Alflives Posted January 28, 2019 Share Posted January 28, 2019 35 minutes ago, Duodenum said: https://www.tsn.ca/radio/vancouver-1040/burke-can-make-legitimate-case-gudbranson-is-worst-defenseman-in-nhl-1.1247239 Burke: Can make legitimate case Gudbranson is worst defenseman in NHL JD Burke from the Athletic says Erik Gudbranson could be the worst defenseman in the NHL, but admits there may still be a trade market for Gudbranson. JD says there are D options on the farm, and the Canucks shouldn't be shy to use them. His take isn't really surprising given where's it's coming from (the athletic). Pretty much every analytics guy in journalism has a similar opinion of Gudbranson. Still it's rare that anyone calls a player "one of the worst" on tv or radio. Stand by my earlier notion that the single greatest improvement to the team could be made by improving on Gudbranson who is a huge liability on the ice. Corsica also came out with their player rankings. Gudbranson was ranked 242nd...out of 245 dmen. They also gave him a tier rating of an 8th defenseman. Only Edler (#2 dman) was given a top 3 dman rating on the team. Stecher at 100/245 and tier 4 (#4 dman) was the next highest so that was nice to see as a Stecher supporter. I wonder what Brian Burke (an actual hockey person) thinks about Guddy. This JD Burke clearly never laced them up. I bet JD Burke was picked on in high school. He likely holds the record for most “swirlies”! Guy sounds like a puddy tat. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Westcoasting Posted January 28, 2019 Share Posted January 28, 2019 15 minutes ago, Alflives said: I wonder what Brian Burke (an actual hockey person) thinks about Guddy. This JD Burke clearly never laced them up. I bet JD Burke was picked on in high school. He likely holds the record for most “swirlies”! Guy sounds like a puddy tat. What do you think of him? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alflives Posted January 28, 2019 Share Posted January 28, 2019 1 minute ago, Westcoasting said: What do you think of him? I really know little about JD Burke. However, it’s not difficult (from his inability to recognize what Guddy brings to a team) to see the boy never played. I would seriously doubt he was even ever in a fist fight. He’s a muffin. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Westcoasting Posted January 28, 2019 Share Posted January 28, 2019 57 minutes ago, Duodenum said: https://www.tsn.ca/radio/vancouver-1040/burke-can-make-legitimate-case-gudbranson-is-worst-defenseman-in-nhl-1.1247239 Burke: Can make legitimate case Gudbranson is worst defenseman in NHL JD Burke from the Athletic says Erik Gudbranson could be the worst defenseman in the NHL, but admits there may still be a trade market for Gudbranson. JD says there are D options on the farm, and the Canucks shouldn't be shy to use them. His take isn't really surprising given where's it's coming from (the athletic). Pretty much every analytics guy in journalism has a similar opinion of Gudbranson. Still it's rare that anyone calls a player "one of the worst" on tv or radio. Stand by my earlier notion that the single greatest improvement to the team could be made by improving on Gudbranson who is a huge liability on the ice. Corsica also came out with their player rankings. Gudbranson was ranked 242nd...out of 245 dmen. They also gave him a tier rating of an 8th defenseman. Only Edler (#2 dman) was given a top 3 dman rating on the team. Stecher at 100/245 and tier 4 (#4 dman) was the next highest so that was nice to see as a Stecher supporter. I was a huge fan of his during his Florida days ( spent holidays in florida) seen him play lots and was more than happy when we traded for him. Kept thinking this guy is going to get real gud... and i'm still waiting! