-AJ- Posted September 4, 2020 Share Posted September 4, 2020 22 minutes ago, gurn said: I signed Stecher for $3 mill for 2 years on Cap Friendly, I hope JB can do something similar. Too much imo. I love Stech, but I wouldn't give him any more than $2.5M and would lean closer to $2M. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Provost Posted September 4, 2020 Share Posted September 4, 2020 50 minutes ago, BPA said: Would you think he would accept a $2M x 4yr deal? No raise but gives him term at an acceptable dollar amount for a 6th D. Probably too much for a 7th-8th D. Allows Canucks to bring in our young RHD prospects to slot in as depth and rotate in/out until they prove they deserve to be in permanently. I think it might be a little low, but the term I think is the key here. He wants to be a Canuck so less AAV and more term is better than a short term deal for both parties. 4x $2.5-2.75 is a pretty fair deal for a guy that is a 3rd pairing D who can also play further up in the lineup successfully. I don't know that his agent is going to see it that way though. He has a client that keeps getting pushed down the lineup at the start of every season only to work his way up by being capable and reliable. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gurn Posted September 4, 2020 Share Posted September 4, 2020 4 minutes ago, -AJ- said: Too much imo. I love Stech, but I wouldn't give him any more than $2.5M and would lean closer to $2M. He's at $2,325,000 now and imo has proven his worth this off season, $2.5 would be great, but I doubt it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BPA Posted September 4, 2020 Share Posted September 4, 2020 2 minutes ago, Provost said: I think it might be a little low, but the term I think is the key here. He wants to be a Canuck so less AAV and more term is better than a short term deal for both parties. 4x $2.5-2.75 is a pretty fair deal for a guy that is a 3rd pairing D who can also play further up in the lineup successfully. I don't know that his agent is going to see it that way though. He has a client that keeps getting pushed down the lineup at the start of every season only to work his way up by being capable and reliable. But its a flat cap for the next couple of years. So I think Canucks have leverage to pull it off. Doubt Stecher will get your numbers in the open market. Look what happened with what's his name ... Hutton. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Provost Posted September 4, 2020 Share Posted September 4, 2020 Just now, BPA said: But its a flat cap for the next couple of years. So I think Canucks have leverage to pull it off. Doubt Stecher will get your numbers in the open market. Look what happened with what's his name ... Hutton. Except when Hutton was a true 3rd pairing guy and when he was pushed higher in the lineup he got buried by every metric and Stecher carried him as a partner. Stecher has played up to 30 minutes a game and has kept posting solid numbers. He has the best +/- on the team this playoffs while getting very hard matchups paired with Edler, so even recency bias works in his favour. Because of his size, he isn't going to get full market value for his contribution... but there are a lot of teams who need defensive help, and not a lot of players to provide it. The real question is his arbitration case, not the open market. Does he have a case for $3 million or even more based on his usage over the past few seasons? That is very possible. He isn't a player to walk away from without qualifying him and facing the risk of the arbitration number being too high. We will have to make a deal beforehand or trade his rights. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BPA Posted September 4, 2020 Share Posted September 4, 2020 1 minute ago, Provost said: Except when Hutton was a true 3rd pairing guy and when he was pushed higher in the lineup he got buried by every metric and Stecher carried him as a partner. Stecher has played up to 30 minutes a game and has kept posting solid numbers. He has the best +/- on the team this playoffs while getting very hard matchups paired with Edler, so even recency bias works in his favour. Because of his size, he isn't going to get full market value for his contribution... but there are a lot of teams who need defensive help, and not a lot of players to provide it. The real question is his arbitration case, not the open market. Does he have a case for $3 million or even more based on his usage over the past few seasons? That is very possible. He isn't a player to walk away from without qualifying him and facing the risk of the arbitration number being too high. We will have to make a deal beforehand or trade his rights. That's why I suggested $2M x 4 yrs. Get the deal done. If Stecher wants $3M, I'd walk away. But that's just my opinion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mackcanuck Posted September 4, 2020 Share Posted September 4, 2020 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JM_ Posted September 4, 2020 Share Posted September 4, 2020 2 hours ago, Provost said: Except