[Proposal] Bottom-feeder to contender while staying young

[Z Hockey]

At the Draft in Buffalo- Draft Laine 2nd

overall 

 

Re-sign Baertschi, Ma.Granlund, Etem, Bartkowski, Kenins, Fedun, Friesen, & 

Cannata 

 

TRADES

 

To Canucks: Pominville

                     6th round pick 2017

                     3rd round pick 2018

 

To Wild: Hansen

              Vey (RFA rights)

              3rd round pick 2018

 

 

To 2nd overall pick holder if we don't jump to 2nd overall...

(Leafs, Oilers, Blue Jackets, or Flames

others most likely to have it.)

 

If we have 3rd overall...

3rd overall & 4th rounder 2016 for...

2nd overall & 5th rounder 2017

 

If we have 4th overall...

4th overall & 2nd rounder 2016 for... 

2nd overall & 5th rounder 2016

 

If we have 5th overall...

5th overall, 2nd rounder 2016, & 

(Conditional 5th round pick) for...

2nd overall & (Conditional 5th round pick)

 

If we have 6th overall...

6th overall, 2nd rounder 2016, &

(Conditional 3rd round pick) for...

2nd overall & 6th round pick 

 

 

In the Pominville for Hansen & Vey trade, the Wild do it to clear cap space to re-sign 

Dumba, Zucker, & Kuemper. They don't

really hurt their top six as they will have a healthy Parise & Vanek who combined for 94 points in 144 games before nagging

respective injuries, they also had youngsters in Niedereitter, Coyle, & Haula break out with career highs in points this year and next

season they will be even more experienced

especially with getting solid playoff

experience right now against a top end team in the Stars. They add Hansen who doesn't replace Pominvilles offense but brings far more tenacity and speed, they've been

looking for that kind of bottom nine help the past few seasons and none of their acquistions to address the bottom nine have worked out.

(Bergenheim, Chris Stewart, & David Jones).

They also add a young playmaking forward in Vey who still has good upside and may need a fresh start. The Wild lose some

offense that will be replaced by a healthy Parise & Vanek & youngsters in a bigger role ,and they add some different fundamentals & traits while getting a little deeper.

 

The Canucks do this to really give the Sedins a fellow skill forward to work with.

Pominville had a down year with 36 points but was coming off a concussion &

leg laceration the past two seasons. He also missed 7 games this season with a lower body injury. He had 54 & 60 point seasons in 2013-14 & 2014-15 and has been otherwise very healthy throughout his career, he works very well on the power play and also

currently has 3 points in 3 games in the

playoffs. He's a very mature leader on the ice and a longtime teammate of Millers in Buffalo.

 

Then sign Yandle, Philip Larsen,

Trevor Lewis, & Gazdic. I've looked over all the free agents of every position and Yandle will be the easiest to sign on D and makes the most sense for us.

He's an upgrade on Hamhuis especially 

offensively. He could probably post 65 points from the blueline by playing on the power play with the Sedins. I'd rather spend alot of money on the blueline and trade for help

upfront. Let Vrbata, Hamhuis, Y. Weber, & Prust walk. Buy out Higgins.

 

Daniel-Henrik-Pominville

Laine-Horvat-Baertschi

Etem-Ma.Granlund-Sutter

Burrows-Lewis-Dorsett

Rodin

 

Yandle-Tanev

B.Hutton-Larsen

Edler-Tryamkin

Bartkowski-Sbisa/Biega

 

Markstrom

Miller

 

Out: Vrbata, Hansen, Vey, Hamhuis,

Y.Weber, Higgins, Prust

 

In: Laine, Yandle, Pominville, Rodin, Larsen, Lewis, Gazdic

 

In Utica: McCann, Virtanen, Kenins, M.Stewart, B.Gaunce, Cassels, Grenier,

Zalewski, Gazdic, Friesen, Labate, Fedun, Pedan, J.Subban, Stecher, A.Cederholm, McEneny, Sautner, Demko, Bachman,

Cannata

 

McCann after a summer of getting big could use time to gain a lot of confidence &

assertiveness in his abilities in the AHL. He has Elite upside and his skill is good enough to be in the NHL right now, but it would be great for his confidence to score a lot on the farm and not be worried about having to face Pacific Division size and aggression half the time. In Virtanen, he is a constantly physical

specimen with above-average skating and a solid release. He's also has solid skill he doesn't get credit for, yes his IQ and

creativity is poor but he has quick hands.

