkstrand, T. Lindberg

 

Playmaking C's/forwards brought in...

Baertschi, McCann, Vey, Rodin, Jasek...

 

Two-way C's brought in in the past and now...

Malhotra, Lapierre, Pahlsson, Ebbett, Richardson, J.Welsh, Matthias, Sutter,

Ma. Granlund, Horvat, B.Gaunce, Cassels, Labate, Jeffrey, Acton....

 

 

[Gstank29]

our 2 way forwards can make plays just because you labelled them one way doesn't mean they can't do the other

 

Also Bonino is a 2 way forward as is Pearson.

[Blueberries]

McCann is 2-way as well. It's the Boston model. MG got obsessed with it and JB helped build it. If you think about it, the owners are likely the ones who want the Boston model, hence why they hired JB.

[Blueberries]

4 minutes ago, Gstank29 said:

our 2 way forwards can make plays just because you labelled them one way doesn't mean they can't do the other

 

Also Bonino is a 2 way forward as is Pearson.

It's not about that, I don't speak for the OP here, but for me, we have too many guys who are good/decent at both ends but aren't excellent at one end (young guns only).

[Junkyard Dog]

Skilled players can make the jump early due to their natural offensive talent.

 

Two-way/Power forwards usually take more time to develop.

[Where'd Luongo?]

I'd like to see some creativity as well.

[terrible.dee]

8 minutes ago, Blueberries said:

It's not about that, I don't speak for the OP here, but for me, we have too many guys who are good/decent at both ends but aren't excellent at one end (young guns only).

Vey has what it takes to be a 60+ pt. forward

 

In the 80's he'd already be there

 

But it's not really the Canucks who are to blame, the entire league has become obsessed with the item of the player who does EVERYTHING

 

And in doing this  all players, in their quest top be all things to all coaches, have begun to all look the same,

 

Back in the day you had tough guys offensive guys defensive guys ect ect. if you were good at one thing, that was good enough

 

Now EVERYONE has to be a defensive specialist, a shot blocker, a play maker, a piece of "Team toughness" because if they don't they don't play

 

If Brett Hull was coming up today, he would NEVER see NHL ice  "Has to work on his skating and defensive game"

 

Gretzky? "Needs to work on his skating on put on about 20 lbs of muscle"

 

Luc Robatille? HAHAHA with his defensive game and skating he never would have made the AHL

 

Today's superstars are the coaches, the league has been turned over to them

[Kazmanian Devil]

17 minutes ago, terrible.dee said:

Vey has what it takes to be a 60+ pt. forward

in the ECHL, yes

[Z Hockey]

1 hour ago, Gstank29 said:

our 2 way forwards can make plays just because you labelled them one way doesn't mean they can't do the other

 

Also Bonino is a 2 way forward as is Pearson.

We still constantly ship out pure talent for redundant 2-way players. We need more skilled playmaking wingers.

Not just centers, everything has to be more playmaking and set-up mentality with D men and

forwards. It's always 2-way guys like Sutter, Higgins, Hansen, Matthias,

Richardson, Ebbett, etc.  

Just like we need set-up men on the wings, we need set up men on D

(PP QBs). Our D has constantly been 2-way as well, we haven't had a legit offensive minded PP point man since Ehrhoff.  

Tanev, Edler, Hamhuis, Garrison, Sbisa, Ballard, Stanton all 2-way guys. We need someone like

Brian Campbell on the point and then playmaking wingers.

We've had and still have a lot of

redundant 2-way guys with no

hands and/or vision.

(Hansen, Matthias, Higgins, Booth,

Richardson, Ebbett, etc.)

 

Also Bonino isn't a full on labelled

two way forward... He's crappy on draws, can't back-check overly well since he's a poor skater, and he's not that physical or strong. Like Benning said to the brass when they traded for him...

"Bonino is a distributer, he makes players around him better

because he can get them the puck."

 

^That sounds like a playmaker.

[Z Hockey]

1 hour ago, Blueberries said:

McCann is 2-way as well. It's the Boston model. MG got obsessed with it and JB helped build it. If you think about it, the owners are likely the ones who want the Boston model, hence why they hired JB.

McCann has Elite upside though, a lot of other guys we have and have had have been strictly two-way with no hands or vision.

McCann though is very skilled and scouts said he's an "Elite level skill package".

[Z Hockey]

1 hour ago, Blueberries said:

It's not about that, I don't speak for the OP here, but for me, we have too many guys who are good/decent at both ends but aren't excellent at one end (young guns only).

