Sven Baertschi | LW

[Alflives]

Watching Baer, he looks to be creating chances for himself and his teammates.  He's holding onto the puck, and looks patient enough.  He's still just a placeholder though.

[Qwags]

I honestly feel like the Baer is snakebit. When I see him play, I see the same problems the rest of the team is having, namely burying their scoring chances.

[samurai]

1 minute ago, Qwags said:

I honestly feel like the Baer is snakebit. When I see him play, I see the same problems the rest of the team is having, namely burying their scoring chances.

 

All the forwards who are supposed to put up points are except Sven.  The snakebit idea works for about 10 games max but we are now a quarter of the way through the season and he has done very little.   It is now starting to look like he as taken a step back.  If Rodin was healthy you have to wonder if Sven would even be in the lineup 

 

Sven was good last year because he started to play a dirty goal game but this year that has disappeared.  

[Hairy Kneel]

If Sven would score a couple that would help Bo too.

Maybe they could use some more set pays, that's if they get a few more Ozone starts.

[-AJ-]

21 hours ago, samurai said:

 

All the forwards who are supposed to put up points are except Sven.  The snakebit idea works for about 10 games max but we are now a quarter of the way through the season and he has done very little.   It is now starting to look like he as taken a step back.  If Rodin was healthy you have to wonder if Sven would even be in the lineup 

 

Sven was good last year because he started to play a dirty goal game but this year that has disappeared.  

What about Horvat? In both of his first two years, he was really weak to start. Last year by this point, Bo had 2 goals, 5 assists and 7 points in 21 games, hardly any worse than Baer this year (1 goal, 5 assists, 6 points in 19 games).

[samurai]

2 hours ago, ajhockey said:

What about Horvat? In both of his first two years, he was really weak to start. Last year by this point, Bo had 2 goals, 5 assists and 7 points in 21 games, hardly any worse than Baer this year (1 goal, 5 assists, 6 points in 19 games).

 

Bo is three years younger.  As well their use has been different.  Bo wasn't expected to score and not given opportunities to do so - know your history.  His goal scoring has been a surprise for the management.   The expectations for Sven are different, top 6 and points.    You are comparing an apple with an orange.   

[mll]

43 minutes ago, samurai said:

 

Bo is three years younger.  As well their use has been different.  Bo wasn't expected to score and not given opportunities to do so - know your history.  His goal scoring has been a surprise for the management.   The expectations for Sven are different, top 6 and points.    You are comparing an apple with an orange.   

 

but the apple and the orange are playing together on the same line and in a defensive role.  Horvat is tasked to start in the d-zone and shutdown the scoring lines and Baer is his linemate.  How do you reconcile expectations with usage and even style of play. 

[gameburn2]

1 hour ago, samurai said:

 

Bo is three years younger.  As well their use has been different.  Bo wasn't expected to score and not given opportunities to do so - know your history.  His goal scoring has been a surprise for the management.   The expectations for Sven are different, top 6 and points.    You are comparing an apple with an orange.   

At a number 9 pick, in exchange for Schneider, I think Horvat was indeed expected to produce, probably 2nd line centre stats: 15 goals and 30 assists = 45 to 50 points within 3 years.  Why else draft a centre at 9?

Baertschi is actually the long-shot.  A placeholder as Alf says, quite correctly.  As only a second round draft equivalent, he could be lost with little upset. 

 

Although Bo can do more of everything than Baer (including scoring), Baer is in a particularly precarious position because without scoring he is not worth keeping.  This was true of Nic Jensen, Cody Hodgson, Linden Vey, and even Jordan Subban.  As well as FA signings like Vrbata and now Eriksson.   The management of any organization expects at least half of their forwards to score on a semi-regular basis, and in the case of 1st rounders, even more so.  If players are soft-ish, not particularly good at blocking shots, disinterested in protecting team mates, don't play well in the playoffs, etc., they become even more expendable.  (As is the case with half of the Canucks.)  Going forward... and assuming this bunch don't keep getting rid of second round picks -- and begin to move assets for more 1-2 round picks (Hansen, Tanev, maybe Edler, Miller and even Markstrom) -- we won't recognize this team in 3 years.  Baertschi will probably not be here, nor will some other "regulars" we think are part of the future.  Aside from Horvat, Virtanen, Boeser, Tryamkin, Juolevi, and Demko and maybe Sutter: all the rest will be new players.

