Bo Horvat | #53 | C

[Gaudette Celly]

And more from Trevor:

"You know what we'd love to see? Look at Detroit and how they've handled their young players; they go to Grand Rapids, they play well at the AHL level, which makes them better pros. Everyone is in a rush to get these young guys in the lineup, but having said that it'd be great to have some of our young guys have real successful AHL seasons where they're not pushed into spots that ask too much of them. You've got to be careful with young players, it's a big jump from Junior to Pro. We want them to grow organically."

He wants to see them in there as much as we do. They want them to succeed as much as or more than we do, and are much better-equipped and knowledgeable about how to do it.

[Gaudette Celly]

If you want to develop players properly you don't play top 10 picks majority of the time on the 4th line. Again he isn't going to be a shutdown centre for me, he should play against 3rd liners not top competition.

Dude, you aren't even listening to what he said. ANY NHL competition is better than junior; it's men versus boys. If you won't listen to us, then listen to TL and JB.

[Plum]

Dude, you aren't even listening to what he said. ANY NHL competition is better than junior; it's men versus boys. If you won't listen to us, then listen to TL and JB.

McGrattan>McDavid/Dal Colle/Bennett/Ritchie.

That makes sense right? Laughable.

What are TL and JB saying? Horvat already made the 4th line!

[Tangelos]

The 4th line is expected to play 13 min a game. If horvat plays 13 min with pk time then he should be in the nhl.

[Plum]

The 4th line is expected to play 13 min a game. If horvat plays 13 min with pk time then he should be in the nhl.

Then how much time does the first line get? 16 mins?

4th lines don't have 13 mins of ice time...

Edited July 30, 2014 by Plum

[Derp...]

He The best players coming into the NHL are either exceptional 18 year olds, or guys who have dominated in other pro leagues before the age of 23. Horvat should really get time in the AHL to learn the pro game. I know nobody wants that really, but it's the right move for him. I would prefer to see him stick with the NHL team until christmas then go to junior after WJC, because someone else is playing great for us, and then go to Utica at the end of the year for a 10 AHL games. At that point I think he would be ready to be an NHL starter in 2015, but who knows.

I'm pro sending him to WJC, I'm pro 9 games stint, and if he makes us better then we keep him until christmas and see if someone from the AHL can come and steal his spot in a good way.

[N4ZZY]

agreed. i'm in no rush to see horvat make the canucks.

i'd rather have him develop properly than ruin his career and confidence by rushing him into a position where he's not going to succeed. that'd be a waste of a top 10 pick. horvat's going to play a major role for the club for years to come. let's all be patient with his development, cause it can only serve this franchise for the better moving forward. same with the other prospects. we've got enough players for this year that we don't need to rush any of our younger players. if they're not ready. they ain't ready. until they are, give them time to mature, grow, learn the professional game.

horvat's a good player. but he's not an exceptional player (i.e. mckinnon). so he'll need to go the route that most other players go through. get another year of junior. then off to the WJC, and see how he performs there against the best among his age. and then next season, at least a year of AHL seasoning before even considering a spot on the big club.

[avelanch]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E5bjO_UKIqE

Dangle, dangle.

Mr. Bo Dangles

[DeNiro]

If it comes down to potentially stunting one of our best prospects development, or having him spend a couple more seasons in the minors, the choice is pretty obvious.

There's no rush with Horvat. The team won't likely be in contention next season, so we have time to develop these guys properly. I've never seen a players development stunted by spending an extra season in junior, but I've definitely seen it stunted by being rushed into the NHL.

[Legend Killer]

I don't see him playing all season, but i expect a 9 game tryout. I saw him recently, the dude is in better shape than he's ever been.

[aGENT]

Jensen is not a offensive oriented player. He has a good defensive game and he could fit in the bottom 6 just aswell as anybody else because of his size, experience, speed, defensive game and can score goals.

Why is Vey going to be in our bottom 6 but he's just about the same size as McCann?

