Fact Fem - w/ CHS

[Dral]

Well come on - I dare you guys to comment on any of the Q&A... brilliant stuff...

[falcon45ca]

6 hours ago, Dral said:

Feminism Today

 

 

So I'm posting this in WN in the hopes that within 12 hours it will be buried away from the craziness of the rest of CDC... Some of the best intellectual and respectful conversations I've ever had on this forum have been here (and I'm just as guilty of radical/trolling/spewing in OT and G as the next person)...

 

Lets have a light-hearted, but real, conversation about an important subject... and despite my obvious intoxication, I'll still solemnly swear to put aside my facetiousness and lets talk

 

 

 

To start things off, here's a video from 'Base Mom', Christina Hoff Summers - feminist, libertarian and all around cool chick.... WN, don't let me down.

 

 

 

 

Have you heard of CHS?

Do you disagree with anything she says?

Would you bang her? (Ok, sorry, I promised I wouldn't be facetious - nvm this)

How do you honestly feel about equality today, in western society?

Well she's factually wrong on "Feminist Myth #3" regarding her "less than one half of one percent", here's an excerpt from that report she's talking about: 

 

The new hospital study showed that approximately 
243,000 people (17 percent) were treated for injuries 
inflicted by someone with whom they had an intimate 
relationship--a spouse, former spouse, boyfriend, 
girlfriend or former boyfriend or girlfriend.  This was 
four times higher than the estimates of the number of such
crime victims treated in hospital emergency rooms as 
measured by BJS's National Crime Victimization Survey, 
one of the nation's principal sources of crime victim data.  
The following chart reflects the relationship between the 
emergency department patients and the alleged offenders by gender:

  Alleged offender             Male patient  Female patient 

  Spouse or former spouse          1.8%         15.9%
  Other relative                   6.6           9.5
  Boyfriend or girlfriend          2.7          20.9
  Other friend                    16.5          15.5
  Other acquaintance               8.7           4.9
  Stranger                        28.9          14.0
  Not reported                    34.8          19.3

I can see why feminist used this data to say that "22-35% of women treated in emergency rooms is from domestic abuse,  because that's the combined average of women of the 17% total, but it actually represents 5-6% of the total number of Emergency Room treatments for violence related injuries.

 

So she's correct in saying the data is being interpreted wrong, but she's wrong when she claims that domestic abuse against women accounts for less than half of one percent.

[Dral]

14 minutes ago, falcon45ca said:

Well she's factually wrong on "Feminist Myth #3" regarding her "less than one half of one percent", here's an excerpt from that report she's talking about: 

 

The new hospital study showed that approximately 
243,000 people (17 percent) were treated for injuries 
inflicted by someone with whom they had an intimate 
relationship--a spouse, former spouse, boyfriend, 
girlfriend or former boyfriend or girlfriend.  This was 
four times higher than the estimates of the number of such
crime victims treated in hospital emergency rooms as 
measured by BJS's National Crime Victimization Survey, 
one of the nation's principal sources of crime victim data.  
The following chart reflects the relationship between the 
emergency department patients and the alleged offenders by gender:

  Alleged offender             Male patient  Female patient 

  Spouse or former spouse          1.8%         15.9%
  Other relative                   6.6           9.5
  Boyfriend or girlfriend          2.7          20.9
  Other friend                    16.5          15.5
  Other acquaintance               8.7           4.9
  Stranger                        28.9          14.0
  Not reported                    34.8          19.3

I can see why feminist used this data to say that "22-35% of women treated in emergency rooms is from domestic abuse,  because that's the combined average of women of the 17% total, but it actually represents 5-6% of the total number of Emergency Room treatments for violence related injuries.

 

So she's correct in saying the data is being interpreted wrong, but she's wrong when she claims that domestic abuse against women accounts for less than half of one percent.

So the study shows a break down of those who were treated for injuries from someone who they had an intimate encounter with... and she said "ALL emergency room" encounters with... so extrapolate the "all" ER into "intimate" ER" and then do the numbers line up? 

[falcon45ca]

9 minutes ago, Dral said:

So the study shows a break down of those who were treated for injuries from someone who they had an intimate encounter with... and she said "ALL emergency room" encounters with... so extrapolate the "all" ER into "intimate" ER" and then do the numbers line up? 

Well, if she's talking about ALL ER visits, when the report she cites is all violence related ER visits, then she's being disingenuous. The article she mentions is about violence related visits, 17% of which are committed by intimates. 22-35% of those are women abused by their husband/boyfriend.

