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Benning Doesn't Get Enough Credit


Mattrek

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Only 5 players remaining from the 2011 roster assuming Higgins and Burrows are bought out.

 

Meanwhile we've gotten bigger, younger and faster, have lots of cap space to spare, and a flexible roster with barely any no trade clauses.

 

I'd say we're not in as bad a position as people claim we are. Just need to squeeze out a couple more productive years out of the Sedins while our next batch of young stars develop.

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9 hours ago, Mattrek said:

 

When every post you make has something to do with blaming Benning without mentioning any other factor that went into this season it's pretty easy to get the impression you only blame him.

I guess you don't read many of my posts and read a lot into them to find hidden meanings.  Take it at face value, if the team finishes 3rd last, how can any say our GM deserves some credit.  He'll get credit when he deserves credit

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I would give him credit if his moves didn't keep trading away prospects with generally high upsides and giving out 2nd round picks like candy. If Shinkaruk and McCaan amount to nothing and Granlund, Etem, Sutter and Gudbranson evolve into impact players I will glady eat my words. 

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On ‎5‎/‎29‎/‎2016 at 7:27 PM, LaBamba said:

We are going around in circles man. I'm saying acquiring players like Gudbranson for picks could leave holes in the prospect pool down the line. No matter how you look at it, he is paying to win now with the "money" of the future.

 

I freaken love Gudbranson. I can honestly say I have never been more excited about a trade for any player. I absolutely love these kind of defensemen. 

 

What I don't like is how we are using picks to win now when we are one of the leagues lowly. We didn't even have the luxury of trading our UFA's for picks. We should be going into the draft with a surplus of picks not less than half the playoff teams. 

 

This is starting to look like the Gillis Era all over again only we suck. I'm starting to think it's not management at all, it ownership. Win now at any cost. 

Gillis would have traded a second rounder for Brian Campbell and his expiring contract at the deadline.  Not a 24 year old manchild with experience and coming into the best years of his career.  I think that what Benning and Linden are doing is remarkable. I struggle at times with each individual trade but like the overall big picture and think that Benning is layering the team to be good for years to come, not just to suck 5 years like Edmonton and still potentially suck because you're leaders are young guns who have no idea how to win.  Let's not forget that this is a business and they are in it to make money.  Sucking for 5 years isn't good for many businesses.

 

I think that the line-up they have right now, barring significant injuries and with a good UFA signing or 2 could be a strong team next year and will be fun to watch.

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Why are so many users so hung up on a 2nd round pick? There's a 30% chance of that player making the NHL for more then a couple seasons. 2nd round picks are wayyyy too overvalued on these boards. Benning is trading for players who already have NHL experience AND still have room to grow. Why would anyone take a 30% chance over a 100% chance? Any gambler in the world would take that deal.

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3 minutes ago, Mattrek said:

Why are so many users so hung up on a 2nd round pick? There's a 30% chance of that player making the NHL for more then a couple seasons. 2nd round picks are wayyyy too overvalued on these boards. Benning is trading for players who already have NHL experience AND still have room to grow. Why would anyone take a 30% chance over a 100% chance? Any gambler in the world would take that deal.

Actually most TOP gamblers would not take that deal, if put into context.  The 100% chance you are talking about isn't truly 100%.  Are Vey or Baer guaranteed to stick in the NHL?  Factoring Sutter and Gudbrandson, who are locks for the league - proven players, that makes a 50% chance.  Now no gambler will take a bet with a very poor payout, with a 50% chance.  They would rather bet on higher odds at the 30% chance EVERY TIME.  IMHAO, of course.::D

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27 minutes ago, messier's_elbow said:

How much you think Benning will extend Gud for? 5.2 x 6 years. 

I hope Benning realizes that he made a mistake extending Sutter before he saw how he fit in with the team.

 

I would like to think then, that when he extends Gud, term and $ will depend on how things go. 

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2 hours ago, Crabcakes said:

I hope Benning realizes that he made a mistake extending Sutter before he saw how he fit in with the team.

 

I would like to think then, that when he extends Gud, term and $ will depend on how things go. 