Virtanen can be a 3rd line checker but that's not where we want him to go so we send him back to junior, correct? Horvat can be a bottom 6 player but is that where we want him to go?

Why is it okay that Horvat can play 4th line minutes but when Kassian played 4th line minutes everybody screamed? People should be screaming even more at Horvat because he's 19, not a PWF either.

Top 10 picks don't develop on the 4th line regardless of who they're playing with. This is amateur development, real professional player developers don't encourage a top 10 pick on the 4th line. You think 10-12 minutes are okay because a 3rd line player is where you want him to become. He has aspects of his game where they won't become better on the 4th line.

Jensen has a decent two way game but he most certainly is a more offense oriented player. He's expected to be responsible certainly but his main job is to drive offense. That said, that role can certainly fit on a third line as well.

Kassian if four years older.

Vey, is also four years older (and will have to work his arse off to even make the team). He is by no means a "lock".

Virtanen is nearly 2 years younger, McCann one year younger, a fair bit smaller and with an as yet, less complete/ready game.

You're attempting to compare oranges to Volkswagens as though they're the same thing. They are not.

He'd likely get roughly 8 minutes of regular 5 on 5 time and likely a few additional minutes of 2nd unit PP/PK time totaling ~10-12 minutes. As injuries occur he's probably get even more. I have zero issue with him developing there if he's ready.

I think 10-12 HARD minutes is ok as I think it will better serve his development than pacing himself at 25 minutes in the OHL. Not because I "only want him to be a 3rd line player" (where did you even get that? ) IMO he's likely to be an excellent, 2 way 2nd line C in his prime (likely 4+ years from now). If he exceeds expectations, maybe even a 1st line C. Only if he doesn't meet expectations will he be a 3rd liner IMO and even that wouldn't be horrible as he'd likely be a VERY good 3C.

He has aspects of his game that won't become better playing in the OHL as well (could even be detrimental). Again, the aspects he needs to improve the most (NHL pace, playing against men) would be far better served at the NHL level than the OHL.

If he's ready, he plays. Third line, fourth line, wherever.

Edited July 30, 2014 by J.R.

[Plum]

Jensen has a decent two way game but he most certainly is a more offense oriented player. He's expected to be responsible certainly but his main job is to drive offense. That said, that role can certainly fit on a third line as well.

Kassian if four years older.

Vey, is also four years older (and will have to work his arse off to even make the team). He is by no means a "lock".

Virtanen is nearly 2 years younger, McCann one year younger, a fair bit smaller and with an as yet, less complete/ready game.

You're attempting to compare oranges to Volkswagens as though they're the same thing. They are not.

He'd likely get roughly 8 minutes of regular 5 on 5 time and likely a few additional minutes of 2nd unit PP/PK time totaling ~10-12 minutes. As injuries occur he's probably get even more. I have zero issue with him developing there if he's ready.

I think 10-12 HARD minutes is ok as I think it will better serve his development than pacing himself at 25 minutes in the OHL. Not because I "only want him to be a 3rd line player" (where did you even get that? ) IMO he's likely to be an excellent, 2 way 2nd line C in his prime (likely 4+ years from now). If he exceeds expectations, maybe even a 1st line C. Only if he doesn't meet expectations will he be a 3rd liner IMO and even that wouldn't be horrible as he'd likely be a VERY good 3C.

He has aspects of his game that won't become better playing in the OHL as well (could even be detrimental). Again, the aspects he needs to improve the most (NHL pace, playing against men) would be far better served at the NHL level than the OHL.

If he's ready, he plays. Third line, fourth line, wherever.

Why is it okay Horvat can play 4th line minutes and 4th line teammates but Kassian can't? Everybody screamed at Torts to put Kassian back up on the top 9. You were okay with Kassian on the 4th line?

Dale Weise played 7 minutes of ice time averagely as a 4th liner in Vancouver. Tom Sestito played less than 10 minutes aswell.

