Jump to content
The Official Site of the Vancouver Canucks
Canucks Community

Benning Doesn't Get Enough Credit


Mattrek

Recommended Posts

It's apparent that Benning has a clear vision about what this team will look like and that he's not intimidated by criticism from the  irrational underlings at CDC, he'll swing for the fences on his terms.

 

Unless you think it's possible to please everyone all the time, it's unavoidable that the crazies on CDC will question every move made.  The results show that his team made the playoffs against every pundits prediction his first year.

 

The first round exit against Calgary left a lot to be desired and most expected a total rebuild as the year began to fall apart after Christmas with a streak of untimely injuries and a growing chorus by tank nation loonies to blow it all up.

 

The perceived mistake of not appeasing the trade deadline expectations for moving Vrbata and Hamhuis sent the arm chair crazies into tantrums with convulsions of hate for JB.

 

Still, his injury depleted rookie team took out all three Cali teams fighting for home ice advantage the last month heading into the playoffs as the team committed the egregious act of fighting to the end to maintain a culture of not accepting defeat.

 

With no guaranteed dividend, the fools strategy of tanking brought more tears than a rainy day in October when we dropped to the 5th overall pick from the 3rd spot on lottery day.

 

JB just added a major missing piece to rebuilding our defence with the Gudbranson trade along with landing Tryamkin. The can't miss asset we acquire with the 5th OA along with another trade and a FA acquisition should allow us to contend for the playoffs.

 

Most of the first year lineup has been reworked, one can criticize every move and some of it is justified, but you can't question results, JB has done a great job of picking talent and a very admirable job overall in his first 24 months.

 

 

 

 

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

The big thing that I see is we have a lot more players that are on the right side of their careers. In other words we have more players that will improve as they age and gain experience than we have that are declining due to age. The team now has a lot of potential. We as fans just have to hope more players then not reach thir potential.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I don't really hate any of Benning's trades but I am confused as to what exactly his direction is.

 

We can all agree that reason he is trading picks and assets is because of the "Gillis" gap. Well, unfortunately, Benning could be making his own gap with rushing this rebuild. The timing of that gap may be even worse then the one left by Gillis. Right about the time the Sedin's retire. 

 

He has traded FAR more 2nd rnd picks then he has drafted. With his scouting background that might be a huge opportunity lost. We are the 3rd worse team in the league yet we have less picks then a lot of the teams that made the playoffs. Even Bob Mac is confused. 

 

How people can say the players he has drafted are home runs is absolutely ridiculous. None of them including Brock Boeser have proven anything in the NHL.  

 

We are a team that should be stocking up for the inevitable departure of the Sedin's and Edler. We might be feeling some pain 5 years from now. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

13 hours ago, DefCon1 said:

But Gudbranson is something we have missing while McCann is something we already have in the lineup (Horvat, Sutter) as a centre and he is someone we can easily replace in this draft. We have H. Sedin, Sutter, Horvat, Gaunce, Cassels as centres right now and we will probably add PLD who is better than McCann. The question would be where that would leave McCann. Its always better to trade from area of depth to fill an area we are lacking such as D. Even with the addition of Gudbranson, we still need to add some more to it to become competitive again. 

I don't understand people here in BC, we are supposed to be educated when it comes to hockey. It doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure out we had depth at center and needed big time help on our blue line. This was a great hockey trade and and regardless how McCann turns out it doesn't matter what matters is we got a very good top 4 D man with size anda physical aspect to his game which is needed in the western conference. Don't get me wrong I am sure Benning is not done and will continue to improve this line up via a great draft pick and a few free agents then and only then will we know the extent of Bennings moves and what it will bring to next season and beyond.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

17 hours ago, Hockey Stache said:

Unfortunately, you have totally missed the meaning of the entire post. The OP is comparing the two teams and showing how the roster has changed for the better with a much better prospect pool. Not once did he ever compare either team to any other team in the NHL. It is so tiring to come on these boards and read about how negative so many people are about this team. Sure everyone can have their own opinion but it must be so hard being so negative all the time.

we easily have the worst fanbase in the nhl

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Jim Benning has this under control.

 

One day after getting Guds for Mccn 4th and 2nd he gets Nilsson. We  didn't draft him but by signing him it's like we recouped our 4th pick in this years draft. An added plus is that he's a few years along in his development as well, so he might be even better now than years past. Either way, deals like this are like picking in the draft,in the fourth round, where anything goes. 

 

Thats why people need to chill out and let JB steer the ship. He's getting $&!# done. He's not avoiding and ignoring our problems. He's addressing our biggest issues and he's doing a fair job evaluating and valuing talent. People lose their $&!# that a 4th became a 5th, in the Van-Flo Trade but when Mr.Benning goes and signs a 22 yo defensively and (potentially) offensively gifted d man, no one praises the man. Like seriously. Wtf

Link to comment
Share on other sites

18 hours ago, Hockey Stache said:

Unfortunately, you have totally missed the meaning of the entire post. The OP is comparing the two teams and showing how the roster has changed for the better with a much better prospect pool. Not once did he ever compare either team to any other team in the NHL. It is so tiring to come on these boards and read about how negative so many people are about this team. Sure everyone can have their own opinion but it must be so hard being so negative all the time.