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Westcoasting Posted January 28, 2019 Share Posted January 28, 2019 3 minutes ago, Alflives said: I really know little about JD Burke. However, it’s not difficult (from his inability to recognize what Guddy brings to a team) to see the boy never played. I would seriously doubt he was even ever in a fist fight. He’s a muffin. That is funny! But actually i was wondering what your honest assessment of Guddy was. I was a huge fan but that has been steadily eroding... however i don't see how it is remotely possible to be the worst in the NHL as the Burkei claimed. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alflives Posted January 28, 2019 Share Posted January 28, 2019 4 minutes ago, Westcoasting said: That is funny! But actually i was wondering what your honest assessment of Guddy was. I was a huge fan but that has been steadily eroding... however i don't see how it is remotely possible to be the worst in the NHL as the Burkei claimed. Guddy is at his best, when playing with an elite skating (and puck carrying) partner. He was great with Campbell, because all he had to do was play heavy, and Campbell took care of the puck. I think we hoped Hutton could play that role. Then we put Guddy with ?Edler, and we saw improvement. But Edler isn’t close to elite skating the puck. Hughes would be ideal for Guddy. Hopefully we get to see Guddy with Hughes before too long. Then we will all see the Guddy we traded for. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post 73 Percent Posted January 28, 2019 Popular Post Share Posted January 28, 2019 (edited) 1 hour ago, Duodenum said: https://www.tsn.ca/radio/vancouver-1040/burke-can-make-legitimate-case-gudbranson-is-worst-defenseman-in-nhl-1.1247239 Burke: Can make legitimate case Gudbranson is worst defenseman in NHL JD Burke from the Athletic says Erik Gudbranson could be the worst defenseman in the NHL, but admits there may still be a trade market for Gudbranson. JD says there are D options on the farm, and the Canucks shouldn't be shy to use them. His take isn't really surprising given where's it's coming from (the athletic). Pretty much every analytics guy in journalism has a similar opinion of Gudbranson. Still it's rare that anyone calls a player "one of the worst" on tv or radio. Stand by my earlier notion that the single greatest improvement to the team could be made by improving on Gudbranson who is a huge liability on the ice. Corsica also came out with their player rankings. Gudbranson was ranked 242nd...out of 245 dmen. They also gave him a tier rating of an 8th defenseman. Only Edler (#2 dman) was given a top 3 dman rating on the team. Stecher at 100/245 and tier 4 (#4 dman) was the next highest so that was nice to see as a Stecher supporter. Here's what everyone needs to know about corsicas ratings... Ben Hutton was ranked better than Thomas chabot. Edit. As does Luca sbisa... Need I say more. Edited January 28, 2019 by 73 Percent 2 1 1 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PhillipBlunt Posted January 28, 2019 Share Posted January 28, 2019 3 minutes ago, 73 Percent said: Here's what everyone needs to know about corsicas ratings... Ben Hutton was ranked better than Thomas chabot. Need I say more. Anyone who quotes that turd JD Burke can't be taken seriously. Great points, 73. 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PhillipBlunt Posted January 28, 2019 Share Posted January 28, 2019 14 minutes ago, The 5th Line said: This is what analytics is doing to the game. Nerds are taking over They wish they could take over but when the majority of the analyticzzzz geeks admit to not even watching games, their input can't really be taken seriously. 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PhillipBlunt Posted January 28, 2019 Share Posted January 28, 2019 27 minutes ago, Westcoasting said: That is funny! But actually i was wondering what your honest assessment of Guddy was. I was a huge fan but that has been steadily eroding... however i don't see how it is remotely possible to be the worst in the NHL as the Burkei claimed. JD Burke, along with other local analytics parasites seemingly have a fetish for Gudbranson. They seem determined to undermine him and smear his name. It's pretty pathetic and clearly some of the posters in this thread lately, are either disciples of Burke's stats only approach, or are Burke and company themselves. 