You'd rather have him play 4th liners than play skilled players, when he gets into the NHL he will have to play against skilled guys unless he becomes a 4th liner bust. We aren't developing him to play against 4th liners, we're developing him to play against skilled players. When he becomes to the NHL he better be playing against players with a decent level of skill, not goons like McGrattan, Scott, Bollig, etc. That's why he should play on the 3rd line against 2nd/3rd line competition. I expect him to become a top 6 player aswell but you don't start his NHL development against 4th liners, that's just crazy. IMO you are selling him short, he's better than playing against 4th liners but we'll have to see if he's good enough to play against 3rd liners.

This is my biggest point: It's better he plays against skilled players than 4th liners with not much skill, also no one develops a top 10 pick on the 4th line for a full 82 game season. That is probably the worst thing you can do. What's the NHL pace if he plays against 4th liners? The goons in our division aren't fast skaters, they play a goony game.

I don't believe he plays on the 4th line over junior, makes no sense playing against 4th liners. Junior players have more skill. The way we develop him in junior, AHL is the type of player we want in the NHL correct? A two-way forward capable of shutting down opponents and putting in points.

[aGENT]

Why is it okay Horvat can play 4th line minutes and 4th line teammates but Kassian can't? Everybody screamed at Torts to put Kassian back up on the top 9. You were okay with Kassian on the 4th line?

Dale Weise played 7 minutes of ice time averagely as a 4th liner in Vancouver. Tom Sestito played less than 10 minutes aswell.

You'd rather have him play 4th liners than play skilled players, when he gets into the NHL he will have to play against skilled guys unless he becomes a 4th liner bust. We aren't developing him to play against 4th liners, we're developing him to play against skilled players. When he becomes to the NHL he better be playing against players with a decent level of skill, not goons like McGrattan, Scott, Bollig, etc. That's why he should play on the 3rd line against 2nd/3rd line competition. I expect him to become a top 6 player aswell but you don't start his NHL development against 4th liners, that's just crazy. IMO you are selling him short, he's better than playing against 4th liners but we'll have to see if he's good enough to play against 3rd liners.

This is my biggest point: It's better he plays against skilled players than 4th liners with not much skill, also no one develops a top 10 pick on the 4th line for a full 82 game season. That is probably the worst thing you can do. What's the NHL pace if he plays against 4th liners? The goons in our division aren't fast skaters, they play a goony game.

I don't believe he plays on the 4th line over junior, makes no sense playing against 4th liners. Junior players have more skill. The way we develop him in junior, AHL is the type of player we want in the NHL correct? A two-way forward capable of shutting down opponents and putting in points.

For like the 5th time now... KASSIAN IS FOUR YEARS OLDER THAN HORVAT AND FURTHER ALONG IN HIS DEVELOPMENT. I'm beginning to wonder if you're trolling or have a reading comprehension issue.

I'm not selling him short at all. I'll not be remotely surprised to see him take the 3C spot this year. But I still think he'd develop better even on the 4th line with additional PK and PP time than in the OHL. You seem to be confusing me saying that's a better place for him to develop (than the OHL) with saying that's where I think he should play or is his ceiling this year. You are aware players move around a lineup as their play merits and injuries occur, right?

Neither Weise or Sestito spent much time on the PK and certainly not on the PP. Horvat would. Torts also hardly used his 4th line, WD will. More minutes.

You seem to be looking at Horvat in a VERY narrow field and not taking in to account a lott of other information.

Edited July 30, 2014 by J.R.

[Canucks1219]

Why is it okay Horvat can play 4th line minutes and 4th line teammates but Kassian can't? Everybody screamed at Torts to put Kassian back up on the top 9. You were okay with Kassian on the 4th line?

Dale Weise played 7 minutes of ice time averagely as a 4th liner in Vancouver. Tom Sestito played less than 10 minutes aswell.

