Still a long way to go.

[alfstonker]

Anyone else watching the playoffs just now and wondering if we will have to be more patient than even the more optimistic of us thought?

 

What I mean is I feel we are not yet building a contender but an interim team that hopefully will transition into a contender. 

 

These playoffs more than last year or the year before have me questioning the present make up of this team. It's not just LA now who are physical beasts, every team seems to have got bigger and raised the physicality bar, becoming more ruthless and relentless. (In fact LA and NYR are now out)

 

Alarmingly I don't see the Twins able to cope with this type of playoff hockey, their game to my mind, looks like it's from a different era now. It's not just age but the slow almost static style of their faltering re-cycle play and their refusal to push back - hard. They may as well paint targets on their back. The team's I am watching in the playoffs "man up" all the way through their lines.

 

To be fair it's not just the Twins, I would also put players like Granlund, Vey, Higgins, Tanev, Bartowski, Hammer, McCann (he will develop in Utica) in the same category labelled "hit me with impunity"

 

We have four promising prospects developing in the shape of Subban, McCann, Zhukenov and Jasek, as well as Alex Freisen and Stecher. These players will have to be develop physically and become something special in regards to speed and ability if they are going to ever fit into a "contender" in this new era.

 

Thankfully all of the other players as far as I can see in the pipe line seem to have the physical attributes for success providing they have the skill and ability.

 

The bottom line is I will be keeping a close eye on what type of player JB drafts in this year's draft. We need to "size up" we need speed, we need physical aggression and we need to start now.

 

Thoughts?

 

 

[Monty]

Yeah, it's going to take a long, long time. 

 

Great at example of this is the Jets. Most hockey experts agree that, not only have the Jets been rebuilding correctly, but they have the best prospect pool in the NHL. They are currently entering year 6 of their rebuild since coming to Winnipeg, and everyone in Winnipeg still feels they are at least two seasons away from being a team that can consistently make the playoffs year in and year out.

[Erik Karlsson]

Agreed, but we do have some players coming up who are physical beasts.

 

We have Tryamkin and Pedan on the back end who could pretty much take on anyone in the league and hold their own.

 

We have Virtanen who will be a top 6 player and is already one of the best hitters in the league at 19. 

 

Horvat is a tank and has already show multiple times he can power his way through a whole team.

 

We will most likely come out of the draft with either Laine, Puljujarvi, Dubois, or Chychrun. The smallest one out of all of them is Chychrun and he's already 6'2 194 pounds at 17.

 

So we will have some pretty good sized physical players in our top 6 and top 4 d which is really important.

 

But I do agree, we need to add some more size and grit to our bottom 6 and d.

[RogersTowell]

It depends on how long you think is a long time.  I think we are 2+ years from the playoffs and 3+ years from being a contender.  We lost a lot of 'core' players through trades and free agency.  It puts us in a position to get some good draft picks this year and likely again next year and possibly the year after that, but we kept enough veterans with some decent character to rebuild.  Conversely, it's possible we make the playoffs next year or next, but very unlikely to get anywhere in the playoffs - that would take a hot goal tender like '82 and a lot of character by many players.  Many of us have been Canucks fans since the start and know the drill.  If it takes time to build a winning team, we'll watch the games and enjoy the process.  We might even bitch and complain and pretend we know more than management (and some times we might be right).

[chon derry]

bang on about the sedins ,ineffective cycle,  no pushback ,slow.   leadership, experience  something like ladd, brouwer could bring for a few seasons until the young guys can stand on their own , i'd like to see.  i've had my fill of soft euro style hockey. 

[CaptKirk888]

6 minutes ago, alfstonker said:

Anyone else watching the playoffs just now and wondering if we will have to be more patient than even the more optimistic of us thought?

 

What I mean is I feel we are not yet building a contender but an interim team that hopefully will transition into a contender. 

I think most rebuilding teams are similar, LA and Chicago both were not successful immediately after aquiring high 1st rnd picks, they added pieces as they went to become the champion teams they are now.