His shootout goal shows his soft/quick hands and release, that being said he still needs to keep dipping that shoulder and be cutting to net. He has to play a power forward-drive the net style to be fully effective in the top six. Like McCann, Virtanen playing his style in the AHL and not against Pacific Division  size or NHL speed alot will be good for him.

Gaunce has two-way ability, versatility, a little playmaking ability, and size. He needs to gain confidence in Utica in his play all over the ice, and needs to work on his decision-making.

 

 

 

 

[Nuxfanabroad]

It's interesting..I know Pom's been quite the player. However he's THREE more yrs at 5.6 mill. I'd probably want to extract something else from Minny, for helping balance their books.

 

Also, they've only got 4 picks, this draft..they're likely reluctant to part with many more.

 

Do they have any strong D-prospects worth pursuing?

 

edit: just noticed the picks are '17 & '18...

[Z Hockey]

4 minutes ago, Nuxfanabroad said:

It's interesting..I know Pom's been quite the player. However he's THREE more yrs at 5.6 mill. I'd probably want to extract something else from Minny, for helping balance their books.

 

Also, they've only got 4 picks, this draft..they're likely reluctant to part with many more.

 

Do they have any strong D-prospects worth pursuing?

 

edit: just noticed the picks are '17 & '18...

I thought about us getting back a D prospect from them, I figured that

Pominville will very likely bounce back and outscore Hansen so we gain the better

player so that counterbalances us taking more cap. The only other option I thought was realistic and a fit to acquire was

Craig Smith but he's got four years left on his deal. Pominvilles deal is the perfect amount of time for him to be a stop-gap

until Boeser is ready. I was iffy about 

posting the trade the way I did.

Please by all means dig up a D prospect from Minny you think we should acquire in that deal and edit the trade! 

[Nuxfanabroad]

19 minutes ago, Z Hockey said:

I thought about us getting back a D prospect from them, I figured that

Pominville will very likely bounce back and outscore Hansen so we gain the better

player so that counterbalances us taking more cap. The only other option I thought was realistic and a fit to acquire was

Craig Smith but he's got four years left on his deal. Pominvilles deal is the perfect amount of time for him to be a stop-gap

until Boeser is ready. I was iffy about 

posting the trade the way I did.

Please by all means dig up a D prospect from Minny you think we should acquire in that deal and edit the trade! 

No..too outa' the loop. Haven't seen much hockey(lately) at any level.

 

Like your strategy though..target a cap-crunched team, & get back extra value, if we help out with their cap-squeeze.

[Z Hockey]

5 minutes ago, Nuxfanabroad said:

No..too outa' the loop. Haven't seen much hockey(lately) at any level.

 

Like your strategy though..target a cap-crunched team, & get back extra value, if we help out with their cap-squeeze.

Thanks Nux! Even if you're outta the loop just go look at bios and stats on hockey's future, THN, or Elite prospects site.

Pick a D man you think fits what we need or might want or would be able to get and throw him in the trade! I can tell you still know your stuff with pointing out targeting a cap crunched team to get more value.  

I didn't think of that and thought we were robbing Minny haha!

[Toews]

Moving up is going to cost a lot more than what you have offered. I doubt any team trades out of the top 3 for a 2nd.

 

Ask yourself whether you would trade down from 2nd to 3rd to upgrade a 5th round pick to a 4th round pick.

[Z Hockey]

34 minutes ago, Toews said:

Moving up is going to cost a lot more than what you have offered. I doubt any team trades out of the top 3 for a 2nd.

 

Ask yourself whether you would trade down from 2nd to 3rd to upgrade a 5th round pick to a 4th round pick.

That's ridiculous the value is so close

between 2nd to 4th. Laine and Puljujarvi are as close as can be. So yes the difference would be a 4th round pick compared to a 5th. I would trade down from 2nd to 3rd to upgrade a mid round pick yes, some teams will have Puljujarvi 2nd overall and some will have Laine 2nd overall... 

And some might have Chychrun or M.Tkachuk at 2nd overall, some might have Matthews at 2nd or 3rd overall.

2nd or 3rd overall you are getting an Elite forward either way..