You'd rather have him play 4th liners than play skilled players, when he gets into the NHL he will have to play against skilled guys unless he becomes a 4th liner bust. We aren't developing him to play against 4th liners, we're developing him to play against skilled players. When he becomes to the NHL he better be playing against players with a decent level of skill, not goons like McGrattan, Scott, Bollig, etc. That's why he should play on the 3rd line against 2nd/3rd line competition. I expect him to become a top 6 player aswell but you don't start his NHL development against 4th liners, that's just crazy. IMO you are selling him short, he's better than playing against 4th liners but we'll have to see if he's good enough to play against 3rd liners.

This is my biggest point: It's better he plays against skilled players than 4th liners with not much skill, also no one develops a top 10 pick on the 4th line for a full 82 game season. That is probably the worst thing you can do. What's the NHL pace if he plays against 4th liners? The goons in our division aren't fast skaters, they play a goony game.

I don't believe he plays on the 4th line over junior, makes no sense playing against 4th liners. Junior players have more skill. The way we develop him in junior, AHL is the type of player we want in the NHL correct? A two-way forward capable of shutting down opponents and putting in points.

Why are you assuming he would play an entire season on the 4th line? If Bo Horvat is ready to play in the NHL, I'd imagine he would be able to at least move up to the 3rd line at some point. If he can't do that then he's not NHL ready anyways.

[avelanch]

guys....

where a player is placed at the beginning of his rookie season is where that player will spend THEIR ENTIRE CAREER. There is NO MOVEMENT, EVER. also, All coaches use their lines EXACTLY THE SAME, there is no variability in ice time dispersal between coaches.

Everyone knows this.

[aGENT]

guys....

where a player is placed at the beginning of his rookie season is where that player will spend THEIR ENTIRE CAREER. There is NO MOVEMENT, EVER. also, All coaches use their lines EXACTLY THE SAME, there is no variability in ice time dispersal between coaches.

Everyone knows this.

Or players for that matter

[Plum]

Why are you assuming he would play an entire season on the 4th line? If Bo Horvat is ready to play in the NHL, I'd imagine he would be able to at least move up to the 3rd line at some point. If he can't do that then he's not NHL ready anyways.

So we should waste a year of his ELC? He's ready for top 9 minutes or he isn't. We're not moving him around the lineup or back to junior mid-season. No team even should start a top 10 pick on the 4th line, that's the dumbest development strategy I could ever hear.

guys....

where a player is placed at the beginning of his rookie season is where that player will spend THEIR ENTIRE CAREER. There is NO MOVEMENT, EVER. also, All coaches use their lines EXACTLY THE SAME, there is no variability in ice time dispersal between coaches.

Everyone knows this.

Haha so funny. Majority of the season would be on the 4th line if J.R thinks starting him on the 4th line is a good idea. The whole point from you guys were to play him on the 4th line, which means play him against players who aren't good skaters, not much skill and are just 4th liners who get the least amount of ice-time on their team because of their low skill level. That is where Horvat should play?

This should be some sort of joke.

For like the 5th time now... KASSIAN IS FOUR YEARS OLDER THAN HORVAT AND FURTHER ALONG IN HIS DEVELOPMENT. I'm beginning to wonder if you're trolling or have a reading comprehension issue.

I'm not selling him short at all. I'll not be remotely surprised to see him take the 3C spot this year. But I still think he'd develop better even on the 4th line with additional PK and PP time than in the OHL. You seem to be confusing me saying that's a better place for him to develop (than the OHL) with saying that's where I think he should play or is his ceiling this year. You are aware players move around a lineup as their play merits and injuries occur, right?

Neither Weise or Sestito spent much time on the PK and certainly not on the PP. Horvat would. Torts also hardly used his 4th line, WD will. More minutes.

You seem to be looking at Horvat in a VERY narrow field and not taking in to account a lott of other information.

That doesn't mean it's okay to have a young developing player on the 4th line. Kassian has top 6 potential but it's okay even if he's 4 years in his development to play on the 4th line? Explain why it's okay.