3 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Duodenum Posted January 28, 2019 Share Posted January 28, 2019 (edited) 14 hours ago, 73 Percent said: Here's what everyone needs to know about corsicas ratings... Ben Hutton was ranked better than Thomas chabot. Edit. As does Luca sbisa... Need I say more. You should say more. Here are the top 100: Player Team Position Rating Ranking GP Age Shoots Opponent Erik Karlsson San Jose Sharks RD 84.60 1 47 28 R Arizona Coyotes Roman Josi Nashville Predators LD 81.85 1 52 28 L Florida Panthers Miro Heiskanen Dallas Stars D 73.82 1 49 19 L Buffalo Sabres Brent Burns San Jose Sharks RD 83.73 2 52 33 R Arizona Coyotes Torey Krug Boston Bruins LD 81.78 2 38 27 L Winnipeg Jets Justin Holl Toronto Maple Leafs D 73.80 2 2 26 R Detroit Red Wings Kris Letang Pittsburgh Penguins RD 82.60 3 46 31 R New Jersey Devils Victor Hedman Tampa Bay Lightning LD 81.37 3 42 28 L Pittsburgh Penguins John Klingberg Dallas Stars RD 81.82 4 31 26 R Buffalo Sabres Mark Giordano Calgary Flames LD 81.03 4 49 35 L Washington Capitals Dennis Cholowski Detroit Red Wings D 71.87 4 47 20 R Toronto Maple Leafs Dustin Byfuglien Winnipeg Jets RD 80.44 5 32 33 R Philadelphia Flyers Ryan Suter Minnesota Wild LD 79.59 5 50 34 L Dallas Stars Carl Dahlstrom Chicago Blackhawks D 71.65 5 18 23 L Buffalo Sabres Seth Jones Columbus Blue Jackets RD 80.36 6 41 24 R Buffalo Sabres Morgan Rielly Toronto Maple Leafs LD 79.48 6 49 24 L Detroit Red Wings Martin Marincin Toronto Maple Leafs D 71.03 6 10 26 L Detroit Red Wings John Carlson Washington Capitals RD 80.15 7 49 29 R Calgary Flames Mattias Ekholm Nashville Predators LD 78.23 7 51 28 L Florida Panthers Gustav Forsling Chicago Blackhawks D 70.64 7 19 22 L Buffalo Sabres P.K. Subban Nashville Predators RD 79.89 8 33 29 R Florida Panthers Shea Theodore Vegas Golden Knights LD 77.73 8 51 23 L Carolina Hurricanes Brendan Smith New York Rangers D 70.38 8 31 29 L Philadelphia Flyers Ryan Ellis Nashville Predators RD 79.77 9 52 28 R Florida Panthers T.J. Brodie Calgary Flames LD 77.42 9 51 28 L Washington Capitals Dalton Prout Calgary Flames D 69.49 9 9 28 R Washington Capitals Shea Weber Montreal Canadiens RD 79.66 10 27 33 R New Jersey Devils Jaccob Slavin Carolina Hurricanes LD 77.16 10 50 24 L Vegas Golden Knights Christian Jaros Ottawa Senators D 69.26 10 37 22 R Pittsburgh Penguins Alex Pietrangelo St Louis Blues RD 79.23 11 38 29 R Columbus Blue Jackets Oliver Ekman-Larsson Arizona Coyotes LD 77.15 11 49 27 L San Jose Sharks Tyson Barrie Colorado Avalanche RD 78.87 12 46 27 R Vancouver Canucks Jake Gardiner Toronto Maple Leafs LD 76.92 12 47 28 L Detroit Red Wings Drew Doughty Los Angeles Kings RD 78.82 13 50 29 R New York Islanders Shayne Gostisbehere Philadelphia Flyers LD 76.71 13 48 25 L Winnipeg Jets Jared Spurgeon Minnesota Wild RD 78.69 14 50 29 R Dallas Stars Keith Yandle Florida Panthers LD 76.69 14 48 32 L Nashville Predators Mathew Dumba Minnesota Wild RD 78.31 15 32 24 R Dallas Stars Oscar Klefbom Edmonton Oilers LD 76.63 15 31 25 L Philadelphia Flyers Dougie Hamilton Carolina Hurricanes RD 77.87 16 50 25 R Vegas Golden Knights Zach Werenski Columbus Blue Jackets LD 76.56 16 48 21 L Buffalo Sabres Colin Miller Vegas Golden Knights RD 77.54 17 39 26 R Carolina Hurricanes Jake Muzzin Los Angeles Kings LD 76.39 17 50 29 L New York Islanders Nate Schmidt Vegas Golden Knights LD 77.30 18 32 27 L Carolina Hurricanes Ryan McDonagh Tampa Bay Lightning LD 76.14 18 49 29 L Pittsburgh Penguins Jeff Petry Montreal Canadiens RD 77.19 19 51 31 R New Jersey Devils Vince Dunn St Louis Blues LD 75.77 19 45 22 L Columbus Blue Jackets Charlie McAvoy Boston Bruins RD 76.99 20 22 21 R Winnipeg Jets Alexander Edler Vancouver Canucks LD 75.62 20 36 32 L Colorado Avalanche Justin Schultz Pittsburgh Penguins RD 76.61 21 4 28 R New Jersey Devils Cam Fowler Anaheim Ducks LD 75.44 21 28 27 