Is Benning really that bad when it comes to trading?

[Hortankin]

A lot of people on CDC rip on GMJB for his trades, why is that? Here is some JB trades since becoming our GM:

 

GREAT TRADES:

 

2nd for Baertschi

 

Bonino, Clendenning, 2nd for Sutter, 3rd

 

Kesler for McCann, Bonino, Sbisa

 

Jensen, 6th for Etem

 

 

GOOD TRADES:

 

2nd for Vey

 

3rd for Dorsett

 

2nd for Bieksa

 

Larsen for 5th

 

 

NEEDED TRADES:

 

Lack for 3rd, 7th

 

Clendenning for Forsling

 

Prust for Kassian, 5th

 

 

QUESTIONABLE TRADES:

 

Garrison, 7th, Costello for 2nd (needed to dump cap)

 

Granlund for Shinkaruk

 

Not trading Vrbata

 

 

BAD TRADES:

 

Please tell me.

 

[oldnews]

The Garrison deal was Garrison, 7th, rights to Costello for Tampa 2nd.

That is the pick that was dealt for Vey.

 

I don't find the Granlund/Shinkaruk deal 'questionable' - imo it was a good hockey trade that made sense for both clubs.

 

Not trading Vrbata is reality.   Toronto couldn't dump Parenteau for anything, Florida got a nosebleed pick for Pirri - there simpy was no market for inexpensive, productive wingers let alone injured and/or underproducing wingers.

[Hortankin]

2 minutes ago, oldnews said:

The Garrison deal was Garrison, 7th, rights to Costello for Tampa 2nd.

That is the pick that was dealt for Vey.

Good to know! Thank you. I actually thought it was a 3rd that was traded for Dorsett for some reason. I may have missed specific parts to some trades as i went of memory instead of researching lol. I will fix as Im corrected

[Gstank29]

No he isn't. Some people don't know how to not complain

[oldnews]

8 minutes ago, McHortanen said:

 

BAD TRADES:

 

Please tell me.

 

You should read the Kesler, Shinkaruk, Bonino etc trade threads lol.

Epic drama.

[Hortankin]

 

Just now, oldnews said:

You should read the Kesler, Shinkaruk, Bonino etc trade threads lol.

Epic drama.

Kesler trade was a great 1 especially for how handcuffed we were.

 

Sutter>>>>>Bonino

 

I am 1 that was very angry at the Shinkaruk trade but it all lies on how well Shinkaruk does with the Flames. One thing about this trade though, it shows GMJB cares about his players. He knew Shinkaruk wasn't in their plans so he sent him to the 1 other team he would like to play for. Unfortunately that team is our rival

[Hortankin]

5 minutes ago, Gstank29 said:

No he isn't. Same people don't know how to not complain

It must be because of how good he is at drafting. The only bad thing i see in JB is he is too honest (I like that from a fan perspective) and his negotiating. However looking back on the Miller, Vrbata, Sbisa, and Dorsett signings, I realise they arent even that bad. If it werent for those players last year we wouldn't have made the playoofs or drafted Boeser.

[elvis15]

" Hi everyone, I'm the OP and here are what his trades are with no reasoning to suggest why they can be ranked as such."

 

I have a feeling there will be at least some people who will disagree on said rankings...

[PhillipBlunt]

9 minutes ago, McHortanen said:

 

Kesler trade was a great 1 especially for how handcuffed we were.

 

Sutter>>>>>Bonino

 

I am 1 that was very angry at the Shinkaruk trade but it all lies on how well Shinkaruk does with the Flames. One thing about this trade though, it shows GMJB cares about his players. He knew Shinkaruk wasn't in their plans so he sent him to the 1 other team he would like to play for. Unfortunately that team is our rival

I don't think that Benning has had one instance where he didn't put the consideration into where the player would end up. That goes a long way for potential UFAs to consider where to go.

[Roger Neilsons Towel]

22 minutes ago, McHortanen said:

A lot of people on CDC rip on GMJB for his trades, why is that? Here is some JB trades since becoming our GM:

 

GREAT TRADES:

 

2nd for Baertschi

 

Bonino, Clendenning, 2nd for Sutter, 3rd

 

Kesler for McCann, Bonino, Sbisa

 

Jensen, 6th for Etem

 

 

 

GOOD TRADES:

 

2nd for Vey

 

3rd for Dorsett

 

 

 

QUESTIONABLE TRADES:

 

Garrison, 7th, Costello for 2nd

 

Granlund for Shinkaruk

 

Not trading Vrbata

 

 

BAD TRADES:

 

Please tell me.

