HorvatToBaertschi Posted October 17, 2016 Share Posted October 17, 2016 4 hours ago, khay said: I think his downside is that he is not as good a passer and is not able to make a quick pass out of the zone or be able to make plays in the offensive zone to prolong the possession. But speed is not his weakness. He has all the physical tools. Hé has an amazing first pass And vision actually..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boudrias Posted October 17, 2016 Share Posted October 17, 2016 No way can anything think that the Van d-core is comparable to last year. Obviously injuries haven't happened yet and the lose of Edler and periods of Tanev gone certainly did not help. That considered in the two games played to date all the d-men are contributing to a far more solid effort. Gudbranson in a quiet way is providing a physical presence which to some extent Hutton is overshadowing with his offensive performance. Combine that with the return of Edler's physical game and what seems to be the emergence of Sbisa and the core is looking good. Comparing the relative strengths of McCann and Gudbranson at this time is not fair to McCann. He is a young player who is still trying to find his NHL game. EG is established. The need for EG in Van was much more than Florida for McCann. McCann has time but Van needs performance from EG now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aGENT Posted October 17, 2016 Share Posted October 17, 2016 7 hours ago, HorvatToBaertschi said: Hé has an amazing first pass And vision actually..... Made a couple pretty nice passes to the forwards last night. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tre Mac Posted October 17, 2016 Share Posted October 17, 2016 18 hours ago, fanofvan said: Gudbranson is slow? For his size, I'd say he moves very well and I'm sure the Calgary forward who he swept the puck away from on the partial breakaway would agree. Will if Ferlund didn't blow by him(twice on one shift) he wouldn't of needed to make that desperation diving poke check. Sorry but he's looking slow out there, hopefully it's just offseason rust. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bobbyg43 Posted October 17, 2016 Share Posted October 17, 2016 Just now, Tre Mac said: Will if Ferlund didn't blow by him(twice on one shift) he wouldn't of needed to make that desperation diving poke check. Sorry but he's looking slow out there, hopefully it's just offseason rust. HE made adjustment after that shift with his pinching, the flames are a decent break out team .HE is still learning wc teams he will be fine an a beast down the stretch run. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VegasCanuck Posted October 17, 2016 Share Posted October 17, 2016 So far, I think this is a pretty good trade for both teams. It looks like McCann, so far, is getting 4th line minutes, less than 10 min per night. From an immediate impact measurement, we did pretty well here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Warhippy Posted October 17, 2016 Share Posted October 17, 2016 Whoa really? We're still doing this? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GB5 Posted October 17, 2016 Share Posted October 17, 2016 1 hour ago, Tre Mac said: Will if Ferlund didn't blow by him(twice on one shift) he wouldn't of needed to make that desperation diving poke check. Sorry but he's looking slow out there, hopefully it's just offseason rust. Gunny has been money for the entertainment he brings, he has crushed a couple guys and has been really solid. Poor guy will always be under the microscope from the no-fun analytics people which is a shame. The sweetheart of those guys, Tanev has had a poor start with a rash of bad penalties but you don't hear me complaining. The only real mistakes Gunny has made has been a result of poor communication with his defensive partner but these things usually fix themselves fairly quick. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldnews Posted October 17, 2016 Share Posted October 17, 2016 13 hours ago, khay said: I think his downside is that he is not as good a passer and is not able to make a quick pass out of the zone or be able to make plays in the offensive zone to prolong the possession. But speed is not his weakness. He has all the physical tools. Could not disagree more regarding his first pass - and like his ability to pinch and preserve ozone possession. Is he a pmd - no - but claiming he is 'not a good passer' - I think you should wait another month and get back to us once you've seen more of him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