 

I think it's a bit early to say how good or bad Sutter actually is. He only played like 20 games last season. This season we'll get a better read, but I liked what I saw from him while he was here.

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10 hours ago, Alflives said:

Actually most TOP gamblers would not take that deal, if put into context.  The 100% chance you are talking about isn't truly 100%.  Are Vey or Baer guaranteed to stick in the NHL?  Factoring Sutter and Gudbrandson, who are locks for the league - proven players, that makes a 50% chance.  Now no gambler will take a bet with a very poor payout, with a 50% chance.  They would rather bet on higher odds at the 30% chance EVERY TIME.  IMHAO, of course.::D

What type of gambling are you a Top gambler Alf? Do they even have gambling on Melmac? Funny because when I watch Horse Racing not many people gamble on the worst horse, and if they do it's low amounts of money. It's not like poker where you can bluff your way in trading. If you have good scouts you can stack the odds in your favour. The bottom line is if you get 3 NHL'ers from a draft every year, you are doing well. That's from 1 to 7. But that's why there's a lot of handwringing in 1st and 2nd rounds.  You also said no one would take a bet at 50/50 with a poor payout. How many 2nd rounders turn into franchise players? This is the whole tank/don't tank argument in a nutshell.

 

Who predicted Boeser would have the type of year in college last year? I don't think any Canucks fan did. They had hopes for a talented winger, but not a put the team on my back type winger. 

To broaden your comparison, no one is guaranteed to stick. Vrbata had a horrible year. And he will probably walk to let someone else see if a situation fits him better. Who saw that coming? Everyone has 20/20 vision in hindsight.

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45 minutes ago, Ghostsof1915 said:

What type of gambling are you a Top gambler Alf? Do they even have gambling on Melmac? Funny because when I watch Horse Racing not many people gamble on the worst horse, and if they do it's low amounts of money. It's not like poker where you can bluff your way in trading. If you have good scouts you can stack the odds in your favour. The bottom line is if you get 3 NHL'ers from a draft every year, you are doing well. That's from 1 to 7. But that's why there's a lot of handwringing in 1st and 2nd rounds.  You also said no one would take a bet at 50/50 with a poor payout. How many 2nd rounders turn into franchise players? This is the whole tank/don't tank argument in a nutshell.

 

Who predicted Boeser would have the type of year in college last year? I don't think any Canucks fan did. They had hopes for a talented winger, but not a put the team on my back type winger. 

To broaden your comparison, no one is guaranteed to stick. Vrbata had a horrible year. And he will probably walk to let someone else see if a situation fits him better. Who saw that coming? Everyone has 20/20 vision in hindsight.

I guess you and I agree.  Boeser is someone who is a gambler would have bet on: longer odds with a high potential return.  A good gambler would read the racing forms, and research the horses. 

There was gambling on Melmac.  It was centered on eating contests.  And let's just say, I wasn't chicken wings. :frantic:

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my opinion on this topic is that its too early to either bash or give credit to this management regime.  5 years is generally the point where you can justly assess their draft record, asset management, and team performance based on the plan that was in place.  We'll for sure have a better idea of that after we get through this next season.

 

So far for me he's drafted better than any GM for us, maybe ever.  That in itself will produce options, even if we lose a few prospects and picks in deals, chances are that well still have more NHL prospects coming up in the system than we had before.  I also expect them to be in on college UFAs most years, including Vesey in the fall.  The fact that we scout the NCAA hard and go out of our way to offer some of these players can help to replace picks moved in the hope of making the team better.

 

Most people overreact to trades before seeing what theyve got.  Its fairly normal.  I said in another thread that I like that we have a group thats willing to take risks, rather than always sitting on their hands like Dave Nonuts.  Sometimes you go shopping and theres the last of something you have been wanting for a while, but its a bit pricey.  You can either go to another store and hope to find it at a better price,, but you then risk losing that item...   idk thats how i look at the Gud deal.  It just sort of came up, and they had to decide to either buy, or risk not getting anything.  THat also means that therell be a decent % of deals that dont always feel like you got the same value as you gave after the fact, but people also arent factoring in the fact that theyre are generating better assets via the draft than EVER before, like getting a promotion so you have more money to spend on that wanted item, though overpriced, you can still afford to buy it. 