 

These playoffs more than last year or the year before have me questioning the present make up of this team. It's not just LA now who are physical beasts, every team seems to have got bigger and raised the physicality bar, becoming more ruthless and relentless. (In fact LA and NYR are now out)

Agree, Canucks need to be more physical.

 

Alarmingly I don't see the Twins able to cope with this type of playoff hockey, their game to my mind, looks like it's from a different era now. It's not just age but the slow almost static style of their faltering re-cycle play and their refusal to push back - hard. They may as well paint targets on their back. The team's I am watching in the playoffs "man up" all the way through their lines.

Agree, with this exception - all teams now cycle as much as the sedins, but with more push back and physical play as you said.

 

To be fair it's not just the Twins, I would also put players like Granlund, Vey, Higgins, Tanev, Bartowski, Hammer, McCann (he will develop in Utica) in the same category labelled "hit me with impunity"

i would omit Bart and  McCann from this statement. Not a fan of Bart, but he does bring physical play.

 

We have four promising prospects developing in the shape of Subban, McCann, Zhukenov and Jasek, as well as Alex Freisen and Stecher. These players will have to be develop physically and become something special in regards to speed and ability if they are going to ever fit into a "contender" in this new era.

Yup

 

Thankfully all of the other players as far as I can see in the pipe line seem to have the physical attributes for success providing they have the skill and ability.

yup, appears JB's thinking is inline with this.

 

The bottom line is I will be keeping a close eye on what type of player JB drafts in this year's draft. We need to "size up" we need speed, we need physical aggression and we need to start now.

See above response.

 

Thoughts?

 

 

 

[bigbadcanucks]

Agree completely...the Canucks are closer to the bottom five than they are to the middle ten.  Two more years of dark and cloudy days, with little expectation of on-ice success is what I'm bracing myself for.  Still love the Canucks, but my hopes and expectations for the club will be muted, at best. 

 

If all goes to plan, the start of 2018-2019 season will be exciting and that's about the time I think we will start to have different expectations from the Canucks.  In the meantime, I am going to do my best to stay excited about the way Horvat, Virtanen, McCann, Baertschi, Gaunce, Cassels, Boeser, Zhuke, Hutton, Tryamkin, Pedan, Subban, Stecher, Brisebois, Olson, Neill, Demko, et. al. develop.  Also will be watching with great interest in how players like Etem, Vey, Granlund will develop as everyday pros.

[Jam126]

22 minutes ago, alfstonker said:

Anyone else watching the playoffs just now and wondering if we will have to be more patient than even the more optimistic of us thought?

 

What I mean is I feel we are not yet building a contender but an interim team that hopefully will transition into a contender. 

 

These playoffs more than last year or the year before have me questioning the present make up of this team. It's not just LA now who are physical beasts, every team seems to have got bigger and raised the physicality bar, becoming more ruthless and relentless. (In fact LA and NYR are now out)

 

Alarmingly I don't see the Twins able to cope with this type of playoff hockey, their game to my mind, looks like it's from a different era now. It's not just age but the slow almost static style of their faltering re-cycle play and their refusal to push back - hard. They may as well paint targets on their back. The team's I am watching in the playoffs "man up" all the way through their lines.

 

To be fair it's not just the Twins, I would also put players like Granlund, Vey, Higgins, Tanev, Bartowski, Hammer, McCann (he will develop in Utica) in the same category labelled "hit me with impunity"

 

We have four promising prospects developing in the shape of Subban, McCann, Zhukenov and Jasek, as well as Alex Freisen and Stecher. These players will have to be develop physically and become something special in regards to speed and ability if they are going to ever fit into a "contender" in this new era.

 

Thankfully all of the other players as far as I can see in the pipe line seem to have the physical attributes for success providing they have the skill and ability.

 

The bottom line is I will be keeping a close eye on what type of player JB drafts in this year's draft. We need to "size up" we need speed, we need physical aggression and we need to start now.

 

Thoughts?

 

 

So have we. I hate how people on here think that we are just static and EVERYONE besides us improves. You're basically stating the obvious here, this did not need a thread.