 

Out of all of his trades so far, the only ones that I was truly upset about was the Shinkaruk trade, Bieksa trade, and Lack trade. In hindsight, the Bieksa and Lack trades I was only upset for sentimental reasons I guess, so moving on from that it's really only the Shinkaruk trade that still leaves me shaking my head, but only time will tell...

 

Really, his ratio of good trades to bad trades is pretty damn good. His record is much more positive than negative.

[combover]

The bad 

vey for a second (terrible)

Kassian 5th for nothing (terrible)

Grossly overpayed for sutter 

frosling for nothing(terrible)

Teams leading scorer in the ahl for another NHL 4th liner (bad)

jensen and pick for another 3rd/4th line fringe nhler in etem.

how many fourth liner do you need

not moving vrbata

not moving hamhuis

not getting any return for those aswell as Mathias Richardson Higgins prust corrado 

5th for khl d man Phillips 

Lack  bieska for the minimal return 

other gms always seem to come out with the better package when dealing with Benning so yeah that makes him bad if not terrible at trades. ..

 

 

[smithers joe]

good/bad is just opinions of cdc, it doesn't mean his trades are bad/good...5 years from now, lets judge his trades...

[tyhee]

38 minutes ago, McHortanen said:

A lot of people on CDC rip on GMJB for his trades, why is that? Here is some JB trades since becoming our GM:

 

GREAT TRADES:

 

2nd for Baertschi

 

Bonino, Clendenning, 2nd for Sutter, 3rd

 

Kesler for McCann, Bonino, Sbisa

 

Jensen, 6th for Etem

 

 

 

GOOD TRADES:

 

2nd for Vey

 

3rd for Dorsett

 

 

 

QUESTIONABLE TRADES:

 

Garrison for 3rd

 

Granlund for Shinkaruk

 

Not trading Vrbata

 

 

BAD TRADES:

 

Please tell me.

 

Without expressing an opinion here about whether Benning is or isn't a good trader, I must say that imo it's way, way too early to judge whether these trades are great or awful.  Some of Benning's trades I like, some I don't, some I REALLY don't but in almost all cases insufficient time has passed to make a final judgment on how they turn out.

 

Baertschi for a 2nd-you've listed as great.  It may turn out that way.  So far it has been pretty good for the Canucks.  We probably still haven't seen Baertschi at his best and I'm optimistic.   Otoh, that 2nd could turn out to be valuable as well.

 

Bonino, Clendenning, 2nd for Sutter, 3rd-you've listed this as great.  Why?  So far what we know is that neither team got much out of it in 2015-16.  Those that thought the trade awful will still think it awful, those with the preconceived notion that it was great still have that notion.  It hasn't been proven to be anything yet.  I'm thinking you must have thought it a great trade at the time, but so far nothing has happened to show it was or wasn't.  Bonino wasn't productive in a 3rd line role for the Pens and Sutter didn't play enough to be useful for the Canucks, so so far all that's really happened is that the Canucks spend more money and gave up a depth d-man (that probably wouldn't have made the team this season) for an injured player, while also taking a lower draft pick. Time should help make the picture clearer, though because the value of the lower draft pick, of Clendening if any, the cap space difference in the centers and their different new roles I expect there to be arguments for a long time about whether this trade was good or bad.
 

Kesler for McCann, Bonino, Sbisa.  You've called this a great trade.  Others from time to time criticize it harshly.  Why do you think it so great?   Because we got Sbisa?  Because we got one of 3 pieces we traded for Sutter?  Because McCann might become a long-term fine player?  Again, you're jumping to conclusions way, way too early.  FWIW, I didn't mind this trade (until the Sbisa extension, which can be treated as a separate matter) and still don't, but when what we got is a middling Center, a project on defence and a prospect at center iit is way, way too early to say whether this trade will turn out successfully.  Again, this could turn out to be a great trade, it could turn out terribly.  Time will tell.  Saying it has turned out great or badly is simply trying to analyze a trade before enough time has passed.

 

Jensen, 6th for Etem.  Great?  Really?  Etem may or may not turn out to be a player.  There was speculation about whether the Canucks would even extend him until he scored more the last few games of the season.  (FWIW, I also like this trade, but on no account would I call it great without seeing how the players do over the next couple of years at least.)

 

Good-Vey for a 2nd?  This is debatable.  I think that trade was marginal at best and would rather have had the 2nd-or Garrison for a couple more years.  Vey still has time to prove me wrong, though.

