Bob Long Posted April 20, 2016 Share Posted April 20, 2016 OK couple of asks as I realize this can be a heated topic: 1) I’d like this to be factual and backed up with numbers/links, not a venting forum for people that dislike Sbsia, so in your replies please use stats or other data to back up the statements, and 2) keep it civil, its all good, just killing time until the draft. So with that in mind I’m backing up each statement with a link. Also, I’ve had to go back to some 2015 stats but given he has improved this year and it’s a shortened year too, so I think that’s acceptable. Looking at Sbisa’s stats, I think a solid case can be made that he is a positive for this team. I’m not saying a star, I’m saying positive. If you judge him on Corsi, he’s terrible. But is that his job? When you look at hits, grabbing up loose pucks, and separating guys from the puck, he’s in some good company. My conclusion: If he continues to improve his positioning, and keeps hitting and taking pucks away, he’s an asset worth keeping. Having said that though I’m willing to be swayed by facts if you got ‘em 1. Hits He’s willing to hit, and hit hard. He’s comparable in total hits to Brent Burns, Doughty, Del Zotto, & OEL. [http://www.foxsports.com/nhl/stats?season=2014&category=DEFENSE&group=1&sort=11&time=0&pos=4&team=0&qual=0&sortOrder=0] 2. Loose pucks Sbisa is better than league average recovering loose pucks, in all zones. [http://sportlogiq.com/2015/09/23/vancouver-canucks-defense-is-the-nhls-most-aggressive-on-loose-pucks/] 3. Defensive zone hits that separate opponents from the puck 11th in the league in this stat in 2015. This is by far Sbisa’s best area. [http://www.vancourier.com/pass-it-to-bulis/the-redemption-of-luca-sbisa-has-begun-1.2121604] 4. Shots Here’s where it gets really bad for Sbisa. He’s criticized most over his shot numbers. But I’d argue that’s not his job, based on his skill set outline above. He’s in the same range here as Clayton Stoner and Rob Scuderi – two guys you don’t associate with outstanding shot statistics. [http://stats.hockeyanalysis.com/ratings.php?disp=1&db=201516&sit=5v5&pos=defense&minutes=50&teamid=0&type=individual&sort=icorsi&sortdir=DESC] [https://hockey-graphs.com/2015/12/22/sbisa-the-sens-and-the-scramble-evaluating-defensive-play-following-a-shot-attempt/] 5. Positioning Its hard to gauge this one statistically, but maybe someone out there has something better on this front. The one stat from this season that supports his improvement is that he’s a +5, which I think speaks to better play this year vs. previous. And +5 is good enough for #3 on the team +/- stats. But if someone out there has a better stat link for positioning please post it. [http://canucks.nhl.com/club/stats.htm?gameType=2&season=20152016&srt=pm] 6. Salary Oh yes, the salary. So who’s in the same price range? None of these guys are as good as Sbisa in separating guys from the puck, so while I think you can argue Sbisa overpaid, he’s not really that far overpaid. If his contract was 3.0 per, I don’t think anyone would be arguing that it was too high. Cody Franson – 3.3 per Stoner – 3.3 Scuderi – 3.4 Krug – 3.4 Smid – 3.5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spotted Zebra Posted April 20, 2016 Share Posted April 20, 2016 Sbisa is not as bad as people make him out to be, the issue is that the Canucks don't/didn't have enough depth at defence, and he was forced into a top four role which he shouldn't be in. Sbisa would make a good 6th/7th Dman in the lineup because he's one of our more physical guys. The only problem is that he's getting paid more than what he's worth. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thejazz97 Posted April 20, 2016 Share Posted April 20, 2016 6 minutes ago, Bob Long said: Codi Franson I didn't realize this was Real Housewives of 2006 Good write-up by the way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob Long Posted April 20, 2016 Author Share Posted April 20, 2016 Just now, thejazz97 said: I didn't realize this was Real Housewives of 2006 Good write-up by the way. oops. good one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PhillipBlunt Posted April 20, 2016 Share Posted April 20, 2016 I was pretty anti-Sbisa at the beginning of the season, but it was hard not to notice the leaps and bounds the guy made in improving aspects of his game that needed work. He's a very decent defenseman that has shown some flashes of excellence. That end to end rush he did against Colorado (I think) was unreal and his dish to Horvat for the goal was perfect. Someone who can do that, is someone who has talent. And seeing as how the defense is continuing to shape up, Sbisa will remain a welcome addition with his hard hitting style of play. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Angry Goose Posted April 20, 2016 Share Posted April 20, 2016 I would really like to see how Sbsia performs when paired with Hutton. I think they could compliment each other quite well Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blömqvist Posted April 20, 2016 Share Posted April 20, 2016 I'm in the camp for Sbisa. Like Linden said, he's the only guy back there willing to play physical, in your face hockey. Not all defensemen are gonna be good at everything, but the reason you have a defense pairing or heck, even a team, is that you're teammates are there to support your deficiencies and bring out your best. Just pair Sbisa with a solid puck mover and we're good. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JamesB Posted April 20, 2016 Share Posted April 20, 2016 14 minutes ago, Bob Long said: OK couple of asks as I realize this can be a heated topic: 1) I’d like this to be factual and backed up with numbers/links, not a venting forum for people that dislike Sbsia, so in your replies please use stats or other data to back up the statements, and 2) keep it civil, its all good, just killing time until the draft. So with that in mind I’m backing up each statement with a link. Also, I’ve had to go back to some 2015 stats but given he has improved this year and it’s a shortened year too, so I think that’s acceptable. Looking at Sbisa’s stats, I think a solid case can be made that he is a positive for this team. I’m not saying a star, I’m saying positive. If you judge him on Corsi, he’s terrible. But is that his job? When you look at hits, grabbing up loose pucks, and separating guys from the puck, he’s in some good company. Good analysis. Thanks for taking the trouble to get actual numbers. I agree that Sbisa contributes to the phyiscal game and that is a plus. But the bottom line is scoring more goals than the other team and Sbisa does not contribute much to scoring goals. And he has more than his share of defensive mistakes. I checked out WAR-ON-ICE for his WAR (wins-above-replacement). His WAR is poor (and that is being generous). WAR is far from a perfect stat and maybe it does not mean much at all. By the "eye test" Sbisa did seem better this year but I am far from convinced he can even be more that a marginal 3rd pairing guy. I know Benning likes his size and physical play, but if Tryamkin and Pedan are in the mix (and they are much younger than Sbisa) I see him getting passed on the depth chart. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob Long Posted April 20, 2016 Author Share Posted April 20, 2016 2 minutes ago, JamesB said: Good analysis. Thanks for taking the trouble to get actual numbers. I agree that Sbisa contributes to the phyiscal game and that is a plus. But the bottom line is scoring more goals than the other team and Sbisa does not contribute much to scoring goals. And he has more than his share of defensive mistakes. I checked out WAR-ON-ICE for his WAR (wins-above-replacement). His WAR is poor (and that is being generous). WAR is far from a perfect stat and maybe it does not mean much at all. By the "eye test" Sbisa did seem better this year but I am far from convinced he can even be more that a marginal 3rd pairing guy. I know Benning likes his size and physical play, but if Tryamkin and Pedan are in the mix (and they are much younger than Sbisa) I see him getting passed on the depth chart. Yah I've been digging into it on and off this year because being at the games, I thought I noticed something better in his positional play in particular but didn't have anything to back it up. I also like that he's just a quiet hard worker, willing to fight on occasion. I think the overpayment argument lies in offence - if he scored 3-5 goals and had 15 assists, that wouldn't be heard at all. I also think the stat he excels at - getting the puck away from guys in the d zone, isn't nearly as highly touted. You never really know how many chances he took away with that kind of play. I think comparing him to Bartkowski gives you a sense of that. http://war-on-ice.com/playerseason.html?name1=Luca0Sbisa Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alflives Posted April 20, 2016 Share Posted April 20, 2016 15 minutes ago, Blömqvist said: I'm in the camp for Sbisa. Like Linden said, he's the only guy back there willing to play physical, in your face hockey. Not all defensemen are gonna be good at everything, but the reason you have a defense pairing or heck, even a team, is that you're teammates are there to support your deficiencies and bring out your best. Just pair Sbisa with a solid puck mover and we're good. Larsen? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jägermeister Posted April 20, 2016 Share Posted April 20, 2016 I like Sbisa. A little overpaid, but he's a good bottom-pair guy who can lay the body and win puck battles. If he can keep the gaffes to a minimum he is very effective. Unfortunately all some people look at is the salary and the odd turnover and they decide to make him the whipping boy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jono2009 Posted April 20, 2016 Share Posted April 20, 2016 Waste of time talking about this parasite. Trade him for a bag of pucks. Bad deal by Canucks. Capologist Gilman argued his contract was horrid. I tend to agree. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vancitybuzz Posted April 20, 2016 Share Posted April 20, 2016 If he can clean up his giveaways and get a bit better in the offensive zone he can be a solid D man for us and will definitely live up to his contract Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ilduce39 Posted April 20, 2016 Share Posted April 20, 2016 Sbisa's low point totals kind of surprise me because on the (admittedly rare) occasion he looks pretty slick in the o zone. Easily our most athletically gifted defenseman at this juncture. He improved this year despite injuries and if he can take another step next year in terms of consistency I can see him being a quality piece. At this point he's really worth rolling the dice on, salary and all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shift-4 Posted April 20, 2016 Share Posted April 20, 2016 I am 'ok' with Sbisa I am not ok with his caphit What I struggle most with Sbisa is I usually can't tell if he is trying to make a pass or just trying to clear the puck when it gets on his stick in the d-zone. *memories of cringing at Slegr* Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drakrami Posted April 20, 2016 Share Posted April 20, 2016 If Sbisa was so good he woulda stepped up and became our indisputable #3 already. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PhillipBlunt Posted April 20, 2016 Share Posted April 20, 2016 31 minutes ago, jono2009 said: Waste of time talking about this parasite. Trade him for a bag of pucks. Bad deal by Canucks. Capologist Gilman argued his contract was horrid. I tend to agree. Source on Gilman's statement? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jono2009 Posted April 20, 2016 Share Posted April 20, 2016 you want his phone number? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PhillipBlunt Posted April 20, 2016 Share Posted April 20, 2016 4 minutes ago, jono2009 said: you want his phone number? Proof that Gilman actually said that would suffice. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
coastal.view Posted April 20, 2016 Share Posted April 20, 2016 sbisa is paid to be our #5 dman and he basically does that complain all you want about his limits.. for him to have less limitations would move him up to be a top 3 dman and then he is badly underpaid he is what he is middle of the road dman with decent nhl skills and gets paid accordingly we all want everyone of our players to over perform and out earn their contract .. i get that Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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