 

I usually fall into the support the management regime.  Perhaps its because Im in management myself and at the end of the day, you have to trust your own gut.  You may not be right 100% of the time, but if you go against your gut, you always regret it.  People under me dont always agree with my decision making, so I try to be transparent about the rationale behind the decision.  I feel the Canucks have been very open with how they feel, and why the do or dont make deals.

 

I still scratch my head about nay sayers whining about not getting assets for Hamhuis or Vrbata.  What were they supposed to do.  Just like the Kesler deal, theyre hands were completely tied.  Kes left ONE team to negotiate with and since we've turned it into Dorsett, Sutter, Gudbranson, Pedan, 3rd, 5th  for  Kesler, Bieksa, Mallet, 2nd 3rd 4th.  Considering Kesler demanded a trade to one team and Bieksa is washed up, we recycled our aging assets and did quite well by getting younger, bigger, meaner.

 

Then we have Garrison 7th  for  Vey, Vrbata  (yes the deal opened up the necessary cap to sign what was considered the best value signing of that offseason.  Too bad he crapped the bed last year.)

 

Then 2nd, Jensen, 6th, Shinkaruk  for  Baertschi, Etem, Granlund  (So far for me, we got 3 NHL players for none.  This could change, but Its still likely a year or 2 from finding out)

 

Then Kassian, 5th, 5th, 5th (forsling), McNally, Lack   for   nothing (prust), nothing (clendenning), Larsen, 3rd (brisebois), 7th, 7th

 

Really kind of crap for crap deals.  (sorry Eddie, I think youre a career backup) some assets there that we have no idea how theyll pan out.

 

All in all, if anything we break even in terms of value imo.  But in terms of filling the "plan" of getting younger, bigger, faster, meaner, we are definitely ahead of where we were, and we have FAR more NHL assets than we did.

 

Again, its about the big picture, or rather theyre big picture...  When I took over my company I decided to lay off my most productive asset.  Short term it caused some pain, but I did it because I wanted other pieces in the fold and its since made our organization run FAR better.  Ive yet to "lose" a piece that I wanted to keep, not that the lost assets didnt have value, they just simply did not fit in to what I wanted to build, and for others to see what I was building, it took some time for it to unfold.

 

 

Give these guys some time.  See what they build.

 

 

 

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I like a lot of Bennings moves and think his drafting has been great.  My biggest complaint about Benning and co is the dual mandate:  make the playoffs and get younger in the process.  

 

Our goal should not be to just "make the playoffs"; I want to win the Cup!  And that means we need high end talent and the only way to get that talent is to DRAFT it.  And to draft you need picks and lots of them because they don't all work out.  And that is my concern...the trading away of 2nd round picks.  If Benning is such a great drafter, then he should have as many cards in the game as possible.  And second rounders can get you a player like Weber, Keith, Subban etc....a stud D man we need.  

 

I hope Benning can recoup some draft picks soon with some trades.  

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8 minutes ago, Zedlee said:

I like a lot of Bennings moves and think his drafting has been great.  My biggest complaint about Benning and co is the dual mandate:  make the playoffs and get younger in the process.  

 

Our goal should not be to just "make the playoffs"; I want to win the Cup!  And that means we need high end talent and the only way to get that talent is to DRAFT it.  And to draft you need picks and lots of them because they don't all work out.  And that is my concern...the trading away of 2nd round picks.  If Benning is such a great drafter, then he should have as many cards in the game as possible.  And second rounders can get you a player like Weber, Keith, Subban etc....a stud D man we need.  

 

I hope Benning can recoup some draft picks soon with some trades.  

Well the business side of things especially with FA is not going to allow an oiler or Toronto style rebuild. Toronto has the backing of a whole company in Rogers that allows them to bleed money and Oilers are just incompetent. Case in point, the Oilers and Toronto are still able to sell out their building even with basement team and our sell out streak ended at the first sight of trouble. This franchise can't with stand 5 or so years in the basement.

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