Blömqvist Posted April 12, 2016 Share Posted April 12, 2016 PHI: Baertschi, a 2016 2nd [~33rd overall pick], and a 2017 2nd VAN: Provorov Not sure if value is enough, or if we would have to include a 2017 1st instead of the pair of 2nd rounders. Or maybe add Subban so they have a RHD. Thoughts? -- Voracek - Giroux - Simmonds Baertschi - Couturier - Schenn -- Future Canucks. Virtanen - Horvat - *Puljujarvi* Rodin? - McCann - Boeser Provorov - Tryamkin Hutton - Tanev Demko Markstrom Philadelphia has a very strong stable of defense prospects. Of the notable names are Gostisbehere, Sanheim, Provorov, Morin, and Hagg. Organizationally, they are needing a young left-wing with the potential to be a top-6 forward, particularly one who can grow alongside Couturier and Schenn. Furthermore, having made the playoffs this year, this young left-wing would have to be able to step right in and contribute to the top-9 forward group right away. Enter Sven Baertschi. A bit of a reclamation project, Baertschi has turned heads this season and looks to be back on track to becoming a top-line scorer with good defense, worthy of his 13th overall pick taken a few years back. After having a horrid start to the season, and many claiming we wasted a pick, Baertschi turned it around and scored 21 points and the last 42 games played. Statistically, this is better then Philadelphia's current left wing, Raffl, who is 27 years old and scored at a rate of 0.38 points per game, good for 31 points in 82 games. Baertschi fits right into Couturier and Schenn's age group, and could step right onto their second line. His playmaking abilities could elevate Couturier and Schenn's games. With the abundance of good defense prospects that Philadelphia has, Vancouver would be able to trade for a top-flight defenseman. Gostisbehere is sure to be an untouchable player with the insane rookie season he had. Morin and Hagg haven't really developed, and Vancouver wouldn't risk another reclamation project for someone they successfully and very well saved and developed. That leaves Sanheim and Provorov. Sanheim, who was a sleeper pick in the 2014 draft, is one of if not the best defenseman playing in all of junior hockey. Initially thought of as only a mobile defensive defenseman, this season he scored 68 points in 52 games in the WHL. He looks to be a very good top-pairing defenseman at least, if not a franchise guy. Which leaves us with Ivan Provorov. The Russian defenseman was claimed "NHL-ready" by several scouts last year, but the Flyers chose to return him to his junior team in the WHL. This season, his draft+1 year, Provorov scored 73 points in 62 games, including 21 goals and was a whopping plus 64 in the +/- category. Provorov has refined his game and looks to be a top-pair defenseman, although the Russian factor might scare away Philadelphia. Vancouver would have more interest in Provorov than Sanheim anyways, as we would have an insane Russian KGB defense pairing of Provorov and Tryamkin. For the case of depleting our LW depth, take note that our future core forward group is 20 years old or younger. Also take into account that forwards develop faster than defenseman, so we could conceivably pick a LW this year or next year and still have him develop alongside our core group. Otherwise, we have signed SHL MVP Anton Rodin, who can play both LW and RW, and can even still pickup UFA in free agency. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Toews Posted April 12, 2016 Share Posted April 12, 2016 This won't happen. Provorov is the top D prospect in the world right now. Imo he is better than anyone in this draft and the Flyers were actually looking to move up to draft him. It speaks to how much they value him. I don't think they would do it even if it was Baerstchi + non lottery 2016 1st. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thejazz97 Posted April 12, 2016 Share Posted April 12, 2016 That would be great; if only we had another top 6 guy to replace Baertschi with... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alflives Posted April 12, 2016 Share Posted April 12, 2016 19 minutes ago, thejazz97 said: That would be great; if only we had another top 6 guy to replace Baertschi with... That's saying Baer is a top six player. Has he proven (and he's what 23 now?) to be a top six player? Alf thinks NO he has not. Alf likes Baer, but he should be still playing a more limited role on the third line. Baer, Horvat, Virtanen as a third line. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thejazz97 Posted April 12, 2016 Share Posted April 12, 2016 4 minutes ago, Alflives said: That's saying Baer is a top six player. Has he proven (and he's what 23 now?) to be a top six player? Alf thinks NO he has not. Alf likes Baer, but he should be still playing a more limited role on the third line. Baer, Horvat, Virtanen as a third line. A couple of things: - He's the best we have on the left side other than Sedin. - He just played the most NHL games of his career this season, setting career highs - He's only 23 - Pro-rated 33 points in your first year is not bad, especially when you've gone through a cold streak for half the year Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blue Jay 22 Posted April 12, 2016 Share Posted April 12, 2016 Provorov is a special player. He's the best of the Flyers 10,000 D prospects. I would say there is a 99% certainty that he won't be traded. That being said, suppose we did not land the 1st overall pick and ended up at #2 or #3: Would you trade 1 of the Finns for Provorov? I think I would, and I think the Flyers would consider it too. Either one of the Finns would be their best forward prospect since Giroux. Don't know if they would accept, but they would definitely think about it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alflives Posted April 12, 2016 Share Posted April 12, 2016 8 minutes ago, thejazz97 said: A couple of things: - He's the best we have on the left side other than Sedin. - He just played the most NHL games of his career this season, setting career highs - He's only 23 - Pro-rated 33 points in your first year is not bad, especially when you've gone through a cold streak for half the year He is not consistent enough to be a top six. He needs to still develop. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thejazz97 Posted April 12, 2016 Share Posted April 12, 2016 2 minutes ago, Alflives said: He is not consistent enough to be a top six. He needs to still develop. He's not going to develop into the player he needs to be on the 3rd line. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alflives Posted April 12, 2016 Share Posted April 12, 2016 6 minutes ago, thejazz97 said: He's not going to develop into the player he needs to be on the 3rd line. So you agree? He plays with Bo and Jake on a third line? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thejazz97 Posted April 12, 2016 Share Posted April 12, 2016 Just now, Alflives said: So you agree? He plays with Bo and Jake on a third line? I think he plays with Sutter/Horvat and Laine/Poolparty/Rodin/Virt on the 2nd line next year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
D-Money Posted April 12, 2016 Share Posted April 12, 2016 24 minutes ago, Blue Jay 22 said: Provorov is a special player. He's the best of the Flyers 10,000 D prospects. I would say there is a 99% certainty that he won't be traded. That being said, suppose we did not land the 1st overall pick and ended up at #2 or #3: Would you trade 1 of the Finns for Provorov? I think I would, and I think the Flyers would consider it too. Either one of the Finns would be their best forward prospect since Giroux. Don't know if they would accept, but they would definitely think about it. That's an interesting thought. I'd certainly consider #2/3 for Provorov and Philly's 1st (unless they go deep, 18th overall). And maybe with Ghost, Sanheim, and Morin still in the fold (all 4 LHDs), Philly might too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kazmanian Devil Posted April 12, 2016 Share Posted April 12, 2016 Yes! Then Shinkaruk can slot in to Baertschi's spot on the 2nd line! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jägermeister Posted April 12, 2016 Share Posted April 12, 2016 2 minutes ago, Kazmanian Devil said: Yes! Then Shinkaruk can slot in to Baertschi's spot on the 2nd line! Shinkaruk - Schroeder - Kassian WCE 2.0 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Z Hockey Posted April 12, 2016 Share Posted April 12, 2016 Serious underrating of Baertschi on here, have people even paid attention to his stick speed or how quick his hands are even when he's in tight and on his outside edges in the corners. Baertschi is huge to the future of our top six, we overpay in this deal, Baertschi and MORE 2nd & 3rd round picks given up for an unproven Provorov.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blue Jay 22 Posted April 12, 2016 Share Posted April 12, 2016 1 hour ago, Z Hockey said: Serious underrating of Baertschi on here, have people even paid attention to his stick speed or how quick his hands are even when he's in tight and on his outside edges in the corners. Baertschi is huge to the future of our top six, we overpay in this deal, Baertschi and MORE 2nd & 3rd round picks given up for an unproven Provorov.... If everyone underrates Baertschi, then maybe your the one overrating him.