JustABandwagoner Posted June 6, 2016 Share Posted June 6, 2016 3 hours ago, elvis15 said: Ownership shot themselves in the foot by choosing Torts. Not much more too it than that. You hire a coach to make those decisions, not micro manage. Then again, you hire a GM to do that same, yet they certainly micro-managed him based on the rumours. Gillis at least tried to find a home for Luongo when Florida wouldn't and even couldn't make the deal, but Luongo vetoed anything not to his team of choice. It wasn't until Florida was actually capable of taking on Luongo's contract with the approval of management (that's a fact, not rumour) that they could finally make the trade. Not sure what else you expected him to do. Torts got us i) 6th overall pick ii) CBJ 2nd round pick iii) 10% chance at #1 OA. But we were just unlucky Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
insomniac604 Posted June 6, 2016 Share Posted June 6, 2016 Not gonna go off topic just replying to OP. After Jared was traded there were numerous reports about his "Hodgson" attitude. That he deserved more playing time when he didn't actually earn it. Do you remember the Mom's trip? Not sure which Mom it was, maybe Hutton's, but she said she liked everyone except "that one 19yo that I like to tease". At first I thought it was Virtanen because he's such a little $&!# starter. But after watching Hockey Wives and seeing his great relationship with Prust, then hearing the rumours about Jared after his exit, it makes me think that's who she was talking about. Virtanen went on record talking about how difficult it was to be a rookie for him and Jared because all of the vets offering advice. But it seems like he's the only one that got better because of it. Jared started his career off shaky by being pissed about being drafted in the 20's. If you think you're better than you're playing, you're gonna get traded. I hope he winds up as who he was projected to be. But if he's gonna be a crybaby, I'd rather have him elsewhere. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
saucypass Posted June 6, 2016 Share Posted June 6, 2016 4 hours ago, Dazzle said: Sure we did, but we didn't trade our first round picks and get nothing back in return. However, our lack of depth is mostly due to our picks from other rounds not panning out. We've had some awful Nonis and Gillis picks over the years. Of course there were some good picks. It seems that Benning has done better than what those two have done though for all the rounds so far, though it's a small sample size. Yes, again I'm not insinuating we got nothing in return. I'm just posting fun facts. No need to get defensive. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dazzle Posted June 6, 2016 Share Posted June 6, 2016 8 hours ago, elvis15 said: Ownership shot themselves in the foot by choosing Torts. Not much more too it than that. You hire a coach to make those decisions, not micro manage. Then again, you hire a GM to do that same, yet they certainly micro-managed him based on the rumours. Gillis at least tried to find a home for Luongo when Florida wouldn't and even couldn't make the deal, but Luongo vetoed anything not to his team of choice. It wasn't until Florida was actually capable of taking on Luongo's contract with the approval of management (that's a fact, not rumour) that they could finally make the trade. Not sure what else you expected him to do. Your first sentence of this post already hints at the fact that they (FA) was micromanaging. After all, it's been long rumoured that Torts was never a Gillis pick. The owner always has a say - it's his team. He shouldn't have let Torts go through with not playing Luongo. It was bad decision making for the coach and it caused bad blood. Owner should've seen this coming. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alflives Posted June 6, 2016 Share Posted June 6, 2016 23 minutes ago, Dazzle said: Your first sentence of this post already hints at the fact that they (FA) was micromanaging. After all, it's been long rumoured that Torts was never a Gillis pick. The owner always has a say - it's his team. He shouldn't have let Torts go through with not playing Luongo. It was bad decision making for the coach and it caused bad blood. Owner should've seen this coming. Maybe the owner was behind the decision, in an attempt to get Luongo to waive? There is a lot that is going on behind the scenes with Aqualini. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