 

You've left out some trades of course.   Trading for Prust hasn't worked out well.  The Forsling for Clendening trade is questionable-the Canucks only get value out of it if it turns out the trade for Sutter turns out well.

[Heretic]

4 minutes ago, smithers joe said:

good/bad is just opinions of cdc, it doesn't mean his trades are bad/good...5 years from now, lets judge his trades...

The real question is, why haven't some people on CDC accepted the fact that the players we traded were no where near as high a trade value as they thought they were.

 

In other words, some people here on CDC over value our players!

 

/thread.

[BCNeil]

His drafting is great.  His trades overall are decent.

His free agent signings and contract extensions are the issue.  Weber, Bart, Sbisa. Vrbata, Miller.

[Hortankin]

4 minutes ago, tyhee said:

Without expressing an opinion here about whether Benning is or isn't a good trader, I must say that imo it's way, way too early to judge whether these trades are great or awful.  Some of Benning's trades I like, some I don't, some I REALLY don't but in almost all cases insufficient time has passed to make a final judgment on how they turn out.

 

Baertschi for a 2nd-you've listed as great.  It may turn out that way.  So far it has been pretty good for the Canucks.  We probably still haven't seen Baertschi at his best and I'm optimistic.   Otoh, that 2nd could turn out to be valuable as well.

 

Bonino, Clendenning, 2nd for Sutter, 3rd-you've listed this as great.  Why?  So far what we know is that neither team got much out of it in 2015-16.  Those that thought the trade awful will still think it awful, those with the preconceived notion that it was great still have that notion.  It hasn't been proven to be anything yet.  I'm thinking you must have thought it a great trade at the time, but so far nothing has happened to show it was or wasn't.  Bonino wasn't productive in a 3rd line role for the Pens and Sutter didn't play enough to be useful for the Canucks, so so far all that's really happened is that the Canucks spend more money and gave up a depth d-man (that probably wouldn't have made the team this season) for an injured player.   More time should help make the picture clearer, though because the value of the lower draft pick, of Clendening if any, the cap space difference in the centers and their different new roles I expect there to be arguments for a long time about whether this trade was good or bad.
 

Kesler for McCann, Bonino, Sbisa.  You've called this a great trade.  Others from time to time criticize it harshly.  Why do you think it so great?   Because we got Sbisa?  Because we got one of 3 pieces we traded for Sutter?  Because McCann might become a long-term fine player?  Again, you're jumping to conclusions way, way too early.  FWIW, I didn't mind this trade (until the Sbisa extension, which can be treated as a separate matter) and still don't, but when what we got is a middling Center, a project on defence and a prospect at center iit is way, way too early to say whether this trade will turn out successfully.  Again, this could turn out to be a great trade, it could turn out terribly.  Time will tell.  Saying it has turned out great or badly is simply trying to analyze a trade before enough time has passed.

 

Jensen, 6th for Etem.  Great?  Really?  Etem may or may not turn out to be a player.  There was speculation about whether the Canucks would even extend him until he scored more the last few games of the season.  (FWIW, I also like this trade, but on no account would I call it great without seeing how the players do over the next couple of years at least.)

 

Good-Vey for a 2nd?  This is debatable.  I think that trade was marginal at best and would rather have had the 2nd-or Garrison for a couple more years.  Vey still has time to prove me wrong, though.

 

You've left out some trades of course.   Trading for Prust hasn't worked out well.  The Forsling for Clendening trade is questionable-the Canucks only get value out of it if it turns out the trade for Sutter turns out well.

Jensen never would have played for us again, he was a bust for our team it was time to move on. The 6th has next to no value. Etem played the rest of the season with us and has found chemistry with BO. So yes it is a great trade.

 

You dont need to get a crosby to make a great trade. 

[D-Money]

4 minutes ago, combover said:

The bad 

vey for a second (terrible) - partially agree

Kassian 5th for nothing (terrible) - Montreal got even less, no one took on waivers

Grossly overpayed for sutter - looked pretty damn good when healthy

frosling for nothing(terrible) - took a chance on Clendening, understandable

Teams leading scorer in the ahl for another NHL 4th liner (bad) - Granlund scored more in AHL, doesn't mean squat

jensen and pick for another 3rd/4th line fringe nhler in etem. - Etem has shown flashes, Jensen fringe AHL-er. I think if EE can stay disciplined in the off-season, he will come back an effective player.

how many fourth liner do you need

not moving vrbata - NTC on record as saying he didn't want to move b/c of child.

not moving hamhuis - agree

not getting any return for those aswell as Mathias Richardson Higgins prust corrado - Meh on Matthias (we were firmly in a playoff spot). Richardson hurt at deadline, Higgins and Prust passed on waivers, so who is going to pay a return?

