GettinGuddyWithIt Posted June 5, 2016 Share Posted June 5, 2016 1 hour ago, hammertime said: Hahahaha! So fitting Gudbrandson quote on the trade "it is what it is" hmmm where have I heard that before? **Cough McCann Draft Cough** http://www.tsn.ca/radio/vancouver-1040-i-1410/gudbranson-i-m-there-to-make-the-game-as-miserable-as-possible-for-top-players-1.501053 around 1:25min in to interview. Sorry if this has been posted before I just heard this for the first time so I might be late to the party. He was referring to something else not about the trade. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
knucklehead91 Posted June 5, 2016 Share Posted June 5, 2016 I am lovin this trade more and more each day, I can't wait for the draft/free agency. We won this trade big time! That interview with Gudbranson was impressive, the way he talks and handles questions, you can tell he is a natural leader. I have no idea what Florida was thinking when they decided to give up a top 4 dman, with leadership qualities who is still entering his prime and will be an impactful player immediately, for a 19 year old who is going to take time to develop. Florida shot themselves in the foot on this trade and it is going to be tough for them to make playoffs next year if they do not replace Gudbranson with a legitimate 3/4 dman via free agency. Our back end is now stocked with young, somewhat matured players who will hold a steady spot and allow us to develop our defensive prospects. I really do hope we add Lucic, sure he may take some stupid penalties and walk a fine line doing his business on the ice, but he brings intimidation every shift. He finishes his checks, creates havoc in the crease, he is not scared to fight and he can make some pretty decent plays in the other end. We need Lucic to take on the role of replacing Prust for "answering" the bell when something happens to our stars. Dorsett isnt going to intimidate anyone. Who wants to answer to one of Gudbranson, Lucic, Tryamkin or Pedan?! Let Dorsett focus on the game and be a 4th line grinder and let those big dudes take on those duties. We will be a very tough team to play against, adding Lucic up front just makes dmen panic when skating back for the puck because he is not letting up. McCann showed some promise and signs that he will be a good player in the years to come, but its easy drafting forwards to reacquire what we traded away in him. You cant draft 6'5 dmen every time, especially ones with toughness and natural leadership. Great trade that helps now and in the future, I think this is Bennings best move thus far. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alflives Posted June 5, 2016 Share Posted June 5, 2016 9 hours ago, knucklehead91 said: I am lovin this trade more and more each day, I can't wait for the draft/free agency. We won this trade big time! That interview with Gudbranson was impressive, the way he talks and handles questions, you can tell he is a natural leader. I have no idea what Florida was thinking when they decided to give up a top 4 dman, with leadership qualities who is still entering his prime and will be an impactful player immediately, for a 19 year old who is going to take time to develop. Florida shot themselves in the foot on this trade and it is going to be tough for them to make playoffs next year if they do not replace Gudbranson with a legitimate 3/4 dman via free agency. Our back end is now stocked with young, somewhat matured players who will hold a steady spot and allow us to develop our defensive prospects. I really do hope we add Lucic, sure he may take some stupid penalties and walk a fine line doing his business on the ice, but he brings intimidation every shift. He finishes his checks, creates havoc in the crease, he is not scared to fight and he can make some pretty decent plays in the other end. We need Lucic to take on the role of replacing Prust for "answering" the bell when something happens to our stars. Dorsett isnt going to intimidate anyone. Who wants to answer to one of Gudbranson, Lucic, Tryamkin or Pedan?! Let Dorsett focus on the game and be a 4th line grinder and let those big dudes take on those duties. We will be a very tough team to play against, adding Lucic up front just makes dmen panic when skating back for the puck because he is not letting up. McCann showed some promise and signs that he will be a good player in the years to come, but its easy drafting forwards to reacquire what we traded away in him. You cant draft 6'5 dmen every time, especially ones with toughness and natural leadership. Great trade that helps now and in the future, I think this is Bennings best move thus far. I agree. I'm still flabbergasted to see some CANUCKS fans (or they claim to be, but I think they are fishing our board) are upset with the Gudbrandson trade. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