elvis15 Posted June 6, 2016 Share Posted June 6, 2016 10 hours ago, DontMessMe said: Torts got us i) 6th overall pick ii) CBJ 2nd round pick iii) 10% chance at #1 OA. But we were just unlucky If that's what we were going for, then it would have been great if the owners had also given the GM the green light for the rebuild. Not only would we've gotten better than the 6th overall (and a chance at the #1) that year, but also the following year with the McDavid draft. Think of it this way: we were unfortunately bad in what were slightly off years draft wise and didn't get as much reward in prospects. 2013 was maybe a little early to expect to be bad, but it was a draft year with MacKinnon, Barkov and Jones at the top (plus Drouin, whatever you think of him) and D-men like Ristolanen and Nurse right before our 9th overall we thankfully got in trade. Then we end up being bad again and drafting higher in 2014 but with a weaker draft class outside the top end before going back to 'improving' in 2015 (thankfully getting Boeser at 23rd) but missing out on at least a lottery chance at McDavid and also some top D options in Hanafin, Provorov and Werenski. We're bad again but finally in a good draft year and we're unlucky with the lottery so we miss out on Matthews and the two Finns. Managing the rebuild better could have really given us some excellent options around prospects and the draft these past few years, even without 1st overalls. We still could have easily fired Torts and gotten the compensation pick at any time of course as well. 5 hours ago, Dazzle said: Your first sentence of this post already hints at the fact that they (FA) was micromanaging. After all, it's been long rumoured that Torts was never a Gillis pick. The owner always has a say - it's his team. He shouldn't have let Torts go through with not playing Luongo. It was bad decision making for the coach and it caused bad blood. Owner should've seen this coming. That's what I've been saying. Gillis' reigns were shortened too much. Maybe that was a by-product of hiring a rookie GM or maybe it was just the owners wanting to supercede management's recommendations. The owner will always have a say - it's their money after all - but good owners hire the correct people to make the right decisions and then trust them with it. Aquilini could have seen what a number of us saw coming before Torts was even hired: the poor handling of players, the outbursts on the bench and in the locker rooms, the surliness with the media - all resulting in a pretty dismal season even after a strong start. 4 hours ago, Alflives said: Maybe the owner was behind the decision, in an attempt to get Luongo to waive? There is a lot that is going on behind the scenes with Aqualini. Luongo had already waived - to Florida. The problem was he hadn't waived anywhere else and that's why he hadn't been traded. It'd make some sense if that had been to get him to open up his list of teams, but he still ended up being traded to Florida. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gaudette Celly Posted June 7, 2016 Share Posted June 7, 2016 On 6/5/2016 at 9:45 AM, suitup said: I was not implying anything other than the fact that they have shipped out 4 first round picks since 2010. Just a fun fact I thought I'd share with everybody. And acquired at least 10: Gudbranson Etem Sutter Baertschi McCann Horvat Kassian Ballard Higgins Parent Fun facts! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dazzle Posted June 7, 2016 Share Posted June 7, 2016 54 minutes ago, Hutton Wink said: And acquired at least 10: Gudbranson Etem Sutter Baertschi McCann Horvat Kassian Ballard Higgins Parent Fun facts! It is ridiculous that he calls it 'fun facts', when it's a veiled attempt to take pot shots at team management, without providing the rest of the information that completes the picture. So yeah, they're fun facts. Another fun fact is that we have a lot of Swedish players. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
saucypass Posted June 7, 2016 Share Posted June 7, 2016 1 hour ago, Hutton Wink said: And acquired at least 10: Gudbranson Etem Sutter Baertschi McCann Horvat Kassian Ballard Higgins Parent Fun facts! Yep! Pretty glad they did. I liked the Horvat, Etem, Gudbranson, and Baertschi the most. Ironic how McCann is on both mine and your list. I think the Higgins and Ballard ones were good because they helped the 2011 Cup Final happen. Too bad they started going downhill after. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
saucypass Posted June 7, 2016 Share Posted June 7, 2016 31 minutes ago, Dazzle said: It is ridiculous that he calls it 'fun facts', when it's a veiled attempt to take pot shots at team management, without providing the rest of the information that completes the picture. So yeah, they're fun facts. Another fun fact is that we have a lot of Swedish players. It's not a shot, can you please stop being so defensive? How can I being taking a shot at management when I include names traded for players like Horvat, Baertschi, Etem, and even supported the Gudbranson trade? It's a fun fact because it goes all the way back to since the Sedins, something I didn't even know myself. It doesn't have to be a shot at management, apart from the Shinkaruk trade, I've never bashed management or called people names like other posters have been. Why are you so set on trying to make me seem like I hate management? Also having a lot of Swedish players on your tea isn't a fun fact, it's something so blatantly obvious. Keeping track of all trades dating back to the Sedins is not. I think you need to just calm down and not be so defensive. Not everything I have to say have to be against management. Check my previous posts bud. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