L Winnipeg Jets Jacob Trouba Winnipeg Jets RD 76.56 22 48 24 R Philadelphia Flyers Noah Hanifin Calgary Flames LD 75.22 22 51 22 L Washington Capitals Rasmus Ristolainen Buffalo Sabres RD 76.30 23 48 24 R Columbus Blue Jackets Nick Leddy New York Islanders LD 75.12 23 49 27 L Tampa Bay Lightning Colton Parayko St Louis Blues RD 76.26 24 49 25 R Columbus Blue Jackets Hampus Lindholm Anaheim Ducks LD 75.09 24 45 25 L Winnipeg Jets Tim Heed San Jose Sharks RD 76.02 25 13 28 R Arizona Coyotes Brian Dumoulin Pittsburgh Penguins LD 75.00 25 48 27 L New Jersey Devils Justin Faulk Carolina Hurricanes RD 76.02 26 50 26 R Vegas Golden Knights Zdeno Chara Boston Bruins LD 74.79 26 30 41 L Winnipeg Jets Brandon Montour Anaheim Ducks RD 75.86 27 51 24 R Winnipeg Jets Josh Morrissey Winnipeg Jets LD 74.78 27 46 23 L Philadelphia Flyers Mike Green Detroit Red Wings RD 75.21 28 29 33 R Toronto Maple Leafs Will Butcher New Jersey Devils LD 74.65 28 47 24 L Pittsburgh Penguins Tyler Myers Winnipeg Jets RD 75.18 29 46 28 R Philadelphia Flyers Mikhail Sergachev Tampa Bay Lightning LD 74.56 29 45 20 L Pittsburgh Penguins Erik Gustafsson Chicago Blackhawks LD 74.87 30 48 26 L Buffalo Sabres Brad Hunt Minnesota Wild LD 74.51 30 14 30 L Dallas Stars Rasmus Dahlin Buffalo Sabres LD 74.39 31 48 18 R Columbus Blue Jackets Aaron Ekblad Florida Panthers RD 74.35 31 48 22 R Nashville Predators Brett Pesce Carolina Hurricanes RD 74.32 32 41 24 R Vegas Golden Knights Esa Lindell Dallas Stars LD 74.23 32 49 24 L Buffalo Sabres Johnny Boychuk New York Islanders RD 74.28 33 48 35 R Tampa Bay Lightning Marc-Edouard Vlasic San Jose Sharks LD 74.05 33 42 31 L Arizona Coyotes Calvin de Haan Carolina Hurricanes LD 73.95 34 50 27 L Vegas Golden Knights Erik Johnson Colorado Avalanche RD 73.81 34 48 30 R Vancouver Canucks Devon Toews New York Islanders D 73.93 35 15 24 L Tampa Bay Lightning Scott Mayfield New York Islanders RD 73.63 35 47 26 R Tampa Bay Lightning Travis Dermott Toronto Maple Leafs LD 73.90 36 46 22 L Detroit Red Wings Josh Manson Anaheim Ducks RD 73.55 36 47 27 R Winnipeg Jets Nick Holden Vegas Golden Knights LD 73.88 37 51 31 L Carolina Hurricanes Kevin Shattenkirk New York Rangers RD 73.50 37 40 29 R Philadelphia Flyers Andrej Sekera Edmonton Oilers LD 73.80 38 0 32 L Philadelphia Flyers Sami Vatanen New Jersey Devils RD 73.48 38 45 27 R Pittsburgh Penguins Ivan Provorov Philadelphia Flyers LD 73.66 39 48 22 L Winnipeg Jets Anton Stralman Tampa Bay Lightning RD 73.44 39 31 32 R Pittsburgh Penguins Brenden Dillon San Jose Sharks LD 73.58 40 52 28 L Arizona Coyotes Matt Niskanen Washington Capitals RD 73.44 40 48 32 R Calgary Flames Dmitri Orlov Washington Capitals LD 73.50 41 50 27 L Calgary Flames Kevan Miller Boston Bruins RD 73.23 41 23 31 R Winnipeg Jets Dean Kukan Columbus Blue Jackets LD 73.45 42 9 25 L Buffalo Sabres Filip Hronek Detroit Red Wings RD 72.94 42 23 21 R Toronto Maple Leafs Alec Martinez Los Angeles Kings LD 73.40 43 36 31 L New York Islanders Paul LaDue Los Angeles Kings RD 72.78 43 15 26 R New York Islanders Jonas Brodin Minnesota Wild LD 73.34 44 50 25 L Dallas Stars Ron Hainsey Toronto Maple Leafs LD 72.67 44 49 37 L Detroit Red Wings Ryan Graves Colorado Avalanche D 73.33 45 9 23 L Vancouver Canucks Radko Gudas Philadelphia Flyers RD 72.64 45 46 28 R Winnipeg Jets Alex Goligoski Arizona Coyotes LD 73.33 46 44 33 L San Jose Sharks Pretty good looking top 100 if you ask me. These are rankings based on an algorithm, not a ranking of how good they think each defenseman is. Thomas Chabot fell in this alogirthm because he gets littered with shots against on a bad Ottawa team (on which he plays a ton of minutes). He also has been on the ice for a ton of goals against, even more so than Gudbranson. He's 21 and his defense is likely to improve (and hopefully Ottawa can get him away from Cody Ceci). Wouldn't be surprised to see him rated far higher in the years to come. I'll take the algorithm against Gudbranson, instead of a 0.13 rating difference outlier who, while being very productive