I know he can move up and down but your point was to play him on the 4th line, who knows when injuries occur. It's top 9 or junior plain and simple. What 4th liners play on the PP and the PK? Maybe PK but he isn't a 4th liner if he's playing on the PP. This is probably the weirdest time of development I've ever heard, let's start a top 10 pick on the 4th line and then get him on the special teams. Who does that? What successful prospect has ever done that? Injuries occur obviously but we're talking about majority of the time being a 4th liner. If you're going to tell me he's going to play in the top 9 for a good chunk of time in the NHL and he's ready for it than I'm fine.

Why is Horvat going to play on the PP though? If he was good enough for the PP than he wouldn't be on the 4th line. Defensively he'll be fine for the NHL but why should he take a spot from Higgins/Kassian/Hansen/Vey? Are we trying to win a game or develop one kid? I'm not going to pay my money to go see a kid on the 2nd PP unit just because we want to develop him. I want to see them try and win not develop one kid. Sedins, Burrows, Kassian, Bonino, Vrbata should be the 6 guys on the PP, they're better than Horvat offensively. I think that's ridiculous. Sure injuries occur but than he should take time away from Higgins, Hansen, Vey?

Why is it better for him to develop on the 4th line instead of top notch junior kids with a ton of skill? Sure he'll step into the top 9 but what if he isn't ready for top 9 minutes? Send him down because he's only good enough for 4th line minutes?

[Pimp C]

I don't see what the big deal would be in him being in the NHL this season. Let him play wing/center on our 3rd line with 2nd pp duty, and send him to the WJC. Playing an NHL schedule will also help him cut down any excess weight. This guy is good at literally every part of hockey except maybe skating... his skating is slightly below average. He needs to learn how to adapt to the NHL pace and what better place to do that than the NHL itself. Another year in junior and it may elongate his problem with pace.

Kesler, Bergeron, J. Staal, ROR, Couturier, Monahan are all 2-way centers that made the NHL immediately after being drafted (30 games in Kesler's case). They have not "stagnated" or had their had their development go off the rails, so I don't see why Horvat can't come into the NHL and continue devoping now that he's already played his draft+1 season and showed considerable development.

I can think of one thing that may make me think twice about keeping him up in the NHL. Keeping him away from a potentially disastrous season this year.

[73 Percent]

I don't see what the big deal would be in him being in the NHL this season. Let him play wing/center on our 3rd line with 2nd pp duty, and send him to the WJC. Playing an NHL schedule will also help him cut down any excess weight. This guy is good at literally every part of hockey except maybe skating... his skating is slightly below average. He needs to learn how to adapt to the NHL pace and what better place to do that than the NHL itself. Another year in junior and it may elongate his problem with pace.

Kesler, Bergeron, J. Staal, ROR, Couturier, Monahan are all 2-way centers that made the NHL immediately after being drafted (30 games in Kesler's case). They have not "stagnated" or had their had their development go off the rails, so I don't see why Horvat can't come into the NHL and continue devoping now that he's already played his draft+1 season and showed considerable development.

I can think of one thing that may make me think twice about keeping him up in the NHL. Keeping him away from a potentially disastrous season this year.

you do realize that if he is sent to the wjhc that he will be returned to London right?

Maybe...

NNow im second guessing myself.

Can someone look into that?

Edited July 31, 2014 by Gooseberries

[Boudrias]

Plum;

Different era but 'The Flower' played the better part of 3 seasons on the Montreal 4th line. Tardiff-Huel-LaFleur. They PK'ed a lot.

Horvat's camp will probably tell the tale. He will have a lot of compete in the bottom 6. I cannot see WD keeping him unless they can see a way for giving him TOI. I do not consider this a CUP contending roster so the TOI can be spread much more which might help Horvat stick. That said there are others who management might want to have a look at to determine whether to keep them long term or not.