when Hutton was a true 3rd pairing guy and when he was pushed higher in the lineup he got buried by every metric and Stecher carried him as a partner. Stecher has played up to 30 minutes a game and has kept posting solid numbers. He has the best +/- on the team this playoffs while getting very hard matchups paired with Edler, so even recency bias works in his favour. Because of his size, he isn't going to get full market value for his contribution... but there are a lot of teams who need defensive help, and not a lot of players to provide it. The real question is his arbitration case, not the open market. Does he have a case for $3 million or even more based on his usage over the past few seasons? That is very possible. He isn't a player to walk away from without qualifying him and facing the risk of the arbitration number being too high. We will have to make a deal beforehand or trade his rights. I don't think so looking at the comparables, but even if he does its only for one year and then he's back to dealing with a contract year. I would hope if he's offered a slight raise and some term he'd consider something like 2.5 x 4 years. Take the 10 mil and be very happy about it. But Troy has raised his trade value a lot in this run as well. Hard to say what will happen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Provost Posted September 4, 2020 Share Posted September 4, 2020 28 minutes ago, Robert Long said: I don't think so looking at the comparables, but even if he does its only for one year and then he's back to dealing with a contract year. I would hope if he's offered a slight raise and some term he'd consider something like 2.5 x 4 years. Take the 10 mil and be very happy about it. But Troy has raised his trade value a lot in this run as well. Hard to say what will happen. More than 18:30 average per game says 2nd pairing. Points production, points per 60, +/- all stack up somewhere in the 90-100 range of D. 31 teams and that means he is an average #3D based on a bunch of metrics. #3D make more than $3 million so that certainly isn’t the upper end of possible arbitration awards. I don’t think he holds quite that esteem in the open market, but he has a really good case to make using numbers and comparables in an arbitration. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ilya Mikheyev Posted September 5, 2020 Share Posted September 5, 2020 5 hours ago, Provost said: More than 18:30 average per game says 2nd pairing. Points production, points per 60, +/- all stack up somewhere in the 90-100 range of D. 31 teams and that means he is an average #3D based on a bunch of metrics. #3D make more than $3 million so that certainly isn’t the upper end of possible arbitration awards. I don’t think he holds quite that esteem in the open market, but he has a really good case to make using numbers and comparables in an arbitration. I think he's earned a 9 million/3 year deal (3 AAV) - if GMJB can get a slightly lower cap hit, like 2.65 or 2.75, that'd be a bonus. With COVID things are hard to predict but I hope they keep him around if possible. I get the sense he really wants to bring the cup to B.C. and he showed he had another gear in the playoffs IMO. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
-AJ- Posted September 5, 2020 Share Posted September 5, 2020 Alright, I'm starting to lean towards the idea of giving him more in the ballpark of $2.5M-$3M, but that does make things very tough in the cap situation. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dougieL Posted September 5, 2020 Share Posted September 5, 2020 Love Stecher. What a warrior. Hope he can stay somehow. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BPA Posted September 5, 2020 Share Posted September 5, 2020 Not sure he'll get $3M. He's good at the simple plays and plays with intensity but got man handled in the Blues series. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
N4ZZY Posted September 5, 2020 Share Posted September 5, 2020 I hope troy can remain a Canuck. He's such a warrior. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrCanuck94 Posted September 5, 2020 Share Posted September 5, 2020 He really impressed me against VGK. But we were so outmatched size wise. Emotional decision vs business decision. I'm torn. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
J-P Posted September 5, 2020 Share Posted September 5, 2020 To me it's simple. If you think Stech is 2nd pairing then his raise and cap hit won't be an issue. If like me you think he's a 3rd pairing D then you don't pay close to 3 mil for that if you're building a contender. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Provost Posted September 5, 2020 Share Posted September 5, 2020 (edited) 14 minutes ago, J-P said: To me it's simple. If you think Stech is 2nd pairing then his raise and cap hit won't be an issue. If like me you think he's a 3rd pairing D then you don't pay close to 3 mil for that if you're building a contender. It isn’t as simple as that. We have injuries happen. Even if he was spotted as a 3rd pairing guy, he would almost certainly have long stretches playing higher up in the lineup. He can do that and most 3rd pairing guys can’t. No one in our organization prospect wise has even shown they are NHL calibre yet. Stecher has also played the toughest 5 on 5 minutes and gotten the better of them. He has often been our best D at shot suppression for years now. Under $3 million is a good value for that. True 3rd pairing guys like Benn are worth $2 million... and they get buried when playing against better opposition. To me, if we can’t afford Tanev then we keep Stecher for sure so we aren’t looking for two RD. If we can manage to trade for another top 4D and/or sign Tanev then I am fine with moving on from Stecher. We would be pretty well served in a couple years by having experienced veterans like Edler and Tanev as our 3rd pairing on a series of value 1 year contracts... but that presupposes we get bodies capable of taking those minutes from them and we haven’t managed that yet. Edited September 5, 2020 by Provost Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
J-P Posted September 5, 2020 Share Posted September 5, 2020 2 minutes ago, Provost said: It isn’t as simple as that. We have injuries happen. Even if he was spotted as a 3rd pairing guy, he would almost certainly have long stretches playing higher up in the lineup. He can do that and most 3rd liners can’t. No one in our organization prospect wise has even shown they are NHL calibre yet. Stecher has also played the toughest 5 on 5 minutes and gotten the better of them. He has often been our best D at shot suppression for years now. To me, if we can’t afford Tanev then we keep Stecher for sure so we aren’t looking for two RD. If we can manage to trade for another top 4D and/or sign Tanev then I am fine with moving on from Stecher. We would be pretty well served in a couple years by having experienced veterans like Edler and Tanev as our 3rd pairing on a series of value 1 year contracts... but that presupposes we get bodies capable of taking those minutes from them and we haven’t managed that yet. I respect your opinion and being able to move up when injuries occur is a valid point but to me a player with stecher's ability should be 3rd pairing and below 2 mil and still be able to play 2nd pairing on occasion if needed. Of course I love him like biega etc but you don't win by being sentimental. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JM_ Posted September 5, 2020 Share Posted September 5, 2020 16 hours ago, Provost said: More than 18:30 average per game says 2nd pairing. Points production, points per 60, +/- all stack up somewhere in the 90-100 range of D. 31 teams and that means he is an average #3D based on a bunch of metrics. #3D make more than $3 million so that certainly isn’t the upper end of possible arbitration awards. I don’t think he holds quite that esteem in the open market, but he has a really good case to make using numbers and comparables in an arbitration. hmm.... I think that makes a decent case for a really good bottom pairing guy since he doesn't bring a physical element but yeah maybe he pushes 3 in a 1 year arbitration deal? I don't see Troy going for the 1 year option unless there's nothing else out there for him. He's really upped his trade potential tho, pretty easy sell to the TO market e.g. after how well he did in the playoffs. His deal also isn't top of the list, we'll have to see where the big chips fall and if Jimbo can pull off some kind of trade that brings in new d depth. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fred65 Posted September 5, 2020 Share Posted September 5, 2020 (edited) 52 minutes ago, Provost said: It isn’t as simple as that. We have injuries happen. Even if he was spotted as a 3rd pairing guy, he would almost certainly have long stretches playing higher up in the lineup. He can do that and most 3rd pairing guys can’t. No one in our organization prospect wise has even shown they are NHL calibre yet. Stecher has also played the toughest 5 on 5 minutes and gotten the better of them. He has often been our best D at shot suppression for years now. Under $3 million is a good value for that. True 3rd pairing guys like Benn are worth $2 million... and they get buried when playing against better opposition. To me, if we can’t afford Tanev then we keep Stecher for sure so we aren’t looking for two RD. If we can manage to trade for another top 4D and/or sign Tanev then I am fine with moving on from Stecher. We would be pretty well served in a couple years by having experienced veterans like Edler and Tanev as our 3rd pairing on a series of value 1 year contracts... but that presupposes we get bodies capable of taking those minutes from them and we haven’t managed that yet. To my way of thinking this not good. You don't want to use an average team to grade Stecher by, you want to compare him with a quality or better team, not an average team. On a better team Stecher is a bottom 6. The idea is to get better not remain static Edited September 5, 2020 by Fred65 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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