offensively, has weak underlying stats due to Ottawa's absolutely terrible d-corps (and his own defensive misgivings). Gudbranson hasn't had that excuse as he's played with Ben Hutton most of the year, who does very well when he's away from Guddy. Edited January 28, 2019 by Duodenum 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Duodenum Posted January 28, 2019 Share Posted January 28, 2019 Gudbranson 25 goals for while on the ice, 47 goals against (top 10 in GA in the league amongst dmen) Shot attempts while on the ice: 610 for, 808 against Giveaways to takeaway: 15 to 69 over three years (also lowest takeaway ability on the team) Points: 19 points in 128 games Minus 20 on the year. -41 over 128 games. Then more advanced ones: xGF/60: one of the worst in the league Controlled zone exits: terrible Scoring chances for/60: brutal Goals above replacement: only dman on the team performing below replacement level Corsica rating: near last place in entire league WAR: one of the worst (might be the worst, haven't checked) (everyone does better without Gudbranson) Let's face the facts people. Can you explain the above? I certainly can't come up with an excuse for Gudbranson. Can anyone explain why Gudbranson is a good defenseman but cannot 1) drive any offense and 2) keep the puck out of his own net This is hockey. To break it down simply, you win by outscoring the opponent. Other things like toughness help in that regard but can't be seen on the scoresheet. One thing is certain though and that's the best teams have players that supply character and toughness, but can play the game of hockey as well. Gudbranson cannot. He has shown this for 3 years. If after 3 years of watching Gudbranson pull the puck out of his own net hasn't shown you why he's a liability, please explain why. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kushman Posted January 28, 2019 Share Posted January 28, 2019 7 minutes ago, Duodenum said: Gudbranson 25 goals for while on the ice, 47 goals against (top 10 in GA in the league amongst dmen) Shot attempts while on the ice: 610 for, 808 against Giveaways to takeaway: 15 to 69 over three years (also lowest takeaway ability on the team) Points: 19 points in 128 games Minus 20 on the year. -41 over 128 games. Then more advanced ones: xGF/60: one of the worst in the league Controlled zone exits: terrible Scoring chances for/60: brutal Goals above replacement: only dman on the team performing below replacement level Corsica rating: near last place in entire league WAR: one of the worst (might be the worst, haven't checked) (everyone does better without Gudbranson) Let's face the facts people. Can you explain the above? I certainly can't come up with an excuse for Gudbranson. Can anyone explain why Gudbranson is a good defenseman but cannot 1) drive any offense and 2) keep the puck out of his own net This is hockey. To break it down simply, you win by outscoring the opponent. Other things like toughness help in that regard but can't be seen on the scoresheet. One thing is certain though and that's the best teams have players that supply character and toughness, but can play the game of hockey as well. Gudbranson cannot. He has shown this for 3 years. If after 3 years of watching Gudbranson pull the puck out of his own net hasn't shown you why he's a liability, please explain why. Gudbranson is a very poor defenseman but he brings a level of toughness to this team that we simply (for the time being) cannot go without. He keeps other teams goons pretty much in check, even if hes not fighting on a regular basis (look at how soft matthew tkachuk has been everytime we've played the flames... doesn't want to end up like hamonic). Guaranteed if he was out of the lineup, you'd see the pests from other teams taking far more liberties against our guys. I'd like gudbranson to either be a 3rd pairing guy, or replaced completely but only if we can replace his toughness/intimidation factor. