The Importance of Internal Competition and Leadership

[JibberishJones]

With the season coming to an end there are a lot of question marks we will soon have answers for.

Stamkos? Matthews? Burrows? Hamhuis? Julien? Crawford?

My head spins with ideas of what this team could look like next season, what might happen with personnel, coaching staff, prospects etc. -- it's a fun time of year for me because I love the business side of the game just as much as the on-ice side of the game -- OK, maybe slightly less than the on-ice side...

 

With so many question marks, decisions to be made, and armchair GMs -- I thought I would bring to light something a lot of people forget about when looking at the draft and beyond -- the importance of competition and leadership-by-example.

 

Hamhuis and Burrows should both be here next year for similar, and unique reasons. Both players are very important to the mental state of this franchise, the development of our youth, the search for identity, leadership, and internal competition. 

 

Internal competition is something we tend to forget about in Vancouver - I am guilty of this as well.

 

We seem to forget that by gifting young-guns roster spots for PR and developmental reasons, we are teaching them that their draft position and junior play = free NHL roster spot (depending on coach/player/system). This is not the case in every situation, I respect that, but this has been proven to cause long-term problems (i.e. Edmonton and others). We need players like Cassels, Boeser, Brisbois, Subban, McCann, Virtanen (etc.) to all be constantly elevating their game to hold their dream job. We can not teach them that youth = roster spot. 

You NEED to have veterans on your club pushing for jobs, rubbing shoulders with young players, and helping them build an identity for this franchise. Without internal competition we will never build a dynasty here, we won't have a system of players used to competing against each other, and it will be increasingly hard to teach respect to our prospects.

 

You also need vets to keep your other, more valuable veterans happy -- I am family friends with the Virtanen family and Jake constantly mentions how the young guys and the vets don't have a lot in common away from the rink (older guys have families, younger guys don't even have girlfriends) -- this MUST go both ways, and it MUST get annoying for older players to not have help when leading a group by example.

 

Jake also mentions how much it would suck to play for a team like EDM with no leadership, proven best practices, or guidance on and off the ice. On several occasions he has mentioned Hamhuis and Burrows by name when talking about the guys who have made a big impact on his first year, they hold him accountable and you can't have enough of that with a kid like this.

 

Hamhuis needs to be retained to shore up our blue line and to save face after the trade deadline - Benning needs to be establishing credibility wherever he can and this would be a great start. Hamhuis has had a big impact on Tanev, it has apparently been the same for Hutton, and I can only imagine who else Hamhuis has impacted.

Burrows needs to be retained because he is just as much part of this core as the Sedins are. The young guys love Burrows, and he respects the process the Canucks are going through - he LOVES this franchise and you can't just buy that kind of leadership on the free agent market. Bring him back and reevaluate at the trade deadline/next offseason. (I am slightly bias because he has been a personal fav since game #1, sue me.)

 

As for the other question marks listed above, I have NOOOOOOOO idea... It'll be fun.

 

 

Thanks for listening, thoughts?

Jib

 

 

[JibberishJones]

Jeez, sorry for the essay, it's a slow day at work apparently...

[PhillipBlunt]

While I do think that keeping players like the Sedins, Hamhuis, and Hansen on as mentors is a great idea, I also think that moving out some veterans and replacing them with others will be far more beneficial.

 

The now dwindling core has been a part of a great team that almost won it all, but they have also been a part of a fairly mentally fragile core as well. After the 2011 series, which went from uplifting to embarrassing, that core was unable to elevate their game past the first round, and once they were roughed up (even a little) they folded like a lawn chair at my uncle's house.

 

There will be some very enticing names available this summer, some of who have won the Stanley Cup, and possess the ability to contribute immediately. Resting the laurels of the team on the scraps of the previous core is a bad idea, as the young guns will take on that mental fragility and, in turn, will learn how to hate losing, rather than love winning.

 

There needs to be a significant turnover this summer. Holding onto the old core is pointless and revisionist, and a huge waste of time. The young guys already know how to compete in the league and don't really need their hands held anymore.

[aliboy]

You can change up the veterans, it doesn't have to be the same veterans. I agree that the kids shouldn't be playing if they're not ready, but if they are let them play.

 

It's my opinion that WD has loyalty issues bouncing around in his head, rather than just going with the hot players or the hot goalie, like when Miller came back after the All Star break and won 1 game in 5 or 6, while Markstrom sat on the bench after going 5-0-1. Many coaches would just go with the hot player, same with forwards and D. If the coach goes with the hot player it means that performance is going to be rewarded and then we have healthy competition, but if the veterans get position out of loyalty while the hot hand sits, then it's the exact opposite of the concern expressed in the OP.

 

I would argue that pretty much all of the kids had a good season in terms of development including, Virtanen, Horvat, McCann, Etem, Tram and Hutton, doesn't matter if they had the odd rough game. I would like to see Burrows, Higgins, Vrbata, Prust and Hammer all move on now, but we sign some other vets, 1-2 good forwards and 1 D. The vets going forward would be the Twins, Sutter, Hansen, Horvat (now going into 3rd year), Dorsett, plus the player(s) we sign and on D we have Edler, Tanev, Sbisa, plus the one we sign. Considering we have some young players coming along quite nicely that isn't a bad mix.