[SaintPatrick33]

3 hours ago, Z Hockey said:

Thanks Nux! Even if you're outta the loop just go look at bios and stats on hockey's future, THN, or Elite prospects site.

Pick a D man you think fits what we need or might want or would be able to get and throw him in the trade! I can tell you still know your stuff with pointing out targeting a cap crunched team to get more value.  

I didn't think of that and thought we were robbing Minny haha!

 

Dude I did not like some of your other proposals, but it is evident that you watch a lot of hockey. Cheers to providing some alternate options not yet explored. 

 

I would not trade Hansen, I do not think people realize his value. He has speed, tenacity, WILL BACKCHECK, can take hits, and will go on hot streaks. He could have had 30 goals this year playing with the Sedins were it not for injuries and 3rd line duty to start the year. Plus he is CHEAP 2.5 mill!!!?!?!?!

 

Other than that thank you for the post mr. Z hockey. 

[Z Hockey]

Thanks St.Patrick, I was bored of the same 

"sign Lucic or Eriksson" "sign Demers"

"Draft Matthews so we can trade McCann for a D prospect". Lol.   McCann should not be traded even if we get Matthews.

(We need to get Laine anyway.)

 

Which proposals didn't you like?

 

 

[SaintPatrick33]

Just now, Z Hockey said:

Thanks St.Patrick, I was bored of the same 

"sign Lucic or Eriksson" "sign Demers"

"Draft Matthews so we can trade McCann for a D prospect". Lol.   McCann should not be traded even if we get Matthews.

(We need to get Laine anyway.)

 

Which proposals didn't you like?

 

 

 

Only the Hansen one. I think he has infinite value. What makes me think this way? Remember game 3 versus the Bruins in 2011, he was our only player to withstand the physical nature of that game, and I believe scored a goal near the end. But he took viscous checks and was still able to play his game. He may be Danish but he is as tough as a Canadian. He is the one player from our "old" core that I would keep because of the way he plays. I bet the guys in the locker room love him as well. 

 

Please no more trade Hansen threads  

[Z Hockey]

14 minutes ago, SaintPatrick33 said:

 

Only the Hansen one. I think he has infinite value. What makes me think this way? Remember game 3 versus the Bruins in 2011, he was our only player to withstand the physical nature of that game, and I believe scored a goal near the end. But he took viscous checks and was still able to play his game. He may be Danish but he is as tough as a Canadian. He is the one player from our "old" core that I would keep because of the way he plays. I bet the guys in the locker room love him as well. 

 

Please no more trade Hansen threads  

Now that you say that yeah...

He had 2 points in that series and never was bothered by the Bruins.

I traded him to make room for

upgraded offense and to make room for Rodin & Virtanen, I love him but with the amount of high-end 

youngsters we have and will be drafting, he will get in the way. I signed Lewis to replace him who is a very similar player with a great attitude, 

2-way game, and has two cup rings experience.

[Toews]

3 hours ago, Z Hockey said:

That's ridiculous the value is so close

between 2nd to 4th. Laine and Puljujarvi are as close as can be. So yes the difference would be a 4th round pick compared to a 5th. I would trade down from 2nd to 3rd to upgrade a mid round pick yes, some teams will have Puljujarvi 2nd overall and some will have Laine 2nd overall... 

And some might have Chychrun or M.Tkachuk at 2nd overall, some might have Matthews at 2nd or 3rd overall.

2nd or 3rd overall you are getting an Elite forward either way..

Nobody has Tkachuk and Chychrun at 2nd overall. I doubt anyone that drafts either of those guys before the Finns will last very long at their job. We have a consensus top 3 this year and there is no chance either of those guys are dropping. I highly doubt that anyone has Matthews dropping from the 1st spot either, his status as a future #1C makes it very difficult to pass on him.

 

Also considering the chances of mid round pick working out, I would much rather have our scouts make the choice between Puljujarvi and Laine. 

[ItsMillerTime]

No way you can move up to 2nd with a 3rd overall pick and the 5 round pick.

[mll]

Interestingly the Wild's beat writer did a chat last week and his view differs quite a bit from yours. 

 

Summarised - he basically said that Pominville can be had for future considerations, Vanek is a buyout candidate, Granlund and Niederreiter are on the market, Kuemper is highly likely to be traded this summer, Zucker has been a surprise in a bad way and he could see them bringing back David Jones.  The transcript can be found on the Star Tribune's website - was the day of their first post-season game.