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Duodenum Posted January 28, 2019 Share Posted January 28, 2019 3 minutes ago, Kushman said: Gudbranson is a very poor defenseman but he brings a level of toughness to this team that we simply (for the time being) cannot go without. He keeps other teams goons pretty much in check, even if hes not fighting on a regular basis (look at how soft matthew tkachuk has been everytime we've played the flames... doesn't want to end up like hamonic). Guaranteed if he was out of the lineup, you'd see the pests from other teams taking far more liberties against our guys. I'd like gudbranson to either be a 3rd pairing guy, or replaced completely but only if we can replace his toughness/intimidation factor. Sure, I can compromise with you there, he definitely has a bigger intimidation factor than any other player on the team. Unlucky for us in that the top teams have much better players satisfying that need for them, some even by their star players like Ovechkin, Wheeler, Marchand, and Schiefele, who don't need much protection. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SilentSam Posted January 28, 2019 Share Posted January 28, 2019 (edited) 2 hours ago, PhillipBlunt said: JD Burke, along with other local analytics parasites seemingly have a fetish for Gudbranson. They seem determined to undermine him and smear his name. It's pretty pathetic and clearly some of the posters in this thread lately, are either disciples of Burke's stats only approach, or are Burke and company themselves. Have to admit that most hockey journalism in this town is pathetic.. if it isn’t the Men who wear Depends on 1040,. Now the childish drivel and Harry Potter fantasy on 650 can drive a guy nuts. I do look forward to Todd Bertuzzi on Tuesday mornings.. always telling it like it is.. if the baby cakes asking him questions start to get off track, he’s quick to drop the mitts on em. Edited January 28, 2019 by SilentSam 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SilentSam Posted January 28, 2019 Share Posted January 28, 2019 14 minutes ago, PhillipBlunt said: Well done, JD. Lace up your skates and do better. Oh right, you don't play the game or know &^@# all about it. L O V E that sig PB !! Says it all.. there is no one else on this club ready to answer when needed.. not Tanev, Not Edler.. no one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Duodenum Posted January 28, 2019 Share Posted January 28, 2019 (edited) 23 minutes ago, PhillipBlunt said: Well done, JD. Lace up your skates and do better. Oh right, you don't play the game or know &^@# all about it. I thought the bold might help our local posters with weaker reading comprehension. Then I went a step further with the underlining. Somehow, it still managed to get by you Phillip, outstanding work. Let me find it for you again, I'll make it a bit easier this time. If after 3 years of watching Gudbranson pull the puck out of his own net hasn't shown you why he's a liability, please explain why. Wait that didn't work last time, I'll give you the benefit of the doubt that you're not just a useless troll. Here you go: If after 3 years of watching Gudbranson pull the puck out of his own net hasn't shown you why he's a liability, please explain why. I'm here to discuss a player, not trade insults. Stop trying to goad people into a confrontation. If you have nothing, that's fine. Stop insulting those that do. Edited January 28, 2019 by Duodenum Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FaninMex Posted January 28, 2019 Share Posted January 28, 2019 1 hour ago, Duodenum said: Gudbranson 25 goals for while on the ice, 47 goals against (top 10 in GA in the league amongst dmen) Shot attempts while on the ice: 610 for, 808 against Giveaways to takeaway: 15 to 69 over three years (also lowest takeaway ability on the team) Points: 19 points in 128 games Minus 20 on the year. -41 over 128 games. Then more advanced ones: xGF/60: one of the worst in the league Controlled zone exits: terrible Scoring chances for/60: brutal Goals above replacement: only dman on the team performing