khay Posted October 17, 2016 Share Posted October 17, 2016 29 minutes ago, oldnews said: Could not disagree more regarding his first pass - and like his ability to pinch and preserve ozone possession. Is he a pmd - no - but claiming he is 'not a good passer' - I think you should wait another month and get back to us once you've seen more of him. Yep. I agree with you and would like to retract what I said. As always, I'm always happy when the player proves me wrong regarding my negative comments. Sutter's passes were great last night, in particular the one that set up Granlund's goal (the initial pass to Hansen was right on the tape). But I still think that Granlund improves that line tremendously, which was the reason why I brought up Sutter's passing abilities. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldnews Posted October 17, 2016 Share Posted October 17, 2016 2 minutes ago, khay said: Yep. I agree with you and would like to retract what I said. As always, I'm always happy when the player proves me wrong regarding my negative comments. Sutter's passes were great last night, in particular the one that set up Granlund's goal (the initial pass to Hansen was right on the tape). But I still think that Granlund improves that line tremendously, which was the reason why I brought up Sutter's passing abilities. I thought you were referring to Gudbranson tbh. Sutter - I think there were a lot of unsubstantiated claims made about him by a few weak 'analytics' wannabees who assumed that he lacks vision and is a poor passer because of his assist / primary assist numbers in Pittsburgh. What they failed to look at however is who his linemates were and the context of his play. His production - in context - was actually pretty impressive and as usual, cherry-picking a statistic out of context leads to erroneous 'analytics' as often as it says anything meaningful about the player. Playing bottom six, shutdown minutes with Craig Adams, Tanner Glass, Steve Downie, Nick Spaling - not going to lead to lofty assist totals. But making the assumption that he can't pass the puck based on that is not analytics - it's short-sightedness. Scoring 20 goals in that context ought to have lead to a lot more discussion than his 'lack of upside' but hey, people see what they want to see and have their own bent when attempting to represent a trade. Sutter is a perfect example of absolutely horrible analytics having negative value - misrepresenting a player Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Angry Goose Posted October 17, 2016 Share Posted October 17, 2016 9 hours ago, HorvatToBaertschi said: Hé has an amazing first pass And vision actually..... I don't think enough people have mentioned this. I've seen him do a few clean and composed cross ice, 2 line passes to get out of the D zone. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
khay Posted October 17, 2016 Share Posted October 17, 2016 16 minutes ago, oldnews said: I thought you were referring to Gudbranson tbh. Sutter - I think there were a lot of unsubstantiated claims made about him by a few weak 'analytics' wannabees who assumed that he lacks vision and is a poor passer because of his assist / primary assist numbers in Pittsburgh. What they failed to look at however is who his linemates were and the context of his play. His production - in context - was actually pretty impressive and as usual, cherry-picking a statistic out of context leads to erroneous 'analytics' as often as it says anything meaningful about the player. Playing bottom six, shutdown minutes with Craig Adams, Tanner Glass, Steve Downie, Nick Spaling - not going to lead to lofty assist totals. But making the assumption that he can't pass the puck based on that is not analytics - it's short-sightedness. Scoring 20 goals in that context ought to have lead to a lot more discussion than his 'lack of upside' but hey, people see what they want to see and have their own bent when attempting to represent a trade. Sutter is a perfect example of absolutely horrible analytics having negative value - misrepresenting a player Sorry for the confusion, I was just reading about Sutter when I decided to respond, which let me to believe that it was about Sutter. Just to finish commenting about Sutter. Yeah, you are absolutely right about Sutter and the context that he was placed in Pittsburgh. I never judged him based on that. Just based on what I saw, i thought Sutter lacked a bit of soft touch and accurate timing in his passing. He is not bad passer by any means but I don't think he is the type of player that can prolong possession of the puck with his passing. He needs a player who can handle the puck, a main distributor of the puck to play alongside him in the offensive zone. If not, we are doing to him what Pittsburgh did to him. About Gudbranson, I think his physical abilities as well as his abilities to read defensive situations are his greatest assets. And I think he knows how to use his teammates effectively, which I think is probably the most important asset and it makes him an even better player. And I didn't say he is a bad passer. I said he is not as good a passer. But, yeah from what I have seen, I don't think his passing is "soft" enough to get out of pinch. But, he does use his teammates well so may not even be a problem. Anyways, I would like to be wrong about this and like you said, let's watch few more games before we make further comments. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kloubek Posted October 17, 2016 Share Posted October 17, 2016 3 hours ago, VegasCanuck said: From an immediate impact measurement, we did pretty well here. ...but we all knew the impact was likely to be in our favour immediately. McCann was simply not ready for the big leagues yet, and it will take at least a couple more years before he is anywhere close to showing the kind of player he is going to be. I still believe we likely lost the trade, but in those two years McCann is developing his NHL game, we reap the rewards of having a solid, big, defensive defenseman. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldnews Posted October 17, 2016 Share Posted October 17, 2016 54 minutes ago, khay said: Sorry for the confusion, I was just reading about Sutter when I decided to respond, which let me to believe that it was about Sutter. Just to finish commenting about Sutter. Yeah, you are absolutely right about Sutter and the context that he was placed in Pittsburgh. I never judged him based on that. Just based on what I saw, i thought Sutter lacked a bit of soft touch and accurate timing in his passing. He is not bad passer by any means but I don't think he is the type of player that can prolong possession of the puck with his passing. He needs a player who can handle the puck, a main distributor of the puck to play alongside him in the offensive zone. If not, we are doing to him what Pittsburgh did to him. About Gudbranson, I think his physical abilities as well as his abilities to read defensive situations are his greatest assets. And I think he knows how to use his teammates effectively, which I think is probably the most important asset and it makes him an even better player. And I didn't say he is a bad passer. I said he is not as good a passer. But, yeah from what I have seen, I don't think his passing is "soft" enough to get out of pinch. But, he does use his teammates well so may not even be a problem. Anyways, I would like to be wrong about this and like you said, let's watch few more games before we make further comments. I don't think his role will be as a playmaking center. I think he has a set of assets the team needs - good right handed finisher for the powerplay (something Kesler provided - and he wasn't exactly a playmaker himself). Good speed and can score on the counterpunch / rush - complementing his shutdown/dzone starts well. Ditto where penalty killing is concerned - a great penalty killer who is a thread short-handed for the reason just stated. Right handed faceoff guy - who adds to team speed - two things that Bonino (a great player imo) did not represent (lacking in our assets). His passing doesn't need to be his primary strength - but imo people are underestimating his vision - who knows - we'll see, but I think Sutter's upside is going to be far more evident here than it's been in the past - because of his expanding role, and the quality of the linemates he'll be playing with. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NHL97OneTimer Posted October 17, 2016 Share Posted October 17, 2016 21 hours ago, J.R. said: *Not actually slow. I'm not sure where some of you guys get this stuff. Anyway... hopefully it's becoming more apparent why some of us were SO stoked when this trade went down. Hey, read my post....I wasn't heartbroken with the deal at all (it was good) and I think Guddy will be fine. I just don't think McCann should be written off as someone who won't make it as an NHL regular. There was lots that we were excited about with McCann in the first half of last season. Guddy slow? That has been the criticism with him and it's not an unfair criticism. Hey, we need a guy like him on the team but we can't pump up the tires with all parts of his game because he's now a Canuck. Guys trash Edler all the time on this board but Edler is a big boy with better mobility. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aGENT Posted October 17, 2016 Share Posted October 17, 2016 1 minute ago, NHL97OneTimer said: Guddy slow? That has been the criticism with him and it's not an unfair criticism. Yeah, actually it is. The guy's not going to waterbug his way around the ice like a few, small, talented forwards can but he's very, VERY far from slow. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NHL97OneTimer Posted October 18, 2016 Share Posted October 18, 2016 15 minutes ago, J.R. said: Yeah, actually it is. The guy's not going to waterbug his way around the ice like a few, small, talented forwards can but he's very, VERY far from slow. We'll agree to disagree. He's fast enough for the average NHLer but any of the quicker forwards in the league will have less problems getting around him in the open ice vs our other starting defensemen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Warhippy Posted October 18, 2016 Share Posted October 18, 2016 9 minutes ago, NHL97OneTimer said: We'll agree to disagree. He's fast enough for the average NHLer but any of the quicker forwards in the league will have less problems getting around him in the open ice vs our other starting defensemen. Luckily D pairings are made with 2 guys with varying skill sets :D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aGENT Posted October 18, 2016 Share Posted October 18, 2016 1 hour ago, NHL97OneTimer said: We'll agree to disagree. He's fast enough for the average NHLer but any of the quicker forwards in the league will have less problems getting around him in the open ice vs our other starting defensemen. The fastest fowards in the league have little problem getting around most D. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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