5th for khl d man Phillips - How the hell do you know this isn't a good deal yet?

Lack  bieska for the minimal return  - How do you know they weren't the maximum returns??? Based on the seasons they went on to have, looks like the other teams offered fair market value.

other gms always seem to come out with the better package when dealing with Benning so yeah that makes him bad if not terrible at trades. .. - Meaningless ramblings

The only ones I sort of agree with are Vey and nothing for Hamhuis. But taking chances on players sometimes pan out (Baertshi), and sometimes don't (Vey). You have to look at success as a whole.

 

In other news, Meh on Matthias would be a good band name.

[HorvatToBaertschi]

3 minutes ago, combover said:

The bad 

vey for a second (terrible)

Kassian 5th for nothing (terrible)

Grossly overpayed for sutter 

frosling for nothing(terrible)

Teams leading scorer in the ahl for another NHL 4th liner (bad)

jensen and pick for another 3rd/4th line fringe nhler in etem.

how many fourth liner do you need

not moving vrbata

not moving hamhuis

not getting any return for those aswell as Mathias Richardson Higgins prust corrado 

5th for khl d man Phillips 

Lack  bieska for the minimal return 

other gms always seem to come out with the better package when dealing with Benning so yeah that makes him bad if not terrible at trades. ..

 

 

2nd for vey is still up in the air. Hé has good potential.

 

Kassian we got rid of an alcoholic who had all the tools to be à superstar but instead prefered partying therefore bénning décides to trade à locker room cancer for a leader (prust which unfortunately didnt pan out. Hindsight)

 

Grossly did not overpay for sutter, hé is à phenomenal talent from à phenomenal family who knows how to win. You need this kind of player to win. Hé was having à great season on every line when hé wasnt injured and we felt his loss when he got injured instantly. 26 and still got à lot of potential to be an élite 2nd line center. 

 

Forsling for clendenning was à great move at the time of the trade. Gillis left this team in shambles vis à vis the prospect cupboard and bénning tried to plug the hole, Trading à 5th rounder for a potential 6th dman to contribute asap.

 

Shink trade is à tough one but granlund is no 4th liner. Hé will be à versatile middle 6 player much like burrows in his career, which is à high ceiling if you ask me.

 

Jensen did nothing since 2014. Hé was lazy and didnt play well in thé ahl, so considering we got CDC's ex dream-acquisition circa the kesler trade, Etem for him is actually Quite amazing. People used to want to trade the farm for Etem,  give him time hé has all the tools.

 

Not moving vrbata or hamhuis was due to thé market not bénning.

 

Mathias --> virtanen

Richardson --> mccann

They had no trade value and if we had resigned them our rookies would be in thé chl not developping under our watch.

 

Higgins got out played. Tough $&!#.

 

A 5th for larsen is pretty good considering hé might be à contributor for next season. Hé was ruined by another albertan team, we are pretty good at recovering their messes so dont you worry.

 

Bieksa for a 2nd is maximal return.

 

Lack for a 3rd and 7th is maximal return.

 

You need to seriously stop being so négative. Our team is definetely headed in thé right direction ans bénning has been doing à good job in thé Trading département seeing what hé has been given. Please stop reusing the same old trades for no reason with no explanations

While at the time degrading our current players because you are butt hurt.

We have a gréât youth movement and you limiting them as 4th liners shows you actually know nothing about hockey. 

I bet you Were one of the people hating on baertschi. On burrows when hé came into the league. On Schneider After his horrible rookie season as a back up. On horvat playing as a 19 year old. Hating that hutton made thé team. Hating bieksa. Lack. Markstrom.

All thèse players Were criticized before playing more than 1 season and I bet you Were one of those people. Hindsight is 20/20.

 

Cheers.

 

[Honky Cat]

20 minutes ago, smithers joe said:

good/bad is just opinions of cdc, it doesn't mean his trades are bad/good...5 years from now, lets judge his trades...

I agree ..there's too much grey area to call these trades clear wins/losses at this point in time..

 

 

[Putgolzin]

what i see in benning's trades is that they're often just a bit of a tweak towards a better future.

sometimes they're creating space, sometimes they're getting someone who is just a bit closer to being impactful, sometimes they're addition by subtraction (ie: kassian (even if i'd rather have kept him)).

he always seems to be doing little things, but with a clear sense of direction. 

i still really dislike the shinkaruk trade, but i've gotta think that it was done with this same clear sense of purpose. here's to hoping.