below replacement level Corsica rating: near last place in entire league WAR: one of the worst (might be the worst, haven't checked) (everyone does better without Gudbranson) Let's face the facts people. Can you explain the above? I certainly can't come up with an excuse for Gudbranson. Can anyone explain why Gudbranson is a good defenseman but cannot 1) drive any offense and 2) keep the puck out of his own net This is hockey. To break it down simply, you win by outscoring the opponent. Other things like toughness help in that regard but can't be seen on the scoresheet. One thing is certain though and that's the best teams have players that supply character and toughness, but can play the game of hockey as well. Gudbranson cannot. He has shown this for 3 years. If after 3 years of watching Gudbranson pull the puck out of his own net hasn't shown you why he's a liability, please explain why. So you would prefer Derrick Pouliot over Gudbranson according to this? I would prefer Gudbranson. I prefer having a Gudbranson in front of our net then Ferland standing there against Pouliot. Analytics can be manipulated to make any point sound great. Isn't the Arizona GM a big Analytics fan too? They must be dominating the league then. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Duodenum Posted January 28, 2019 Share Posted January 28, 2019 (edited) 10 minutes ago, FaninMex said: So you would prefer Derrick Pouliot over Gudbranson according to this? I would prefer Gudbranson. I prefer having a Gudbranson in front of our net then Ferland standing there against Pouliot. Analytics can be manipulated to make any point sound great. Isn't the Arizona GM a big Analytics fan too? They must be dominating the league then. Arizona has no money to work with regardless of what the GM believes in. Analytics will never be the end all be all. I would prefer neither but I would say Pouliot has been more effective than Gudbranson in his time with the Canucks. The main problem with Pouliot is his giveaways and goals against are optically far worse looking than Gudbranson's. Otherwise, he spends less time in his own zone because he is more adept and 1) taking the puck away from opposing forwards and 2) is better than Gudbranson at driving play towards the offensive zone. Gudbranson's main problem is that he is terrible at getting the puck to our forwards, which leads to a ton of time spent in his own zone. Optically, it's not as bad as Pouliot, but in terms of actual numbers, he's worse. He's also far slower than Pouliot, can't keep up with speedy forwards, and can't hold the line as well as Pouliot (both offensive and defensive). More time spent in your own zone means more goals against. Doesn't look as bad as Pouliot, but he costs you more goals against 5 on 5. Sure I'd prefer Gudbranson in front of the net against Ferland. But I'd also prefer Pouliot defending the zone entry against Ferland so that he doesn't have to defend in the d zone in the first place. We'd be better off with upgrades on both for sure though. This is not an "analytic": Gudbranson 25 goals for, 47 against. Pouliot, is comparison, has 34 goals for and 28 against. Pouliot has been on the ice for 1 less goal against every 2-3 games, that's a pretty big difference. Canucks would be well over .500 if Guddy had Pouliot's numbers. The question you should be asking is: why does Gudbranson have so many goals against 3 years running in comparison to our other dmen (and around the league)? Edited January 28, 2019 by Duodenum 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FaninMex Posted January 28, 2019 Share Posted January 28, 2019 Add to the analytic chart GWG and Derrick Pouliot would be the best D on the team. I think John Garret said a few games ago that all of Pouliot's goals have been GWG so he would have amazing stats. As I have said before, it is manipulative and proves a theory that was established in ones mind prior. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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