[Jack Fig]

Fans have had enough time now to pet the stuffing out of their favourite 2011 hugables. 

Time to get back to business and run this like a hungry business instead of a soup kitchen.

[Bruce Boudreau]

6 minutes ago, Jack Fig said:

Fans have had enough time now to pet the stuffing out of their favourite 2011 hugables. 

Time to get back to business and run this like a hungry business instead of a soup kitchen.

I MAC speculating in the Sun today that there is a good chance Burrows gets bought out. Also I would like to add instead of firing Willie.

 

I would like to see a little experience added to the 3 headed inexperienced monster of Willie D, Trader Jim and Big Trev.

 

Don Maloney is available and would be an excellent hire in a Assistant GM advisory role if he could get along with Linden,Weisbrod, and Benning.

 

Somebody is going to hire him and get a great Hockey guy who understands talent evaluation when it comes to trades and drafting.

[Jack Fig]

2 minutes ago, Chip Kelly said:

I MAC speculating in the Sun today that there is a good chance Burrows gets bought out. Also I would like to add instead of firing Willie.

 

I would like to see a little experience added to the 3 headed inexperienced monster of Willie D, Trader Jim and Big Trev.

 

Don Maloney is available and would be an excellent hire in a Assistant GM advisory role if he could get along with Linden,Weisbrod, and Benning.

 

Somebody is going to hire him and get a great Hockey guy who understands talent evaluation when it comes to trades and drafting.

Can't see Maloney consenting to play second fiddle to Jim. He'll get another chance to run his own show. Ottawa should be placing a call in to him.

The Canucks need something in the front office, I'm not sure what at this point though.

[Bruce Boudreau]

1 minute ago, Jack Fig said:

Can't see Maloney consenting to play second fiddle to Jim. He'll get another chance to run his own show. Ottawa should be placing a call in to him.

The Canucks need something in the front office, I'm not sure what at this point though.

I think you are right. Nevertheless this management group could use another veteran Hockey guy to help evaluate talent and alleviate some of the belief in the fanbse that this management team is not experienced enough to make the right moves.

[-AJ-]

I wasn't gonna read your post because it was so long, but the beautiful, organized paragraphs enticed me to do so anyways.

 

All in all, I agree with your thoughts. I think leadership is essential to a rebuilding team, one thing that I think many fans forget in the process of rebuilding. While the Sedins provide some, I think it is valuable to have leadership in various areas, such as on the top 6 (Sedins), the bottom six (Burrows and Dorsett this year) and on defense (Hamhuis). And even though I would like to be rid of Miller soon, I'll admit that his leadership is surely valuable for Markstrom as well, just as Luongo's was for Schneider and Lack.

 

On the competition aspect, I'm a little less certain. Well, i was until I read your post. I too, fall into the trap of wanting to leave spots open for our young players, but too often forget the value of internal competition. I suppose the concern is that some kids tend to thrive when "gifted" positions on the team, when they otherwise may have not thrived. Regardless, I will agree that some internal competition is necessary and is part of Edmonton's problem on top of their lack of solid leadership.

[Oliewud]

Buy out burrows and bring him back for 1 million if hes willing. Need that cap space.

[Aladeen]

21 minutes ago, Oliewud said:

Buy out burrows and bring him back for 1 million if hes willing. Need that cap space.

The team that buys out a player can not sign them.

[Oliewud]

Just now, Aladeen said:

The team that buys out a player can not sign them.

well thats sucks...

[luckylager]

Good read , Jibberish, thanks. I agree with you on the need to have vets in the lineup to act as role models and push the kids compete level, but I'm not nearly as sentimental as you. 

 

I don't see JB really veering from the "winning environment" mantra and if he can upgrade on Hammer or Burr, I hope he does. I love both those guys and what they've given as Canucks, they both care and compete hard, but I like winning more than I like having feelings.

 

 

 

 

 

[kingofsurrey]

Canucks are not some kind of a charity case Retirement HOME  for declining in skills vets. 

Time to start running this NHL club as a business.  Buy low and sell high is how most successful business's  function.

 

Time for Trader Jim to put on his big boy PANTS   and do his job. 

 

Thanks for the memories Burrows , Hansen, and Hamhuis.   We made the mistake of holding on to these assets too long and missed out on exchanging them for appreciating assets / younger players. Time  for Trader Jim to admit his poor managing and clear these declining assets off the books.  Hopefully  Hansen can at least be moved for something.   We will not win the cup next year so we need to be gearing up to win in 2020 . 

 

Time for our management to start making the hard decisions and keep emotions ( 2011 success ) out of their decision making. 

[Guest]

2 hours ago, JibberishJones said:

 

We seem to forget that by gifting young-guns roster spots for PR and developmental reasons, we are teaching them that their draft position and junior play = free NHL roster spot...

