89mogilny Posted May 14, 2016 Share Posted May 14, 2016 There was a rumor floating around that FA wanted more in the original offer that Dallas gave us because he thought we could get more since he had a long standing beef with the Stars owner and wanted to fleece them. This rumor was started by Botch so we don't know if this has any merit or not. I'm an FA hater and it wouldn't surprise me one bit if he did this because he is a tool like this and i don't buy for one second that Linden and Benning have full autonomy when it comes to trades or transactions. The Stars ended up making the Russel trade and gave us a last minute offer which was way less than the original offer because the Stars knew we were desperate at that point. It was believed to be a fifth rounder or sixth rounder. Management and ownership ended up keeping the veteran player because they didn't want to seem desperate nor foolish at the same time. Which was a huge mistake for the following reasons at the start of the 03-04 season, the Capitals had aspirations of winning the Stanley Cup, they were coming into the season with high hopes after losing to the Lightning the previous year in six games after squandering a 2-0 series lead. They started the season real bad and it got worse and worse. Management and ownership then decided it was time to start over and fast with the upcoming draft featuring two potential franchise players...they traded away a legend in Peter Bondra for pretty much nothing, then traded away two superstars for decent draft picks Robert Lang (who was leading scorer in the league at the time of the trade) and Sergei Gonchar was easily a top 10 defenceman in the league at the time .....then they traded away Jagr and his huge salary to the Rangers for Anson Carter...yes you heard me correctly, a first ballot hall of famer at 32 years old for Anson Carter, everybody was shaking their heads at the time...because the caps so desperately wanted to have one of the the top two picks in that draft to either land Ovie or Malkin. They took their chances and didn't care if they looked foolish or not, they traded away that huge contract because they knew with Jags in the line up, the're not gonna finish in the bottom and there was only one team in the league that could afford him. Fast forward to this past deadline, even though we were expecting a lot for Dan Ham at the start of the day, we should have just cut our losses and accepted this trade, we tried fleecing the Stars but got burned. So who cares, you give a loyal soldier like Hamuis a shot to win the cup and we up our drafting odds. it doesn't matter if we win the lottery or not, its about improving our odds at winning in the future rather than trying to get the moon for an aging veteran that deserved a lot more than what the organization and city gave him. If Hammer is out of the line up we probably finish with the worst record in the league and subsequently win the draft but knowing the NHL we would have been screwed but at the end of the day we end up improving our chances and getting a sixth round pick or two six round picks at the very least for our consolation prize. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spotted Zebra Posted May 14, 2016 Share Posted May 14, 2016 If you trade Hamhuis for a 6th round pick, say goodbye to the idea of ever getting fair value in a trade again Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lmm Posted May 14, 2016 Share Posted May 14, 2016 2 minutes ago, Spotted Zebra said: If you trade Hamhuis for a 6th round pick, say goodbye to the idea of ever getting fair value in a trade again i do not believe that for a minute it is called "spin" and nothing more Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spotted Zebra Posted May 14, 2016 Share Posted May 14, 2016 Just now, lmm said: i do not believe that for a minute it is called "spin" and nothing more It's called "I now know I can wait out a desperate GM" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Weasel Posted May 14, 2016 Share Posted May 14, 2016 hahahhahahahahahaha. If it is true that it was only a 5th/6th rounder, then no we didn't get burned. Seeing the stars lose is so much more satisfying then some pathetic pick. If they want to try and lowball us then they can deal with their 2nd round exit. You have to have some respect for a player that has given so much for this team, especially since he wants to come back so badly. You can't be screwing players around like that because other players will see how players are being treated here. Some pathetic pick isn't worth the loss of respect Benning would get and we'd end up losing future trades even more if other GMs know that we'll give in like that. I'm glad you're not the gm. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bur14Kes17 Posted May 14, 2016 Share Posted May 14, 2016 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gollumpus Posted May 14, 2016 Share Posted May 14, 2016 Regardless of whether or not the Canucks would have gotten any value from a low pick in return for Hamhuis, I am okay reading threads like this rather than the alternative: "OMGZ!!! Benning gave away Hamhuis and now teamX is going to winz teh CUP!!! FIRE BENING HE CANT MAKE TRADEZ!!!!!!!" regards, G. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MeanSeanBean Posted May 14, 2016 Share Posted May 14, 2016 That's your opinion op, my opinion is you are completely wrong and we were much better holding on to hammer for veteran leadership and to show other gms in the league that Benning isn't some pushover. Imagine if the most sought out D in FA went for a 5th rounder, it would be the biggest story of the year and Benning would never be taken seriously in trades. Sure I wish we got full value for Hammer and picked up assets, but all things considered I respect Benning's decision. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gollumpus Posted May 14, 2016 Share Posted May 14, 2016 19 minutes ago, 89mogilny said: There was a rumor floating around that FA wanted more in the original offer that Dallas gave us because he thought we could get more since he had a long standing beef with the Stars owner and wanted to fleece them. This rumor was started by Botch so we don't know if this has any merit or not. I'm an FA hater and it wouldn't surprise me one bit if he did this because he is a tool like this and i don't buy for one second that Linden and Benning have full autonomy when it comes to trades or transactions. The Stars ended up making the Russel trade and gave us a last minute offer which was way less than the original offer because the Stars knew we were desperate at that point. It was believed to be a fifth rounder or sixth rounder. Management and ownership ended up keeping the veteran player because they didn't want to seem desperate nor foolish at the same time. Which was a huge mistake for the following reasons at the start of the 03-04 season, the Capitals had aspirations of winning the Stanley Cup, they were coming into the season with high hopes after losing to the Lightning the previous year in six games after squandering a 2-0 series lead. They started the season real bad and it got worse and worse. Management and ownership then decided it was time to start over and fast with the upcoming draft featuring two potential franchise players...they traded away a legend in Peter Bondra for pretty much nothing, then traded away two superstars for decent draft picks Robert Lang (who was leading scorer in the league at the time of the trade) and Sergei Gonchar was easily a top 10 defenceman in the league at the time .....then they traded away Jagr and his huge salary to the Rangers for Anson Carter...yes you heard me correctly, a first ballot hall of famer at 32 years old for Anson Carter, everybody was shaking their heads at the time...because the caps so desperately wanted to have one of the the top two picks in that draft to either land Ovie or Malkin. They took their chances and didn't care if they looked foolish or not, they traded away that huge contract because they knew with Jags in the line up, the're not gonna finish in the bottom and there was only one team in the league that could afford him. Fast forward to this past deadline, even though we were expecting a lot for Dan Ham at the start of the day, we should have just cut our losses and accepted this trade, we tried fleecing the Stars but got burned. So who cares, you give a loyal soldier like Hamuis a shot to win the cup and we up our drafting odds. it doesn't matter if we win the lottery or not, its about improving our odds at winning in the future rather than trying to get the moon for an aging veteran that deserved a lot more than what the organization and city gave him. If Hammer is out of the line up we probably finish with the worst record in the league and subsequently win the draft but knowing the NHL we would have been screwed but at the end of the day we end up improving our chances and getting a sixth round pick or two six round picks at the very least for our consolation prize. A difference in these two scenarios is that we're talking about a Canuck asset who is an upcoming UFA, rather than in your post you are discussing the Caps trading away guys who are still under contract. Big difference. regards, G. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Twilight Sparkle Posted May 14, 2016 Share Posted May 14, 2016 13 minutes ago, Bur14Kes17 said: storm troopers can beat a dead horse, but still manage to miss it D: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldnews Posted May 14, 2016 Share Posted May 14, 2016 23 minutes ago, 89mogilny said: There was a rumor floating around that FA wanted more in the original offer that Dallas gave us because he thought we could get more since he had a long standing beef with the Stars owner and wanted to fleece them. This rumor was started by Botch so.. so not worth a thread in other words. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drakrami Posted May 14, 2016 Share Posted May 14, 2016 20 minutes ago, Spotted Zebra said: If you trade Hamhuis for a 6th round pick, say goodbye to the idea of ever getting fair value in a trade again By your logic, Stan Bowman cant make any trades in the NHL anymore? He's made some pretty horrible value losing trade over the past couple of years. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gollumpus Posted May 14, 2016 Share Posted May 14, 2016 3 minutes ago, shayster007 said: That's your opinion op, my opinion is you are completely wrong and we were much better holding on to hammer for veteran leadership and to show other gms in the league that Benning isn't some pushover. Imagine if the most sought out D in FA went for a 5th rounder, it would be the biggest story of the year and Benning would never be taken seriously in trades. Sure I wish we got full value for Hammer and picked up assets, but all things considered I respect Benning's decision. The thing that speaks to this is that Dallas, as well as the Caps and Chicago, were looking to get Hamhuis and all of them bowed out early in these playoffs, in part because they were missing some help on the blue line. I believe that this is a lesson that other teams will take into consideration should they get into a similar situation with Benning. Their team's success is not a consideration for Benning, so they should either be willing to pay or don't bother to call. regards, G. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gollumpus Posted May 14, 2016 Share Posted May 14, 2016 5 minutes ago, Drakrami said: By your logic, Stan Bowman cant make any trades in the NHL anymore? He's made some pretty horrible value losing trade over the past couple of years. Doesn't it depend on all of the variables in the trade? If a GM makes a "horrible value" trade" is assessing it limited to the players/assets involved, or do things like clearing cap space and/or getting something for an asset which you might well lose for nothing come into play? regards, G. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gollumpus Posted May 14, 2016 Share Posted May 14, 2016 13 minutes ago, Twilight Sparkle said: storm troopers can beat a dead horse, but still manage to miss it D: Well, if you notice, none of them have actually managed to hit the horse. The guy on the left has come close, but still hasn't made contact. regards, G. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
goblix Posted May 14, 2016 Share Posted May 14, 2016 I hate this take anything you can get type of ideal. If you had a car worth 500 dollars on the market and someone was offering 50 bucks for it would you accept it? I think not now if he was offering 300-400 dollars then maybe we got a deal here... simple asset management here not to mention the matter of principle of just utterly being ripped off. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jmahyoung Posted May 14, 2016 Share Posted May 14, 2016 35 minutes ago, The Weasel said: hahahhahahahahahaha. If it is true that it was only a 5th/6th rounder, then no we didn't get burned. Seeing the stars lose is so much more satisfying then some pathetic pick. If they want to try and lowball us then they can deal with their 2nd round exit. You have to have some respect for a player that has given so much for this team, especially since he wants to come back so badly. You can't be screwing players around like that because other players will see how players are being treated here. Some pathetic pick isn't worth the loss of respect Benning would get and we'd end up losing future trades even more if other GMs know that we'll give in like that. I'm glad you're not the gm. I get the respect thing. However if we simply loaned hammer to the stars for 1/3 of a season, then re-signed him in Vancouver to a long term deal, given that we were going to miss the playoffs ourselves anyway; a 6th rounder isn't so unreasonable, it's approaching fair price. I would make that deal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gaudette Celly Posted May 14, 2016 Share Posted May 14, 2016 22 minutes ago, oldnews said: so not worth a thread in other words. Read the first line, skipped most of the rest, and still came up with a boatload of factual errors and speculation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike Vanderhoek Posted May 14, 2016 Share Posted May 14, 2016 44 minutes ago, Spotted Zebra said: If you trade Hamhuis for a 6th round pick, say goodbye to the idea of ever getting fair value in a trade again This is exactly it. Simple really. No spinning or take on things, just is what it is. FA was not a factor in this trade discussion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thejazz97 Posted May 14, 2016 Share Posted May 14, 2016 34 minutes ago, Gollumpus said: "OMGZ!!! Benning gave away Hamhuis and now teamX is going to winz teh CUP!!! FIRE BENING HE CANT MAKE TRADEZ!!!!!!!" regards, G. This is the best post I've ever read. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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