[CaptKirk888]

3 minutes ago, Jam126 said:

So have we. I hate how people on here think that we are just static and EVERYONE besides us improves. You're basically stating the obvious here, this did not need a thread.

I guess the moderators will determine that issue. Personally didn't see where stonker said we are the only team not improving.

[DIBdaQUIB]

The Sedin description is nothing new.  Even going back to 2011, they had a target painted on them and though the team cam e close to out-talenting the Bruins, they were physically dominated.

 

The Sedins keep the Nucks competitive in the regular season but this team will not contend while they are in our top six.  Too slow, not big enough to play the playoff cycle game and becoming more injury prone. 

Jake and Bo fit the size, speed and talent mold of what we need to have more of.  I think there is room for one, maybe two, Baertschi or Johnny Hockey type players on a team but beyond that, you are going to get beat to death by today's NHL playoff style.

 

I think SJS is a nice hybrid of finesse/talent and size/grit.  They are faster and more talented than LA yet able to take the hits (and dish out some good ones) to make the plays.  LA focused too much on size and physical domination and it hurt them on numerous occasions when SJS would not react and/or took the hit to make the play.

 

WE are getting faster and bigger but we lack top-end talent.  It will also likely take longer than we like to get and develop the size to go with the talent and speed.  Not an easy job to build a contending NHL team.

[Aircool]

I've been saying this for a while now. The reality is more than half of CDC thinks we are on the brink of being cup contenders. They think Boeser is our savior, and in 2 years when all of the prospects are on the team and the Sedins are still around (in their minds), we will win the cup. This is literally what I get from everyone who disagrees with me when I say, we are/need to rebuild, and we aren't close to done.

 

Just for reference, it took the Blackhawks 10 years to rebuild, they haven't missed the playoffs since and we know the success they've had. Someone here claims Winnipeg has been rebuilding for 6 years, I don't know that much about Winnipeg, but if that's true I'm sure 3-4 years from now they will be a consistent playoff threat. It just sort of takes 10 years to rebuild fully.

 

Look at Blackhawks timeline, it's really interesting. Start looking at some of the names they have drafted between 1999 -> 2008. It starts off with Ruutu (01), Babchuk (02), Keith (02), Seabrook(03), Crawford(03), Whiffed on Barker at #3 overall (04), Bolland(04), Bickell(04), Brouwer (04), Hjalmarsson (05). So they got this whole supporting staff in place via the draft. Then in '06 and '07 they capped it off with Toews and Kane. Ruutu was traded for Ladd, Hossa was acquired. Blackhawks got pretty lucky though too.

 

Toews was drafted 3rd overall by Chicago (obviously), you know who drafted 2nd? Pittsburgh and they selected Jordan Staal. Could you imagine Pittsburgh atm with Toews. I mean first of all, Malkin is probably gone, and he is replaced with loads of assets. But more importantly, what would Chicago look like with Jordan Staal/Nicklas Backstrom as 1C.... Would they have won a cup yet? Because that is the thinnest part of that team. Besides that though, I think being able to cap off a rebuld with two elite players at #3 and #1 is luckier than starting a rebuild with those picks. Which to be honest is part of the reason why I think Edmonton might be making great strides really soon, just got McDavid and this year they get another really good player. Can trade some of the older #1 picks and address some deficiencies....

[Canucks Curse]

36 minutes ago, alfstonker said:

Anyone else watching the playoffs just now and wondering if we will have to be more patient than even the more optimistic of us thought?

 

What I mean is I feel we are not yet building a contender but an interim team that hopefully will transition into a contender. 

 

These playoffs more than last year or the year before have me questioning the present make up of this team. It's not just LA now who are physical beasts, every team seems to have got bigger and raised the physicality bar, becoming more ruthless and relentless. (In fact LA and NYR are now out)

 

Alarmingly I don't see the Twins able to cope with this type of playoff hockey, their game to my mind, looks like it's from a different era now. It's not just age but the slow almost static style of their faltering re-cycle play and their refusal to push back - hard. They may as well paint targets on their back. The team's I am watching in the playoffs "man up" all the way through their lines.