...We need players like Cassels, Boeser, Brisbois, Subban, McCann, Virtanen (etc.) to all be constantly elevating their game to hold their dream job. We can not teach them that youth = roster spot.... 

...Without internal competition we will never build a dynasty here, we won't have a system of players used to competing against each other, and it will be increasingly hard to teach respect to our prospects.

 

... it MUST get annoying for older players to not have help when leading a group by example.

 

Jake also mentions how much it would suck to play for a team like EDM with no leadership, proven best practices, or guidance on and off the ice. On several occasions he has mentioned Hamhuis and Burrows by name when talking about the guys who have made a big impact on his first year, they hold him accountable and you can't have enough of that with a kid like this.

 

 

Jib, I highlighted parts of your post that really stuck with me.  These are points that the Sedins have eluded to this year, and that other great players throughout NHL history have talked about.  

 

I think that a lot of posters didn't ready your full comment, but in short these are precisely the reasons why I believe that we have to make an offer to both Hamhuis and Burrows.  

 

Our average age dipped down to 26.45 years old, which would be the youngest team in the league.  We are going to let Higgings, Bartkowski and Vrbata go so that average will go down even further.  We definitely need to try and hold onto Hammer and Burr.

 

 

[Crabcakes]

3 hours ago, JibberishJones said:

 

We seem to forget that by gifting young-guns roster spots for PR and developmental reasons, we are teaching them that their draft position and junior play = free NHL roster spot (depending on coach/player/system). This is not the case in every situation, I respect that, but this has been proven to cause long-term problems (i.e. Edmonton and others). We need players like Cassels, Boeser, Brisbois, Subban, McCann, Virtanen (etc.) to all be constantly elevating their game to hold their dream job. We can not teach them that youth = roster spot. 

You NEED to have veterans on your club pushing for jobs, rubbing shoulders with young players, and helping them build an identity for this franchise. Without internal competition we will never build a dynasty here, we won't have a system of players used to competing against each other, and it will be increasingly hard to teach respect to our prospects.

 

 

 

 

Good post.  Totally agree with thesis.  Thanks for insight on Virtanen's thoughts.  Interesting.

 

Leadership - need it clearly

Internal Competition = earning spots

 

You speak of young guns being gifted roster spots and I agree that it is important to avoid this.  How about putting the shoe on the other foot.  A veteran needs to bring 2 important things:  Leadership AND be able to play at a level that young players can aspire to.  The young guy needs to try to play as well as the vet and they can see what the vet does to prepare himself to play at the high level that he does.

 

I think that Linden and Benning need to consider if a veteran fulfills both these things when deciding whether to invite him back. 

 

Burrows has all the passion and great leadership but his on ice performance slid this past year.  Can they in good conscience bring him back?  I love the man but.....

 

Hamhuis I think still brings both.  After coming back from injury we saw some of his best hockey.

 

The Sedins and Hansen still have it.

 

Another poster said that there is no reason why you can't bring in veterans as free agents etc.  I would agree with that.  There would be an adjustment period of course but long term, they could be of help.

 

 

[kingofsurrey]

Henrik Sedin had his worst plus/minus this season since his rookie year......

Is this because of such a weak set of D on our club ?  

 

How much gas does a  35 yr old  Henrik have left in the tank is the question.....

 

When do you think we will see a new  1 C on the Canucks ? 

[rizzuto&hatoum]

5 hours ago, kingofsurrey said:

Henrik Sedin had his worst plus/minus this season since his rookie year......

Is this because of such a weak set of D on our club ?  

 

How much gas does a  35 yr old  Henrik have left in the tank is the question.....

 

When do you think we will see a new  1 C on the Canucks ? 

Why can't he pull a Joe Thornton-lite next year? Big Joe is one year older than Henrik but he finished 4th in scoring this year.

[clam linguine]

4 hours ago, kingofsurrey said:

Henrik Sedin had his worst plus/minus this season since his rookie year......

Is this because of such a weak set of D on our club ?  

 

How much gas does a  35 yr old  Henrik have left in the tank is the question.....

 

When do you think we will see a new  1 C on the Canucks ? 

The twins are like aged vampires needing to feed on the most robust winger available.  Their gas tanks look empty, especially in OT last game.   To be honest though, with the suitable wingers, I could see Horvat as a #1 center ..but not yet.

 

 

[oldnews]

6 hours ago, kingofsurrey said:

Canucks are not some kind of a charity case Retirement HOME  for declining in skills vets. 

Time to start running this NHL club as a business.  Buy low and sell high is how most successful business's  function.

 

Time for Trader Jim to put on his big boy PANTS   and do his job. 

 

Thanks for the memories Burrows , Hansen, and Hamhuis.   We made the mistake of holding on to these assets too long and missed out on exchanging them for appreciating assets / younger players.

Derp.  Hansen's value has never been higher.  If you moved him before, you'd have missed out on his appreciating value ironically.  

 

Thanks for the reductive, simplistic advice to "Trader Jim", but time for you to put your reality glasses on.  It aint as simple as repeating a 'buy low sell high' slogan.