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ice orca Posted April 12, 2016 Share Posted April 12, 2016 3 hours ago, Jägermeister said: Shinkaruk - Schroeder - Kassian WCE 2.0 Granlund Vey Etem......Legion of doom. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blömqvist Posted April 13, 2016 Author Share Posted April 13, 2016 7 hours ago, Toews said: This won't happen. Provorov is the top D prospect in the world right now. Imo he is better than anyone in this draft and the Flyers were actually looking to move up to draft him. It speaks to how much they value him. I don't think they would do it even if it was Baerstchi + non lottery 2016 1st. 6 hours ago, Blue Jay 22 said: Provorov is a special player. He's the best of the Flyers 10,000 D prospects. I would say there is a 99% certainty that he won't be traded. That being said, suppose we did not land the 1st overall pick and ended up at #2 or #3: Would you trade 1 of the Finns for Provorov? I think I would, and I think the Flyers would consider it too. Either one of the Finns would be their best forward prospect since Giroux. Don't know if they would accept, but they would definitely think about it. Wow, I knew Provorov was really good but dang is he valued that much by the Flyers? Especially when they have an abundance of LHD? But I guess there would be other offers for him. Any other defense prospect or young player that we could try and dangle Baertschi plus to? Maybe Gudbranson considering they have Ekblad as their #1 and Petrovic behind him on the third pairing? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alflives Posted April 13, 2016 Share Posted April 13, 2016 7 hours ago, Blue Jay 22 said: Provorov is a special player. He's the best of the Flyers 10,000 D prospects. I would say there is a 99% certainty that he won't be traded. That being said, suppose we did not land the 1st overall pick and ended up at #2 or #3: Would you trade 1 of the Finns for Provorov? I think I would, and I think the Flyers would consider it too. Either one of the Finns would be their best forward prospect since Giroux. Don't know if they would accept, but they would definitely think about it. Provorov is not nearly the prospect Sergachev is. Sergachev is as skilled, bigger, and MEAN. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
goblix Posted April 13, 2016 Share Posted April 13, 2016 7 hours ago, Blue Jay 22 said: Provorov is a special player. He's the best of the Flyers 10,000 D prospects. I would say there is a 99% certainty that he won't be traded. That being said, suppose we did not land the 1st overall pick and ended up at #2 or #3: Would you trade 1 of the Finns for Provorov? I think I would, and I think the Flyers would consider it too. Either one of the Finns would be their best forward prospect since Giroux. Don't know if they would accept, but they would definitely think about it. Bleh seriously, Provorov had a great year but to say he'd be worth trading for either of the Finns is ridiculous... Maybe Provorov will be better... you never know things happen but I'll take a great prospect playing in a mans league making a difference in games and putting up great points (Matthews, Laine, Puljujarvi) vs a 19 year old competing against 16-20 year olds and doing similar things... That said this is the part I agree with you in that Philly won't trade Provorov as he shows too much promise. It's not often that prospects trending upwards get traded for anything (other than pieces in rental acquisitions) There are only a few reasons why any raw prospect would be traded: Rentals for playoff push Player is disgruntled with the organization and requests to move on... (Drouin // Baertschi) The organization doesn't believe in the prospect and wants to move him along (Shinkaruk) I was going to add depth of position as a factor but honestly most teams will just let them groom and find a spot for the kid eventually... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Z Hockey Posted April 13, 2016 Share Posted April 13, 2016 4 hours ago, Blue Jay 22 said: If everyone underrates Baertschi, then maybe your the one overrating him.... Ok buddy. You can think that, Benning agrees with me. Benning said when he scouted him in Portland that he was the most skilled Junior player in North America. He has Patrik Elias-esque upside. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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