saucypass Posted June 7, 2016 Share Posted June 7, 2016 Okay look guys @Dazzle and @Hutton Wink , I apologize if it sermed like I was trying to make management look bad. I can definitely see why it would come off that way now, but if you guys knew me and my posts, I'm actually a supporter to Jim Benning and what Trevor Linden has done. Granted I was definitely against the Shinkaruk trade, I'm actually a supporter of what they have done to the team so far. Some of my favorites by the Canucks (not just from the current regime) over the years include: Horvat Etem McCann Baertschi (Didn't trade away a first for, but acquired as a former 1st) Anyways, I'm loving the size and beef this team has with Gudbranson. The opportunity of landing PLD definitely made McCann expendable. I liked him as a player and don't really buy into him being an awful person, so I wish him the best of luck. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gollumpus Posted June 7, 2016 Share Posted June 7, 2016 On 6/5/2016 at 9:45 AM, suitup said: I was not implying anything other than the fact that they have shipped out 4 first round picks since 2010. Just a fun fact I thought I'd share with everybody. To add, since 2001 or since the Sedins, the Vancouver Canucks have traded 11 first round picks. RJ Umberger 2001 A 1st round pick 2002 Ryan Kesler 2003 Cory Schneider 2004 Michael Grabner 2006 Patrick White 2007 Cody Hodgson 2008 A 1st round pick 2010 Nicklas Jensen 2011 Hunter Shinkaruk 2012 McCann 2014 As it is, this is misleading, and even useless information, presented in this manner to stir the pot. Defend yourself as you will, you're trolling, but have fun with it. If one was interested, one could look at many of the teams in the NHL and get similar results. Did you know that Detroit has traded away nine 1st round picks since 1999? That's the actual pick, not a player who was a former 1st round pick, and by this I mean that they did without a 1st round pick in nine of the last seventeen drafts, not that used their 1st as a chip to move up or down in the 1st round. regards, G. PS - LA traded away at least 10 1st rounders as you estimate them (picks and players) and lost a few others as UFAs for various reasons. Yeah, facts are fun. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
saucypass Posted June 7, 2016 Share Posted June 7, 2016 1 hour ago, Gollumpus said: As it is, this is misleading, and even useless information, presented in this manner to stir the pot. Defend yourself as you will, you're trolling, but have fun with it. If one was interested, one could look at many of the teams in the NHL and get similar results. Did you know that Detroit has traded away nine 1st round picks since 1999? That's the actual pick, not a player who was a former 1st round pick, and by this I mean that they did without a 1st round pick in nine of the last seventeen drafts, not that used their 1st as a chip to move up or down in the 1st round. regards, G. PS - LA traded away at least 10 1st rounders as you estimate them (picks and players) and lost a few others as UFAs for various reasons. Yeah, facts are fun. You're exactly right, it IS useless information, which is why it's just a fun fact. Again, I assumed informed posters much like yourself and others would be able to see that there are great trades in trading first round picks and bad ones. They are just what they are, trades. I now can see why people are getting mad, but it is not my intention. I've been around these boards for quite a while and I do not have a history of being a troll or posting anything like it. I simply said they were traded away, and if you were to look at the post before, you would see that I'm not posting it to piss people off. Again, I apologize if people were pissed off by what I said but I genuinely didn't mean to imply anything other than the fact that those things I listed were being dealt. In fact I feel like our team has become better because of it especially with thr McCann trade. I actually didn't know that about LA or Detroit and I'm glad you brought it up, it seems like we're doing something right if those previous cup winners have done the same. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derp... Posted June 7, 2016 Share Posted June 7, 2016 Most players get traded. It is what it is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cripplereh Posted June 7, 2016 Share Posted June 7, 2016 true as every GM is looking for the right fit with lines or taking a chance on someone Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gollumpus Posted June 7, 2016 Share Posted June 7, 2016 6 hours ago, suitup said: You're exactly right, it IS useless information, which is why it's just a fun fact. Again, I assumed informed posters much like yourself and others would be able to see that there are great trades in trading first round picks and bad ones. They are just what they are, trades. I now can see why people are getting mad, but it is not my intention. I've been around these boards for quite a while and I do not have a history of being a troll or posting anything like it. I simply said they were traded away, and if you were to look at the post before, you would see that I'm not posting it to piss people off. Again, I apologize if people were pissed off by what I said but I genuinely didn't mean to imply anything other than the fact that those things I listed were being dealt. In fact I feel like our team has become better because of it especially with thr McCann trade. I actually didn't know that about LA or Detroit and I'm glad you brought it up, it seems like we're doing something right if those previous cup winners have done the same. regards, G. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