 

To be fair it's not just the Twins, I would also put players like Granlund, Vey, Higgins, Tanev, Bartowski, Hammer, McCann (he will develop in Utica) in the same category labelled "hit me with impunity"

 

We have four promising prospects developing in the shape of Subban, McCann, Zhukenov and Jasek, as well as Alex Freisen and Stecher. These players will have to be develop physically and become something special in regards to speed and ability if they are going to ever fit into a "contender" in this new era.

 

Thankfully all of the other players as far as I can see in the pipe line seem to have the physical attributes for success providing they have the skill and ability.

 

The bottom line is I will be keeping a close eye on what type of player JB drafts in this year's draft. We need to "size up" we need speed, we need physical aggression and we need to start now.

 

Thoughts?

 

 

the toughness/heaviness is probably not going to be the main issue.

Tryamkin could be the physical beast of a specimen on D we have been waiting for - Horvat, Virtanen, Gaunce, Cassels, will develop into "heavy" players, mccann and boesser are likely to develop a lot of chippiness to their game as well. 

 

if Pedan becomes are regular, he will add toughness and hutton is big, he just needs to get heavier.

 

THE PROBLEM IS STAR POWER!

 

we need a sure fire 1C and a sure fire 1D and then with the rest of the cast we have, we will be really strong in 5 yrs.

Dubois is not a star, Tkachuk may be. The only sure fire stars in this draft are Laine and Matthews.

 

edler, Hansen, our 1st (if not top 2), etc need to be leveraged into a future 1C or 1D and the veterans we trade can be replaced through free agency.

[iinatcc]

5 minutes ago, Aircool said:

I've been saying this for a while now. The reality is more than half of CDC thinks we are on the brink of being cup contenders. They think Boeser is our savior, and in 2 years when all of the prospects are on the team and the Sedins are still around (in their minds), we will win the cup. This is literally what I get from everyone who disagrees with me when I say, we are/need to rebuild, and we aren't close to done.

 

Just for reference, it took the Blackhawks 10 years to rebuild, they haven't missed the playoffs since and we know the success they've had. Someone here claims Winnipeg has been rebuilding for 6 years, I don't know that much about Winnipeg, but if that's true I'm sure 3-4 years from now they will be a consistent playoff threat. It just sort of takes 10 years to rebuild fully.

 

Look at Blackhawks timeline, it's really interesting. Start looking at some of the names they have drafted between 1999 -> 2008. It starts off with Ruutu (01), Babchuk (02), Keith (02), Seabrook(03), Crawford(03), Whiffed on Barker at #3 overall (04), Bolland(04), Bickell(04), Brouwer (04), Hjalmarsson (05). So they got this whole supporting staff in place via the draft. Then in '06 and '07 they capped it off with Toews and Kane. Ruutu was traded for Ladd, Hossa was acquired. Blackhawks got pretty lucky though too.

 

Toews was drafted 3rd overall by Chicago (obviously), you know who drafted 2nd? Pittsburgh and they selected Jordan Staal. Could you imagine Pittsburgh atm with Toews. I mean first of all, Malkin is probably gone, and he is replaced with loads of assets. But more importantly, what would Chicago look like with Jordan Staal/Nicklas Backstrom as 1C.... Would they have won a cup yet? Because that is the thinnest part of that team. Besides that though, I think being able to cap off a rebuld with two elite players at #3 and #1 is luckier than starting a rebuild with those picks. Which to be honest is part of the reason why I think Edmonton might be making great strides really soon, just got McDavid and this year they get another really good player. Can trade some of the older #1 picks and address some deficiencies....

To be fair PIT got a good deal from the Jordan Staal trade Brandon Sutter, some C Level prospect, and an 8th Overall (Pouliot). Pouliot could turn into a very good defenseman for the team and Sutter was traded for a 2nd and Bonino (who looks to be paying off for the team right now). 

[Alflives]

11 minutes ago, Canucks Curse said:

the toughness/heaviness is probably not going to be the main issue.