When we were on the verge of winning the cup, people were negative and critical. Its just how some people are!

Link to comment
Share on other sites

9 hours ago, newgm said:

It's apparent that Benning has a clear vision about what this team will look like and that he's not intimidated by criticism from the  irrational underlings at CDC, he'll swing for the fences on his terms.

 

.....

 

Most of the first year lineup has been reworked, one can criticize every move and some of it is justified, but you can't question results, JB has done a great job of picking talent and a very admirable job overall in his first 24 months.

 

 

 

 

 

I am guessing Benning does not spend a lot of time reading CDC.

 

Benning does have a vision. It is actually just the opposite of the first chapter in "Moneyball", where the author makes the point that what matters in baseball is performance (as assessed by analytics), not whether the guys looks like good ballplayer or has good basic skills or attributes (like speed or size).

 

Hockey is different from baseball and it is also possible that the "moneyball" perspective has gone far and that gains can be made by being a contrarian (which Benning is at this stage).

 

Gudbranson is an absolutely classic example. By the eye test he looks like a great player. He is big, he is strong, he is a good skater, he has a hard shot, he passes the puck and handles the puck well, he plays a physical game, he block shots, and, as a bonus, he is good fighter who can keep the other teams honest if necessary. He is also well-liked by other players.  These are all reasons why he was a very high draft pick (#3 overall). WIth these skills and attributes, he looks like a guy who should be on track to be a top-of-depth-chart type player and maybe even a potential Norris candidate.

 

But his actual performance has not been anywhere near that good. He has been pretty good, and he is a legitimate top 4 D (but only barely). As that analytics guys have shown, his numbers are not that great. And we not just talking CORSI (shots). By a lot of measures he is okay but not as good as you would expect given his skill set.

 

Sutter was a similar story. So is Etem. So is Sbisa. So is Virtanen. And they all fit into the same vision: All first round picks, they all have size and very good basic skills, but have under-performed their draft positions in terms of results. Tryamkin and Pedan fit the same model, although they were not high draft picks. The downside is lower than average hockey IQ.  And, although Benning did not draft Horvat, he is very high on him as he also fits the model of having very good basic skills (but he does have a high hockey IQ, as do Baertschi and Boeser, and those guys also have very good skills). Tkachuk or Dubois at #5 overall would fit right in.

 

With all those guys in the line-up, the Canucks will be fast, big, physical and "hard to play against", with a high average skill level. Benning is obviously hoping that, with good coaching, good role models, and good team chemistry, and an environment where consistent high intensity effort is the norm,  these guys can all improve their games to level consistent with their underlying skill level.

 

As I indicated in my previous post, I think we should get a good read on whether the strategy is working next year.

 

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

11 hours ago, Brockbuster said:

Banning knows that to build a house you need to demolish the old one. Remember what Torts said... "This team is stale and needs changes" Ther's been a lot of dead wood carved out by Benning.

He's still carving more out. Weber's gone, Vrbata's gone, I'm 100% certain Higgins is getting bought out. Having new faces in the line up last year was huge. I mean, we sucked don't get me wrong, but there was a lot more energy being brought to the games. A bit of flare, which we haven't had since we beat Boston on their home ice in 2012. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Is our roster better than it was yesterday? Absolutely, and combining that with Tkachuk/Dubois and whatever free agent he can get here we would be icing a much better team.

But has it improved relatively versus the other teams in the west and our division? That remains to be seen.

Benning is playing a very dangerous game here and if that was his intention all along then props to him because the thought of it is making me queasy. We know we need to fill that age gap for drafting between 2005-2010 but with all the picks he is trading away he is taking the risk of creating his own gap in the future years if our team flops.

That means banking on finding gems with the minimal picks he has retained in rounds 3,5,6,7 to hit a player that can make the NHL and keep that flow of talent into our prospect pool coming. I liked what he did last year with his late round finds, but can he replicate this for the next few drafts. That'll be interesting to see.

 

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

3 hours ago, LaBamba said:

I don't really hate any of Benning's trades but I am confused as to what exactly his direction is.

 

We can all agree that reason he is trading picks and assets is because of the "Gillis" gap. Well, unfortunately, Benning could be making his own gap with rushing this rebuild. The timing of that gap may be even worse then the one left by Gillis. Right about the time the Sedin's retire. 

 

He has traded FAR more 2nd rnd picks then he has drafted. With his scouting background that might be a huge opportunity lost. We are the 3rd worse team in the league yet we have less picks then a lot of the teams that made the playoffs. Even Bob Mac is confused. 

 

How people can say the players he has drafted are home runs is absolutely ridiculous. None of them including Brock Boeser have proven anything in the NHL.  

 

We are a team that should be stocking up for the inevitable departure of the Sedin's and Edler. We might be feeling some pain 5 years from now. 

He's also brought in 1 extra first, so I guess we could say that he has drafted FAR more first round picks than he has traded.