 

 

 

 

 

[Dral]

31 minutes ago, falcon45ca said:

Well, if she's talking about ALL ER visits, when the report she cites is all violence related ER visits, then she's being disingenuous. The article she mentions is about violence related visits, 17% of which are committed by intimates. 22-35% of those are women abused by their husband/boyfriend.

 

 

 

 

 

re-listen to the context... meh... maybe I'm wrong... it didn't sound disingenuious to me...

[falcon45ca]

6 minutes ago, Dral said:

re-listen to the context... meh... maybe I'm wrong... it didn't sound disingenuious to me...

I think it's misleading, she's already correct when she says that feminist's have misrepresented the data. When she talks about "less than half a percent" she's talking about different statistics and she's as guilty as the feminists she decries.

[Dral]

1 minute ago, falcon45ca said:

I think it's misleading, she's already correct when she says that feminist's have misrepresented the data. When she talks about "less than half a percent" she's talking about different statistics and she's as guilty as the feminists she decries.

Fair enough...

 

Perhaps she didn't express herself properly... tough to say an individual took something in the wrong way, objectively speaking... because that's kinda the point in the end...there's a problem with the way we communicate our intentions of our percieved reality

 

watch the last vid and skip forward to the the Q&A part...they mention Trump and Trudeau... pretty interesting... thoughts on that?

[falcon45ca]

6 minutes ago, Dral said:

Fair enough...

 

Perhaps she didn't express herself properly... tough to say an individual took something in the wrong way, objectively speaking... because that's kinda the point in the end...there's a problem with the way we communicate our intentions of our percieved reality

 

watch the last vid and skip forward to the the Q&A part...they mention Trump and Trudeau... pretty interesting... thoughts on that?

Is that the 2 hour vid? Do you have a time index I can skip to for those parts? Otherwise it might take me awhile!

[Dral]

1 minute ago, falcon45ca said:

Is that the 2 hour vid? Do you have a time index I can skip to for those parts? Otherwise it might take me awhile!

like 45 mins or so I think... it's when they are both sitting down...

[falcon45ca]

20 minutes ago, Dral said:

like 45 mins or so I think... it's when they are both sitting down...

It's kind of like her point that I researched, there's some truth in what they talk about, but there's a lot of stuff not being said or not accurately represented. 

 

For instance, the discussion on "rape culture on campus"...are some men getting falsely accused of sexual assault? Sure, we all saw that with the Rolling Stone article about the University of Virginia. But for every instance of false accusation there's hundreds of sexual assaults against women. Women have a lot more to fear from men than men do from women.

[ForsbergTheGreat]

But is that considered rape culture?  The term is what bothers me so much,  In Canada we have Spanish speaking minority but does that mean that Canada is a Spanish culture?  No.  If we have a minority of women that experience sexual assaults how do we come to the conclusion that we live in a rape culture?  On top of that, we don’t reward rape,  rape and sexual assault are bad and is a punishable crime, (depending on your definitions, some women consider cat calling sexual assault which isn’t punishable).  Saying we live in rape culture is almost disrespectful to the women in third world cultures that do live in fear.  Is cat calling comparable to gang rape?

 

My biggest concern with modern feminism is they constantly play the victim card, bundled up and masked as a fight for equality.  It’s gone beyond from, women can do everything men can do, to women can do everything better than men, to women would be better off without men.   Feminism used to fight for equality in quality of life, now we are concerned about the colors emojis are or that super hero t-shirts are in the boys section.    

 

The equality fight then spills from basic human rights into every area of our lives.  In business equality in not a good thing.  It prevents competition, it prevents efficiency, it down grades quality of life.  I remember reading a report with the headline about is America racist, and it then went on to stay the differences in annual pay between blacks, Hispanics and with men in the USA.  How the white families on average earned 5x the annual income.  But the issue with the report is that is state difference and labels the reasoning as racism, when if you actually start to look into reasoning’s such as, education, crime rates, single parent households, job hours worked, welfare claimed, you start to build an understanding that it’s not racism it’s difference between environment chosen by that culture and the same can be said about the 77 cent pay gap between men and women, is not sexism is . 

 

 

 

/rant

[Nuxfanabroad]

5 hours ago, Dral said:

 

so... why don't we need to talk about these things? How old are you...?

Hey, I plussed you, intending to quote!..No, we MUSTN'T talk about any topic that ain't 'manly', y'know?! :^)

 

Now, I'm guessin you're unfamiliar with that Gloria Steinem quote. As for age, unfortunately I'm old enough to remember such things...

[Höglander87]

Feminists make me sick

[Flume]

This thread was better when people weren't sober. 

[Twilight Sparkle]

10 minutes ago, Flume said:

This thread was better when people weren't sober. 

a night talking about pee and farts. we havnt had one of these in a hwile!