Tryamkin could be the physical beast of a specimen on D we have been waiting for - Horvat, Virtanen, Gaunce, Cassels, will develop into "heavy" players, mccann and boesser are likely to develop a lot of chippiness to their game as well. 

 

if Pedan becomes are regular, he will add toughness and hutton is big, he just needs to get heavier.

 

THE PROBLEM IS STAR POWER!

 

we need a sure fire 1C and a sure fire 1D and then with the rest of the cast we have, we will be really strong in 5 yrs.

Dubois is not a star, Tkachuk may be. The only sure fire stars in this draft are Laine and Matthews.

 

edler, Hansen, our 1st (if not top 2), etc need to be leveraged into a future 1C or 1D and the veterans we trade can be replaced through free agency.

Who would you target in that trade scenario?  

[Blue Jay 22]

5 minutes ago, Canucks Curse said:

the toughness/heaviness is probably not going to be the main issue.

Tryamkin could be the physical beast of a specimen on D we have been waiting for - Horvat, Virtanen, Gaunce, Cassels, will develop into "heavy" players, mccann and boesser are likely to develop a lot of chippiness to their game as well. 

 

if Pedan becomes are regular, he will add toughness and hutton is big, he just needs to get heavier.

 

THE PROBLEM IS STAR POWER!

 

we need a sure fire 1C and a sure fire 1D and then with the rest of the cast we have, we will be really strong in 5 yrs.

Dubois is not a star, Tkachuk may be. The only sure fire stars in this draft are Laine and Matthews.

 

edler, Hansen, our 1st (if not top 2), etc need to be leveraged into a future 1C or 1D and the veterans we trade can be replaced through free agency.

You can't just anoint stars to prospects when they haven't even participated in an NHL practice yet, let alone play in NHL games. What's to say Dubois becomes a 1st liner while Tkachuk busts and vice versa? Same thing with Laine and Matthews. For every Sidney Crosby, there is a Alex Daigle, and for every Taro Tsujimoto in the 7th round, there is a Joe Pavelski.

 

Point being is that the most important factor of this rebuild will be scouting and prospect development. If JB and staff knock this draft and next year's draft out of the ballpark, the rebuild will accelerate by 2-4 years. If not, well all you have to do is look at Edmonton for the result of that consequence.

[Aircool]

5 minutes ago, iinatcc said:

To be fair PIT got a good deal from the Jordan Staal trade Brandon Sutter, some C Level prospect, and an 8th Overall (Pouliot). Pouliot could turn into a very good defenseman for the team and Sutter was traded for a 2nd and Bonino (who looks to be paying off for the team right now). 

I mean I don't think it's disputable that with hindsight, Pittsburgh made the wrong decision, that doesn't mean that their decision at the time was HORRIBLE, it was fine, just on the wrong side of history. I'm just trying to point out the fact that if Pittsburgh makes Toews their pick, what is Chicago? Is that really the difference between a successful rebuild with 3 cups, and a rebuild that might not have yet yielded 1 cup? If so, that should scare us.

 

To address your point about the trade value, Toews would yield a much better return obviously. So I mean, it's a mitigating factor, but not much else.

[desiboynux4lifee*******]

we need more skill, skill and more skill

 

 

playoffs  is not only about SIZE AND Aggresion. Tarensko is showing this. Benning needs to start drafting some skilled game changers, not only 2 way guys. Like a hella skilled player, how big is Pittisburgh? Skill matters and hopefully Benning starts drafting decent skilled players. Virtanen is looking lots like a 3rd line guy.

 

that leaves Boeser, horvat and which is decent enough. These players have size and aggression now go get some skilled guys.

[Lui's Knob]

Our drafting between 2009-2012 were awful and didn't replenish the team with speed and size and youth. Teams go in ebbs and flows so we should be fighting for a playoff spot in the next 2-3 years

[Stelar]

Agree, I think some think we are going to competitive sooner than we actually will be.

 

the other thing that has been confirmed after watching the playoffs, our home fans suck compared to most other rinks.  Except for Florida and NYI. 

[Baggins]

Same blah blah blah I've heard about the Sedins fior the past decade.