 

They are desperately trying to find a way to rid themselves of Pominville's contract - he has an NMC and 3 more years at 5.6M and a buyout has a too high cap hit to be an option.  He's 33 but his touch has taken a decline over the last two years (- 2 years ago he was a 30g + 30a player and this season has 11g + 25a).  Since Torchetti took over he is playing on their checking line with Haula and Niederreiter and has been fairly productive and they hope it could draw some interest in the off-season.  

 

When they signed Spurgeon GM Fletcher specifically said it will allow them to use their Ds in trades but I don't think he expected such a sharp decline in Pominville so they might want to add him as a cap dump in a trade and that will lower the value they get in return.

 

As for Vanek he is a buyout candidate.  He has an NMC but is just not a fit partially due to the make-up of the team.  It's challenging to bring in a goal scorer when the team has no playmakers to play him with (he is goal scorer that is simply not getting the puck in his preferred scoring positions) and his lack of foot-speed has been seriously exposed to the point where he has been a healthy scratch under both coaches.

 

As for the youngsters - he named Granlund and Niederreiter as being on the market.  He was also asked his order of players most likely to be traded - his answer: Zucker, Granlund, Brodin, Niederreiter, Dumba, Scandella.   These are the players the Canucks need to beat if they have the same trade target.   

 

Ownership is upset and they can't go into next season with again the same group so it's likely that they will move players to try and change the composition of the team.  The vets have NTCs and NMCs and are unlikely to draw a lot of interest anyways.

 

He believes that one of their targets is Okposo - he is from Minnesota and very close to Parise.  But to get him it's moving Pominville and/or buying out Vanek.   

 

Btw, the Wild were contacted at the time by the Isles re Hamonic and said no back then but looking at the list of players they are willing to move I wouldn't be surprised by a D-swap.

[Z Hockey]

8 hours ago, Toews said:

Nobody has Tkachuk and Chychrun at 2nd overall. I doubt anyone that drafts either of those guys before the Finns will last very long at their job. We have a consensus top 3 this year and there is no chance either of those guys are dropping. I highly doubt that anyone has Matthews dropping from the 1st spot either, his status as a future #1C makes it very difficult to pass on him.

 

Also considering the chances of mid round pick working out, I would much rather have our scouts make the choice between Puljujarvi and Laine. 

Laine is the guy we need to draft, more smooth, just as good of hands, more

accurate shot and he's a bit more

methodical, plus he's bigger.

Puljujarvi is a bit too all over the place, great hands, creativity, shot, and always wants to attack the net and shoot. But he's a bit sloppy and I feel like he misses a lot of scoring chances and may have consistency issues in the NHL. Just my opinion of what I've seen of him, regardless, there's no

reason a (100 point power forward!) in   Matt Tkachuk couldn't jump to 2nd or 3rd overall. He also has massive pedigree and is being developed in an organization with a track record of developing top-end NHL

talent consistently. If we had 1st overall id also rather take Laine than Matthews. 

You can't say that any of those guys couldn't jump spots into the top three, look at the 2013 draft for example. 

Dale Tallon passed on Seth Jones & Drouin for Barkov who people thought would go 6th overall and he went 2nd. Now look at Barkov, right now he's the better player than Jones or Drouin.

[Z Hockey]

5 hours ago, ItsMillerTime said:

No way you can move up to 2nd with a 3rd overall pick and the 5 round pick.

Why not? Depends who's doing the trade, teams will covet the top 3-5 players

differently and in different spots. 

Laine & Puljujarvi are almost the same

player, it shouldn't cost much to move up one spot from 3-2. For example, Laine is projected to go 2nd overall and Puljujarvi 3rd overall, but Puljujarvi is the one who scored a PPG in the World Juniors. 

[Z Hockey]

3 hours ago, mll said:

Interestingly the Wild's beat writer did a chat last week and his view differs quite a bit from yours. 

 

Summarised - he basically said that Pominville can be had for future considerations, Vanek is a buyout candidate, Granlund and Niederreiter are on the market, Kuemper is highly likely to be traded this summer, Zucker has been a surprise in a bad way and he could see them bringing back David Jones.  The transcript can be found on the Star Tribune's website - was the day of their first post-season game.