 

You do have a valid point about how Bo has been used: and that is, not well.  Virtanen has not been handled well either.  This team seems to have no idea what to do with young players. Bo gets the 2nd and third tier wingers only.  He should be getting time with Hansen and even Daniel.  He is the center of the future and already one of the team's offensive engines.

 

Edited November 22, 2016 by gameburn2

[Alflives]

11 minutes ago, gameburn2 said:

At a number 9 pick, in exchange for Schneider, I think Horvat was indeed expected to produce, probably 2nd line centre stats: 15 goals and 30 assists = 45 to 50 points within 3 years.  Why else draft a centre at 9?

Baertschi is actually the long-shot.  A placeholder as Alf says, quite correctly.  As only a second round draft equivalent, he could be lost with little upset. 

 

Although Bo can do more of everything than Baer (including scoring), Baer is in a particularly precarious position because without scoring he is not worth keeping.  This was true of Nic Jensen, Cody Hodgson, Linden Vey, and even Jordan Subban.  As well as FA signings like Vrbata and now Eriksson.   The management of any organization expects at least half of their forwards to score on a semi-regular basis, and in the case of 1st rounders, even more so.  If players are soft-ish, not particularly good at blocking shots, disinterested in protecting team mates, don't play well in the playoffs, etc., they become even more expendable.  (As is the case with half of the Canucks.)  Going forward... and assuming this bunch don't keep getting rid of second round picks -- and begin to move assets for more 1-2 round picks (Hansen, Tanev, maybe Edler, Miller and even Markstrom) -- we won't recognize this team in 3 years.  Baertschi will probably not be here, nor will some other "regulars" we think are part of the future.  Aside from Horvat, Virtanen, Boeser, Tryamkin, Juolevi, and Demko and maybe Sutter: all the rest will be new players.

 

You do have a valid point about how Bo has been used: and that is, not well.  Virtanen has not been handled well either.  This team seems to have no idea what to do with young players. Bo gets the 2nd and third tier wingers only.  He should be getting time with Hansen and even Daniel.  He is the center of the future and already one of the team's offensive engines.

 

Awesome post.  Go eat a baked chicken - you deserve one:)

[samurai]

57 minutes ago, mll said:

 

but the apple and the orange are playing together on the same line and in a defensive role.  Horvat is tasked to start in the d-zone and shutdown the scoring lines and Baer is his linemate.  How do you reconcile expectations with usage and even style of play. 

 

Lucia plays with McDavid are they the same type of player with the same expectations?

[gameburn2]

16 minutes ago, Alflives said:

Awesome post.  Go eat a baked chicken - you deserve one:)

You are too kind. 

But your point originally was dead on: for evidence, look at the likes of Toronto.  Only Kadri and Bozak are left from the old Leafs of 4 years ago.

[Alflives]

4 minutes ago, gameburn2 said:

You are too kind. 

But your point originally was dead on: for evidence, look at the likes of Toronto.  Only Kadri and Bozak are left from the old Leafs of 4 years ago.

It makes me  to see the Leafs collecting all those young players, and becoming an exciting team.  I hate the Leafs, but they committed to rebuilding from the ground up.  Our method is more of an addition to a house that is beyond its years.  

[ruilin96]

I see the slump Sven is going through right now similar to the one Bo went through last year. Last year was Sven's real full NHL season and he was pretty much a rookie (tho he did played more than 25 games prior to last year but all in all last year was his actual full year in the league with a team). This year is his sophomore slump and I have notice him every game, making plays, going to the boards to dig out pucks and he wants to be a better player. I think his goals will come once he starts to score.

[mll]

35 minutes ago, samurai said:

 

Lucia plays with McDavid are they the same type of player with the same expectations?

 

You think scoring expectations should be the same between a shutdown line vs a scoring line?  Granlund-Eriksson are used as an offensive line vs Baer-Horvat who are used as a defensive line?  