saucypass Posted June 7, 2016 Share Posted June 7, 2016 Just now, Gollumpus said: regards, G. Why was that quoted post stirring the pot? Sure I can now see why my initial one was but that last one is an apology and was trying to clear things up. If you insist with your condescending and patronizing GIFS then alright. Apologies to everybody who felt antagonized by my post. I for one think trading some of those 1 rounders were a great idea. Like Schneider, Jensen, McCann, Kesler (Cancer in the locker room), just to clear things up and to name a few. If I wanted to be a troll I think I would've kept pressing on that issue instead of apologizing for agreeing with everybody else's stance on the issue. But I've said enough on the matter and will continue posting about other things now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
saucypass Posted June 7, 2016 Share Posted June 7, 2016 I remember getting told off a while ago for claiming McCann having similar to Schmaltz a while back. I was wondering how people feel about that now? Granted I do think McCann has more value than Schmaltz having played in the NHL already, while Schmaltz has a lot to prove. But I've watched some UND games and Schmaltz is really great. Do you guys think that Florida would've done the trade if the package included Schmaltz instead of McCann? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
73 Percent Posted June 7, 2016 Share Posted June 7, 2016 36 minutes ago, suitup said: I remember getting told off a while ago for claiming McCann having similar to Schmaltz a while back. I was wondering how people feel about that now? Granted I do think McCann has more value than Schmaltz having played in the NHL already, while Schmaltz has a lot to prove. But I've watched some UND games and Schmaltz is really great. Do you guys think that Florida would've done the trade if the package included Schmaltz instead of McCann? Personally i think schmaltz will have a better career than McCann and may even be the better player now. Hard to judge like you said due to schmaltz not having played a game in the nhl yet while mccann jas some success already. That being said, i would say florida would also accept that package with schmaltz instead of McCann. This is an example of the bidding war that benning avoided by lulling the trigger on the deal early. Chicago could easily adjust the package to include the now expendable tevo and we cant match, losing out on our chance at gudbranson. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
saucypass Posted June 7, 2016 Share Posted June 7, 2016 4 hours ago, Gooseberries said: Personally i think schmaltz will have a better career than McCann and may even be the better player now. Hard to judge like you said due to schmaltz not having played a game in the nhl yet while mccann jas some success already. That being said, i would say florida would also accept that package with schmaltz instead of McCann. This is an example of the bidding war that benning avoided by lulling the trigger on the deal early. Chicago could easily adjust the package to include the now expendable tevo and we cant match, losing out on our chance at gudbranson. Yeah after watching Schmaltz this year at UND, I really feel like we should've taken a run at a package with Hamhuis+ eat some cap and help Chicago load up for a deep cup run in exchange for Schmaltz and whatever moving parts Chicago needs to make the deal happen. Maybe instead of trading for Granlund we could've had something like Hamhuis+Shinkaruk for Schmaltz+Bickell+conditional 2nd (3rd if they don't make it to the conference)? This way Hamhuis trades cap space with Bickell, we take his (Bickell's) cap space off their hands. Shinkaruk is a downgrade from Schmaltz for the Hawks and Hamhuis being a rental makes up the difference and the conditional pick makes up for any value lost in between. I don't usually make proposals and not sure if I'm any good at it but I gave it my best shot at this one haha. Yeah I totally agree with your second paragraph there. I know people were kind of harsh on JB for adding in the 2nd but I feel like that's what stopped a bidding war from happening. I think it was a smart move by JB for sure. I can't even imagine how complete Chicago's defense would look with Gudbranson back there, and his youth would make their team's competitiveness so much more sustainable in the long run. There's news actually that the Hawks are dangling Teuvo in order to get rid of Bickell. Do you think the Canucks should bite? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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