 

They are desperately trying to find a way to rid themselves of Pominville's contract - he has an NMC and 3 more years at 5.6M and a buyout has a too high cap hit to be an option.  He's 33 but his touch has taken a decline over the last two years (- 2 years ago he was a 30g + 30a player and this season has 11g + 25a).  Since Torchetti took over he is playing on their checking line with Haula and Niederreiter and has been fairly productive and they hope it could draw some interest in the off-season.  

 

When they signed Spurgeon GM Fletcher specifically said it will allow them to use their Ds in trades but I don't think he expected such a sharp decline in Pominville so they might want to add him as a cap dump in a trade and that will lower the value they get in return.

 

As for Vanek he is a buyout candidate.  He has an NMC but is just not a fit partially due to the make-up of the team.  It's challenging to bring in a goal scorer when the team has no playmakers to play him with (he is goal scorer that is simply not getting the puck in his preferred scoring positions) and his lack of foot-speed has been seriously exposed to the point where he has been a healthy scratch under both coaches.

 

As for the youngsters - he named Granlund and Niederreiter as being on the market.  He was also asked his order of players most likely to be traded - his answer: Zucker, Granlund, Brodin, Niederreiter, Dumba, Scandella.   These are the players the Canucks need to beat if they have the same trade target.   

 

Ownership is upset and they can't go into next season with again the same group so it's likely that they will move players to try and change the composition of the team.  The vets have NTCs and NMCs and are unlikely to draw a lot of interest anyways.

 

He believes that one of their targets is Okposo - he is from Minnesota and very close to Parise.  But to get him it's moving Pominville and/or buying out Vanek.   

 

Btw, the Wild were contacted at the time by the Isles re Hamonic and said no back then but looking at the list of players they are willing to move I wouldn't be surprised by a D-swap.

Interesting, I thought about going after Mikael Granlund, we need another creative top six weapon like him, plus it would make Markus' development a lot easier with his bro beside him. Hansen is still the best trade candidate if targeting any of those Minny players, the Wild need the type of game Hansen brings anyway. Plus they would shed just over 3 Mil in cap space

doing a Pominville/Hansen swap. 

 

What do you think about this?

 

Canucks acquire: Mi.Granlund

                             Pominville

       (Conditional) 4th round pick 2017

                             

 

Wild acquire: Hansen

                      Rodin

                      Vey (RFA)

                       2nd round pick 2018

                      

 

[Toews]

1 hour ago, Z Hockey said:

Laine is the guy we need to draft, more smooth, just as good of hands, more

accurate shot and he's a bit more

methodical, plus he's bigger.

Puljujarvi is a bit too all over the place, great hands, creativity, shot, and always wants to attack the net and shoot. But he's a bit sloppy and I feel like he misses a lot of scoring chances and may have consistency issues in the NHL. Just my opinion of what I've seen of him, regardless, there's no

reason a (100 point power forward!) in   Matt Tkachuk couldn't jump to 2nd or 3rd overall. He also has massive pedigree and is being developed in an organization with a track record of developing top-end NHL

talent consistently. If we had 1st overall id also rather take Laine than Matthews. 

You can't say that any of those guys couldn't jump spots into the top three, look at the 2013 draft for example. 

Dale Tallon passed on Seth Jones & Drouin for Barkov who people thought would go 6th overall and he went 2nd. Now look at Barkov, right now he's the better player than Jones or Drouin.

Tkachuk isn't the same level of prospect as Barkov. He also plays with two extremely proficient players in Marner and Dvorak which has inflated his stats. He is still a top 5 prospect but he isn't on the level of the Finns. Other than McKeen's prospect rankings, not a single credible scouting list has the Finns dropping. There is a clear big 3 this year and no one will be unexpectedly breaking into the top 3.

[PhillipBlunt]

Only issues with the proposal are trading Hansen and reupping Bartkowski. Both are bad ideas.

[Z Hockey]

1 hour ago, Toews said:

Tkachuk isn't the same level of prospect as Barkov. He also plays with two extremely proficient players in Marner and Dvorak which has inflated his stats. He is still a top 5 prospect but he isn't on the level of the Finns. Other than McKeen's prospect rankings, not a single credible scouting list has the Finns dropping. There is a clear big 3 this year and no one will be unexpectedly breaking into the top 3.

Yeah that's true he's been playing with Marner and C.Dvorak.

But do you think Juolevi or Chychrun could jump to No.3?