 

Benning has made trades where he's moved out 4 second round picks. He's also made trades where 2 second round picks are coming back... as well as some pretty good players who will be here for some time.

 

The number of third round picks are even.

 

At fourth and lower, the Canucks are down 1 fourth, 1 fifth and 1 sixth, but up 1 seventh.

 

I'm going to go out on a limb and suggest that the extra first trumps the 2 seconds, the fourth, the fifth and the sixth that the team is down. This being said, if we are talking quantity over quality, then you have a case.

 

                                                            regards, G.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

One may not exactly like every move JB has made - but for the most the moves have been favourable for building a younger, faster and tougher team.  I sure hope he doesn't spend any time reading CDC - almost certain he would consider it a waste of time.  He was hired to do a job - not one of us armchair GM's made the cut. It will be an interesting summer take a look at the moves that have already been made - not even a month until the draft -  lots of moves still to come I think.

Next fall should be interesting once we see our new roster- I think it will be an interesting season. Let JB do his job - he has a vision and think he is keeping to the course he set out on.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

3 hours ago, Caknuckle Puck said:

we easily have the worst fanbase in the nhl

Wrong. I can see how you might think that, but you are confusing the haters, trolls and simpletons who unfortunately infest these boards, with actual Canucks fans.

 

For example, when the team addresses a crying need by filling a long-empty gaping void on the team with a very important, valuable, rare and extremely difficult-to-find piece, trading away less valuable and much easier-to-find pieces, the real Canucks fans are of course delighted. 

 

The team is obviously significantly better than it was last week, and the many fans who have posted their thoughts following the trade have expressed their joy over this.

 

The posters who have been using whatever pretexts they can manufacture to whine about the trade are obviously not actual Canucks fans. They are just disappointed that they will have less to troll about in the future, and they feel the need to vent their outrage that JB has dared to improve the team.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

2 hours ago, Gollumpus said:

He's also brought in 1 extra first, so I guess we could say that he has drafted FAR more first round picks than he has traded.

 

Benning has made trades where he's moved out 4 second round picks. He's also made trades where 2 second round picks are coming back... as well as some pretty good players who will be here for some time.

 

The number of third round picks are even.

 

At fourth and lower, the Canucks are down 1 fourth, 1 fifth and 1 sixth, but up 1 seventh.

 

I'm going to go out on a limb and suggest that the extra first trumps the 2 seconds, the fourth, the fifth and the sixth that the team is down. This being said, if we are talking quantity over quality, then you have a case.

 

                                                            regards, G.

Exactly this. Everyone is looking at what we've lost and don't seem to comprehend what we've gained.  Relax, give until after free agency to judge whether or not JB is doing a good job, because he's far from done. And I for one would much rather have quality over quantity. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

3 hours ago, Gollumpus said:

He's also brought in 1 extra first, so I guess we could say that he has drafted FAR more first round picks than he has traded.

 

Benning has made trades where he's moved out 4 second round picks. He's also made trades where 2 second round picks are coming back... as well as some pretty good players who will be here for some time.

 

The number of third round picks are even.

 

At fourth and lower, the Canucks are down 1 fourth, 1 fifth and 1 sixth, but up 1 seventh.

 

I'm going to go out on a limb and suggest that the extra first trumps the 2 seconds, the fourth, the fifth and the sixth that the team is down. This being said, if we are talking quantity over quality, then you have a case.

 

                                                            regards, G.

He also gets the 2nd from Torts.

 

Whether JB undervalues 2nds or other GMs overvalue them, his stategy of trading them for players remains to be seen. Perhaps JB is ahead of the curve, perhaps not.

 

Pretty much all of his moves remind me of when MG talked of bold moves - in a haha type of way.

 

Like or hate JB, he is a doer and not a wallflower!

Link to comment
Share on other sites

People keep sharing their criticism about how bad Jim Benning is at trading, however heres a small portion of what he has managed to do so far:

Gm Jim Benning took Kesler, Forsling(Fifth round pick), Two Second round picks, and a Fourth round pick and turned it into 
Sutter, Sbisa, Gudbranson, and a Fifth round pick.

Looks like a block buster trade in Vancouver's favour to me! 
 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

4 hours ago, Gollumpus said:

He's also brought in 1 extra first, so I guess we could say that he has drafted FAR more first round picks than he has traded.

 

Benning has made trades where he's moved out 4 second round picks. He's also made trades where 2 second round picks are coming back... as well as some pretty good players who will be here for some time.

 

The number of third round picks are even.

 

At fourth and lower, the Canucks are down 1 fourth, 1 fifth and 1 sixth, but up 1 seventh.

 

I'm going to go out on a limb and suggest that the extra first trumps the 2 seconds, the fourth, the fifth and the sixth that the team is down. This being said, if we are talking quantity over quality, then you have a case.

 

                                                            regards, G.

Extra 1st as in Jared McCann? 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

10 minutes ago, Gollumpus said:

Extra 1st as in Erik Gudbranson?

 

                                         regards,  G.

 

 

off topic, but whats that cat thing in your picture from again.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Archived

This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    • No registered users viewing this page.
×
×
  • Create New...