[samurai]

2 hours ago, mll said:

 

You think scoring expectations should be the same between a shutdown line vs a scoring line?  Granlund-Eriksson are used as an offensive line vs Baer-Horvat who are used as a defensive line?  

 

you are making things up now - Sven in a shutdown role.  Read gameburn 2 post that sorts out the difference between Bo and Sven.

[lmm]

2 hours ago, ruilin96 said:

I see the slump Sven is going through right now similar to the one Bo went through last year. Last year was Sven's real full NHL season and he was pretty much a rookie (tho he did played more than 25 games prior to last year but all in all last year was his actual full year in the league with a team). This year is his sophomore slump and I have notice him every game, making plays, going to the boards to dig out pucks and he wants to be a better player. I think his goals will come once he starts to score.

I notice him give the puck away or tip passes to the other team. He falls down at the same rate Mason Raymond used to. It is amazing to me that he is not tagged with 5 give aways per game. But  the stats page is always kind to him.

[Strombone]

On 11/20/2016 at 4:00 PM, Alflives said:

Watching Baer, he looks to be creating chances for himself and his teammates.  He's holding onto the puck, and looks patient enough.  He's still just a placeholder though.

No way he's just a placeholder. He was given a bridge deal for a reason, to prove his worth long term. I think he'll do just fine. If he keeps playing with Bo, they're going to be like Nazzy and Bert (hopefully).

[mll]

11 hours ago, samurai said:

 

you are making things up now - Sven in a shutdown role.  Read gameburn 2 post that sorts out the difference between Bo and Sven.

 

I read it and don't see any contradiction.  I think we all know that if Baer does not produce he does not stay on this team.  My point is that usage is not exactly conducive to him producing re the type of player he is. 

 

Do you disagree that Baer-Horvat are used in a checking role?  They typically start in the d-zone and play against the scoring lines. 

 

Horvat can play that checking role efficiently as we've seen - it's more counter-intuitive for a player like Baertschi.  WD explained that he started that way because he was struggling offensively and it's easier to play defence as it's more in your control.  It allowed Baer to find his confidence and in March WD then used him in an offensive role with Granlund/Vey as his Cs and he looked back on track.

 

He is a creative playmaker - he likes to have the puck in the O-zone and to play quick give-and-go where he is typically the set-up guy.  His play is kind of about getting guys to believe he is going to do something and does something else.  When confident, he has the skills to make totally unexpected moves that catch guys off guard.  We saw that in March.   

 

It's confusing because WD finally gets him to play his game at the end of last season yet he is back with Horvat on a defensive line.  I could understand if they wanted Horvat to develop a different layer to his offence but WD keeps on saying that Horvat's game is built on defence.  Horvat is power and speed, off the rush, straight to the net.  Baer is creativity and poise to create a play in the O-zone.   

 

With Sutter back I initially thought they would be used offensively but it's not the case - so why are they a line.  It's not playing to Baer's strength and it's also hurting Horvat. 

[canucklehead44]

Baertschi has 4 points in his last 6 games. Too early to write him off. His points per 60 minutes this year is comparable to Brouwer, Ryan, Kuznetsov, Brassard, and Tatar. 

He is shooting 3.2% - that number will improve. His shots per game is up to 1.63 from 1.56 last year. 

 

He has been disappointing no doubt, but I am more worried about Eriksson at 31 years old scoring 7 points in 19 at 6 million per year for 5 more years than Baertschi at 24 scoring 6 points in 19 at 1.75 million for one more season. 5 on 5 they both have five points.

[Alflives]

9 minutes ago, canucklehead44 said:

Baertschi has 4 points in his last 6 games. Too early to write him off. His points per 60 minutes this year is comparable to Brouwer, Ryan, Kuznetsov, Brassard, and Tatar. 

He is shooting 3.2% - that number will improve. His shots per game is up to 1.63 from 1.56 last year. 

 

He has been disappointing no doubt, but I am more worried about Eriksson at 31 years old scoring 7 points in 19 at 6 million per year for 5 more years than Baertschi at 24 scoring 6 points in 19 at 1.75 million for one more season. 5 on 5 they both have five points.

And doesn't Baer get a lot of d-zone starts with Bo?