Thank you blueberries, too many guys

decent at both ends. Sort of what I'm

saying.. 

[Z Hockey]

40 minutes ago, Kazmanian Devil said:

in the ECHL, yes

Vey does have what it takes to be a 60 point guy in the NHL. Ever since he was waived and then re-called he's looked pretty decent.

[ForsbergTheGreat]

Until Sedin is gone, why do need another play making center. 

In the draft you just take the best players available, 

 

But just for argument sake, lets take a look at the last cup winnings

 

CHI (toews)

LA (kopitar)

CHI (toews)

LA (kopitar)

BOS (Bergeron)

CHI (toews)

PIT (crosby)

DET (datyuk)

ANA (getzlaf)

 

 

Outside of Crosby, that's a lot of 2 way, Selke winning, both ends of the ice centers. 

[Z Hockey]

1 hour ago, Junkyard Dog said:

Skilled players can make the jump early due to their natural offensive talent.

 

Two-way/Power forwards usually take more time to develop.

And where are all our mostly skill players

besides Baertschi, McCann, Vey, and maybe Granlund & Etem.

We never draft them and when we do we trade them or let them walk. I'm talking

forwards and D men.

(Shinkaruk, Schroeder, Corrado, Forsling)

[Z Hockey]

1 hour ago, terrible.dee said:

Vey has what it takes to be a 60+ pt. forward

 

In the 80's he'd already be there

 

But it's not really the Canucks who are to blame, the entire league has become obsessed with the item of the player who does EVERYTHING

 

And in doing this  all players, in their quest top be all things to all coaches, have begun to all look the same,

 

Back in the day you had tough guys offensive guys defensive guys ect ect. if you were good at one thing, that was good enough

 

Now EVERYONE has to be a defensive specialist, a shot blocker, a play maker, a piece of "Team toughness" because if they don't they don't play

 

If Brett Hull was coming up today, he would NEVER see NHL ice  "Has to work on his skating and defensive game"

 

Gretzky? "Needs to work on his skating on put on about 20 lbs of muscle"

 

Luc Robatille? HAHAHA with his defensive game and skating he never would have made the AHL

 

Today's superstars are the coaches, the league has been turned over to them

I get what you're saying but the way your talking about Gretzky, B.Hull, and Robatille is a bit crazy...  There is one dimensional guys around.

 

Nicklas Backstrom is pretty much a

playmaker who's good for 80-100 points. Not much else. 

 

Rob Scuderi is still in the NHL and all he can do is be a shutdown D man.

 

Zac Rinaldo can only hit, grind, and fight.

 

 

[Warhippy]

Agreed with OP

 

Need more offensive players

 

That way we have assets to trade for more 2 way players 

[TimberWolf]

8 minutes ago, Warhippy said:

Agreed with OP

 

Need more offensive players

 

That way we have assets to trade for more 2 way players 

 

Completely unprecedented in the history of the current regime. 

[Junkyard Dog]

1 hour ago, Z Hockey said:

And where are all our mostly skill players

besides Baertschi, McCann, Vey, and maybe Granlund & Etem.

We never draft them and when we do we trade them or let them walk. I'm talking

forwards and D men.

(Shinkaruk, Schroeder, Corrado, Forsling)

We can draft them later in our rebuild.

[Z Hockey]

17 minutes ago, Junkyard Dog said:

We can draft them later in our rebuild.

Sounds good, just don't trade them without giving them a chance eh?

 

[Junkyard Dog]

16 minutes ago, Z Hockey said:

Sounds good, just don't trade them without giving them a chance eh?

 

 

 

Schroeder is worthless. 

 

Forsling was traded for Clendening which looked good at the time then and Forsling hasn't even played 1 game in NHL, Clendening may end up contributing in the NHL more than Forsling. 

 

Hutton outplayed Corrado so Corrado had to go, he is at probably going to amount to a top 6 D at best. Seems to only be getting top 6 D minutes in Toronto. 3 rookies made the team so we needed to make cuts in order to meet the roster limit. He'd still be in the organization if Gillis never burned a year of his ELC.

 

Shink would of never got the opportunity he is getting in Calgary here for years. He needs to be in the top 6 with skilled players and he wouldn't get that opportunity here with Sven and Daniel here.

 

It is fine though. We can draft more offensively skilled players that will be ready to replace Daniel and Hank when they are gone. I also think Benning is capable of drafting or trading for quality defense prospects.