saucypass Posted June 5, 2016 Share Posted June 5, 2016 I'm now a supporter of the trade, with that being said, the Canucks have now traded 4 first round picks since 2010. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boddy604 Posted June 5, 2016 Share Posted June 5, 2016 36 minutes ago, suitup said: I'm now a supporter of the trade, with that being said, the Canucks have now traded 4 first round picks since 2010. Jensen was traded for Etem, another 1st round pick. McCann for Gudbranson, another 1st round pick. Hodgson for Kassian, another 1st round pick. And Kesler for a truckload including a 1st round pick. There were extra picks included but I think the only one the Canucks clearly lost in the end was the Hodgson/Kassian soap opera. It's not like they shipped out future stars and got nothing back. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
saucypass Posted June 5, 2016 Share Posted June 5, 2016 25 minutes ago, Boddy604 said: Jensen was traded for Etem, another 1st round pick. McCann for Gudbranson, another 1st round pick. Hodgson for Kassian, another 1st round pick. And Kesler for a truckload including a 1st round pick. There were extra picks included but I think the only one the Canucks clearly lost in the end was the Hodgson/Kassian soap opera. It's not like they shipped out future stars and got nothing back. I was not implying anything other than the fact that they have shipped out 4 first round picks since 2010. Just a fun fact I thought I'd share with everybody. To add, since 2001 or since the Sedins, the Vancouver Canucks have traded 11 first round picks. RJ Umberger 2001 A 1st round pick 2002 Ryan Kesler 2003 Cory Schneider 2004 Michael Grabner 2006 Patrick White 2007 Cody Hodgson 2008 A 1st round pick 2010 Nicklas Jensen 2011 Hunter Shinkaruk 2012 McCann 2014 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dazzle Posted June 5, 2016 Share Posted June 5, 2016 1 hour ago, suitup said: I was not implying anything other than the fact that they have shipped out 4 first round picks since 2010. Just a fun fact I thought I'd share with everybody. To add, since 2001 or since the Sedins, the Vancouver Canucks have traded 11 first round picks. RJ Umberger 2001 A 1st round pick 2002 Ryan Kesler 2003 Cory Schneider 2004 Michael Grabner 2006 Patrick White 2007 Cody Hodgson 2008 A 1st round pick 2010 Nicklas Jensen 2011 Hunter Shinkaruk 2012 McCann 2014 This is not a new discovery. We knew this prior to Gillis and we're even more aware of it with Benning at the helm. Benning's trying to fix the lack of depth that we had. There is a pretty big youth gap that came from trading first round picks. That being said, there were some years when trading them made sense. Patrick White's pick, for example, landed Erhoff, who was instrumental for the playoff run. Schneider -> Horvat (a high first round pick) The Michael Grabner trade was awful and probably the worst on that list. Grabner + a 1st (later turned out to be Quinton Howden) to FLA in exchange for Ballard. Sure, Howden didn't turn out to be good as most people predicted, but it was a TERRIBLE trade for an overpriced defenseman that FLA clearly wanted to get rid of. Nicklas Jensen -> Etem (another first rounder) Shinkaruk -> Baertschi, a high(er) 1st round pick. Kesler -> Bonino -> Sutter - all of whom were former first round picks. Sutter's never been injured prior to joining our team. McCann -> Gudbranson (a former high first round defenseman pick). I see where your point is, but it's not a very strong one. The only thing that I agree with is the 'lack of depth' part, but it's been well-known to people like Benning. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Honky Cat Posted June 5, 2016 Share Posted June 5, 2016 1 hour ago, Dazzle said: This is not a new discovery. We knew this prior to Gillis and we're even more aware of it with Benning at the helm. Benning's trying to fix the lack of depth that we had. There is a pretty big youth gap that came from trading first round picks. That being said, there were some years when trading them made sense. Patrick White's pick, for example, landed Erhoff, who was instrumental for the playoff run. Schneider -> Horvat (a high first round pick) The Michael Grabner trade was awful and probably the worst on that list. Grabner + a 1st (later turned out to be Quinton Howden) to FLA in exchange for Ballard. Sure, Howden didn't turn out to be good as most people predicted, but it was a TERRIBLE trade for an overpriced defenseman that FLA clearly wanted to get rid of. Nicklas Jensen -> Etem (another first rounder) Shinkaruk -> Baertschi, a high(er) 1st round pick. Kesler -> Bonino -> Sutter - all of whom were former first round picks. Sutter's never been injured prior to joining our team. McCann -> Gudbranson (a former high first round defenseman pick). I see where your point is, but it's not a very strong one. The only thing that I agree with is the 'lack of depth' part, but it's been well-known to people like Benning. The Ehrhoff trade was good,but in retrospect,Mike Gillis' biggest trades were not very good.IMO..The Ballard,Luongo and Schneider trades were nothing to write home about. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dazzle Posted June 5, 2016 Share Posted June 5, 2016 23 minutes ago, Honky Cat said: The Ehrhoff trade was good,but in retrospect,Mike Gillis' biggest trades were not very good.IMO..The Ballard,Luongo and Schneider trades were nothing to write home about. The Luongo trade was 'okay'. It was necessary, given the situation with him (and his family) and the team. Schneider's trade seemed very risky, given that Schneider had pretty much proven that he can play in the NHL at a very high level, in exchange for a draft pick (Horvat) who may or may not have turned out as good as he is. We were lucky that he was good, but what if he busted? Obviously, Gillis' relationship with other GMs were not very good. Benning, on the other hand, is much more personable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Canada Hockey Place Posted June 5, 2016 Share Posted June 5, 2016 Schneider for Horvat is one of the best trades in recent history. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Monty Posted June 5, 2016 Share Posted June 5, 2016 15 minutes ago, Canada Hockey Place said: Schneider for Horvat is one of the best trades in recent history. Agreed. The Devils got one of the leagues best goalies. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SilentSam Posted June 5, 2016 Share Posted June 5, 2016 1 hour ago, Honky Cat said: The Ehrhoff trade was good,but in retrospect,Mike Gillis' biggest trades were not very good.IMO..The Ballard,Luongo and Schneider trades were nothing to write home about. 45 minutes ago, Dazzle said: The Luongo trade was 'okay'. It was necessary, given the situation with him (and his family) and the team. Schneider's trade seemed very risky, given that Schneider had pretty much proven that he can play in the NHL at a very high level, in exchange for a draft pick (Horvat) who may or may not have turned out as good as he is. We were lucky that he was good, but what if he busted? Obviously, Gillis' relationship with other GMs were not very good. Benning, on the other hand, is much more personable. In defence of Gillis, it's been noted that ownership was playing a heavy hand in MG's decision making, the tipping point was when ownership wanted Tortarella here. To his credit, MG added the clause in the contract for compensation if Tortarella left the Canucks and was picked up by a club while he was still under contract. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dazzle Posted June 5, 2016 Share Posted June 5, 2016 3 minutes ago, SilentSam said: In defence of Gillis, it's been noted that ownership was playing a heavy hand in MG's decision making, the tipping point was when ownership wanted Tortarella here. To his credit, MG added the clause in the contract for compensation if Tortarella left the Canucks and was picked up by a club while he was still under contract. So it was ownership that decided that Luongo should sit out during the Winter Classic? Did Gillis not see the issues that could brew from Tortorella sitting a number 1 goalie in favor of a backup in Lack? Everyone had a responsibility. I really don't think FA could really be blamed for why relations with other GMs were soured. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SilentSam Posted June 5, 2016 Share Posted June 5, 2016 28 minutes ago, Dazzle said: So it was ownership that decided that Luongo should sit out during the Winter Classic? After all, that was Tortorella's decision. At some point, there's more to this than "ownership issues". Everyone had a responsibility. "Everyone had a responsibility". And that is what I was trying to point out here, thank-you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Salacious Crumb Posted June 5, 2016 Share Posted June 5, 2016 2 hours ago, Canada Hockey Place said: Schneider for Horvat is one of the best trades in recent history. Great for both teams - pretty rare. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
saucypass Posted June 6, 2016 Share Posted June 6, 2016 8 hours ago, Dazzle said: This is not a new discovery. We knew this prior to Gillis and we're even more aware of it with Benning at the helm. Benning's trying to fix the lack of depth that we had. There is a pretty big youth gap that came from trading first round picks. That being said, there were some years when trading them made sense. Patrick White's pick, for example, landed Erhoff, who was instrumental for the playoff run. Schneider -> Horvat (a high first round pick) The Michael Grabner trade was awful and probably the worst on that list. Grabner + a 1st (later turned out to be Quinton Howden) to FLA in exchange for Ballard. Sure, Howden didn't turn out to be good as most people predicted, but it was a TERRIBLE trade for an overpriced defenseman that FLA clearly wanted to get rid of. Nicklas Jensen -> Etem (another first rounder) Shinkaruk -> Baertschi, a high(er) 1st round pick. Kesler -> Bonino -> Sutter - all of whom were former first round picks. Sutter's never been injured prior to joining our team. McCann -> Gudbranson (a former high first round defenseman pick). I see where your point is, but it's not a very strong one. The only thing that I agree with is the 'lack of depth' part, but it's been well-known to people like Benning. If you read my posts before, I'm actually a supporter of this trade. I also mentioned that I'm not trying to make any point here. I'm just trying to show posters some fun facts that even I didn't know until I searched them up myself. I just thought it was interesting we gave up so many picks in the first round since the Sedins. Of course there are pros and cons to each trade, the only point that my post would even try to make is that we've made a surprsingl large amount of trades with the first round. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dazzle Posted June 6, 2016 Share Posted June 6, 2016 2 hours ago, suitup said: If you read my posts before, I'm actually a supporter of this trade. I also mentioned that I'm not trying to make any point here. I'm just trying to show posters some fun facts that even I didn't know until I searched them up myself. I just thought it was interesting we gave up so many picks in the first round since the Sedins. Of course there are pros and cons to each trade, the only point that my post would even try to make is that we've made a surprsingl large amount of trades with the first round. Sure we did, but we didn't trade our first round picks and get nothing back in return. However, our lack of depth is mostly due to our picks from other rounds not panning out. We've had some awful Nonis and Gillis picks over the years. Of course there were some good picks. It seems that Benning has done better than what those two have done though for all the rounds so far, though it's a small sample size. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
elvis15 Posted June 6, 2016 Share Posted June 6, 2016 8 hours ago, SilentSam said: In defence of Gillis, it's been noted that ownership was playing a heavy hand in MG's decision making, the tipping point was when ownership wanted Tortarella here. To his credit, MG added the clause in the contract for compensation if Tortarella left the Canucks and was picked up by a club while he was still under contract. Gillis didn't add anything to the contract to get that compensation. It was a league-wide rule in place by default that was recently dropped. 8 hours ago, Dazzle said: So it was ownership that decided that Luongo should sit out during the Winter Classic? Did Gillis not see the issues that could brew from Tortorella sitting a number 1 goalie in favor of a backup in Lack? Everyone had a responsibility. I really don't think FA could really be blamed for why relations with other GMs were soured. Why would ownership decide what is a coach's choice? Sure, it had implications, but Torts wasn't Gillis' choice to begin with so do you think ownership was going to let him overrule their choice for bench boss? He was already neutered in wanting to start the rebuild and wasn't going to win that battle anyway. Sure, it seemed he didn't get on with other GMs (but any of his peers wouldn't have let that get in the way of a good trade) but Luongo was not his fault (and having to trade Schneider as well). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dazzle Posted June 6, 2016 Share Posted June 6, 2016 Just now, elvis15 said: Gillis didn't add anything to the contract to get that compensation. It was a league-wide rule in place by default that was recently dropped. Why would ownership decide what is a coach's choice? Sure, it had implications, but Torts wasn't Gillis' choice to begin with so do you think ownership was going to let him overrule their choice for bench boss? He was already neutered in wanting to start the rebuild and wasn't going to win that battle anyway. Sure, it seemed he didn't get on with other GMs (but any of his peers wouldn't have let that get in the way of a good trade) but Luongo was not his fault (and having to trade Schneider as well). Then ownership shot themselves in the foot by alienating their top goalie because of that incident. That game wasn't the appropriate venue to 'prove a point'. Subsequently, this incident, along with various other ones led to Luongo asking for a trade out. Gillis, of course, wasn't able to get the full value of any trades, due to the fact that Luongo only wanted to be in one place (potentially two, if you were to include Tampa, in Florida). I'm not so sure that ownership made the right move by letting Tortorella go with that game decision. They should've stepped in and intervened. My question is, why stand by idly watching one of your players become unhappy? The winter classic was a rare event - and the fact that Luongo had no role in it was a travesty. To some extent, it was Gillis' fault - sure he may have been handicapped on the trade, but he also held Luongo too long (or ownership forced him to). Either way, ownership AND Gillis share responsibility for that debacle, with or without Torts in the picture. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
elvis15 Posted June 6, 2016 Share Posted June 6, 2016 Ownership shot themselves in the foot by choosing Torts. Not much more too it than that. You hire a coach to make those decisions, not micro manage. Then again, you hire a GM to do that same, yet they certainly micro-managed him based on the rumours. Gillis at least tried to find a home for Luongo when Florida wouldn't and even couldn't make the deal, but Luongo vetoed anything not to his team of choice. It wasn't until Florida was actually capable of taking on Luongo's contract with the approval of management (that's a fact, not rumour) that they could finally make the trade. Not sure what else you expected him to do. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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