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Ben Hutton | #27 | D


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6 hours ago, NHL97OneTimer said:

Ben Hutton likely has the AHL at the bottom and the second line of this team at his peak (but not the second line of other teams).  The reality is that he's probably the 7th D as it stands now.  BUT, I do think it's too early to write him off as an AHLer.  Tough to fix the bad play and skating but certainly within reach to correct his attitude and fitness level.  

 

I'm being a realist that the status quo isn't good enough but I'm also not writing him off......I think this market turns against players too quickly when they have a bad couple of years which I think is tough when a player is still below the prime age.

This ^ seems to me to be about the best summary of Hutton. I won't be surprised if he is back, and further wouldn't be surprised to see him sent down. I do think this is the year he either "gets it" or he's gone. He has the size to be an effective Dman, and he had the mobility. I think he's tried to upgrade his size, but it has cost him in movement. Maybe if he trimmed 5-10 pounds off to regain some speed and movement, he would be better off. The fact that he had a bad season this year shouldn't be cause to say he's finished. But...with our improving depth, if he doesn't improve enough by the TDL, I see moving him. After all, he was only a 5th round pick. He's already played more than the average 5th rounder, so that's a win (one of the few for Gillis).

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3 hours ago, NHL97OneTimer said:

See answer above. 

 

Feeling a little knee-jerk reaction Rob?!!!  A bit overstated.  Why don't you also tell me then that whoever is drafted this year will have the same chance of making the team as Bo because it's up to the process and coaches?!!!  The link was provided simply as a source which has been consistently tracking the young guys throughout the year.  

The link is crap and so why even bother quoting it.   No knee jerk.   The jerk is the idiot who wrote that based upon nothing more than a desire to stir a pot.   The knee is to the groin of that idiot.   

 

Why not quote some real hockey people and/or better yet, watch the prospects yourself versus parroting some idiot who clearly never laced up and who even more clearly is one of the media trolls called out earlier this year.     

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9 hours ago, NHL97OneTimer said:

Down the line is the key point here......not this season for these names (except maybe Sautner?).

You could probably throw McEneny in there. And certainly Juolevi. Never mind any free agents/trades. 

 

That's a lot of guys competing for 3 starting spots and a spare. 

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4 hours ago, NHL97OneTimer said:

Sure.......except it's been a consistent story that Juolevi isn't ready yet.  

From whom?   Botchford?    He was Finland's best player at WJC and the top D in the playoffs for his team.   There is no "consistent story" about not being ready.   He demonstrated substantial growth in his game over the year and his trajectory looks like it could well be NHL ready come October.

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5 hours ago, NHL97OneTimer said:

Sure.......except it's been a consistent story that Juolevi isn't ready yet.  Only in the past few weeks has he been playing first line minutes on the D end.  I think you've supported the point that he's still young and will be ready when he's ready.  My point is that it's a leap to think he'll push Hutton out of a spot this year.

Hutton has a full summer to make some improvements on his fitness and edge work.  I'm sure the book isn't closed on him.

 

Juolevi needed a wake up call.  I hope that Green's disappointment with his fitness last summer registered.  A half or full year in Utica might do him some good.  I get the impression that North America's second league is much larger and deeper than most Europeans realize.  I'm hoping that Juolevi gets games in Utica this spring.  The kid has the talent and the IQ, now he has to put in the work.  If he has to fight his way to the NHL, that is a good thing.

 

Benning wanted competition and it looks like he's going to get it.  2 of MDZ, Pouliot, Hutton and Juolevi will play as the line up sits now.  Who's it going to be?

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3 hours ago, Rob_Zepp said:

The link is crap and so why even bother quoting it.   No knee jerk.   The jerk is the idiot who wrote that based upon nothing more than a desire to stir a pot.   The knee is to the groin of that idiot.   

 

Why not quote some real hockey people and/or better yet, watch the prospects yourself versus parroting some idiot who clearly never laced up and who even more clearly is one of the media trolls called out earlier this year.     

I'll admit it.  I haven't seen him play in Finland.  Since you have such a strong opinion here, please enlighten me what you've seen with cherry-picked highlights on YouTube or while eating popcorn on the side?!!!  Kidding aside, I don't disagree with you about Botch and would love to see that knee find him.  But I think the fact that Juolevi is still young and played most of his time on the third pairing without being dominant in a league which is a large step away from the NHL.......so, it would be reasonable to assume that there's a good chance he will not be ready to make the Canucks this year.  It's better for him to be getting first line minutes in a lower league than a handful of minutes in a handful of games in the NHL.  On this basis, I think it's likely that Hutton still has this year to prove he's an NHLer before he's squeezed out by Juolevi.

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1 minute ago, NHL97OneTimer said:

I'll admit it.  I haven't seen him play in Finland.  Since you have such a strong opinion here, please enlighten me what you've seen with cherry-picked highlights on YouTube or while eating popcorn on the side?!!!  Kidding aside, I don't disagree with you about Botch and would love to see that knee find him.  But I think the fact that Juolevi is still young and played most of his time on the third pairing without being dominant in a league which is a large step away from the NHL.......so, it would be reasonable to assume that there's a good chance he will not be ready to make the Canucks this year.  It's better for him to be getting first line minutes in a lower league than a handful of minutes in a handful of games in the NHL.  On this basis, I think it's likely that Hutton still has this year to prove he's an NHLer before he's squeezed out by Juolevi.

Be prepared for his "I've played in the bigsand have access to sources that you aren't privy to" rant.

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10 hours ago, RetroCanuck said:

I think Hutton is moved, but I think McEneny is the guy thats going to surprise and take a spot next year. I was impressed with Sautner though so wont be surprised if he makes the team.

 

Edler, DelZotto, Pouliot, McEneny/Sautner on LD to start. Trade one of Edler or Del Zotto at deadline and bring up Juolevi.

Interesting thought about McEneny........injured and didn't play much last year so tough to say. 

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On 4/3/2018 at 12:20 PM, aGENT said:

I'd hope we move MDZ this summer, and let Hutton and Pouliot duke it out to start the year (hopefully both improving to up their value) and then move one of them (keeping the better of the two ideally) to make room for OJ later in the season.

So you're rather have one of Hutton or Pouliot?  I wouldn't.

 

MDZ isn't the best defenseman in the world, but he's better than either guy you mentioned by a country mile.  

Why? 


Well for starters, he's the third highest ppg defenseman on our team.  Yes, he is slightly behind Pouliot in this regard but clearly ahead of Hutton. For a team that scores little from the blueline, we don't want to make things worse.

 

Second is his +/-.  I know, I know, this is a team stat any isn't the be-all-end-all.  But I do value the stat to some degree - especially when comparing players who play in similar roles and scenarios.  Del Zotto was a -8.  Pouliot was worse on our entire team with a -22.  If Pouliot played a defensive role, then I'd give him some slack but he's largely deployed in the offensive zone.  Hutton, for the record, is -9 and played less games.  So Del Zotto wins this.

 

But here's the big stat that cannot be ignored.  Del Zotto's 244 hits is very good. Who's next up on the list? Edler at 157.  (Who, admittedly, had a really good year)  That's darn near 100 hits more a season.  How many did Pouliot get?  79.  Hutton only 40. (Granted, he played less games)  This is a huuuuugggeee difference.  For a team that is considered soft by most, can we afford to give up the hits?

 

So with MDZ at 3m, I'd take him any day of the week over Hutton who makes 2.8. - even if Hutton has more room to improve. At least with Pouliot we have a discount price, but who knows what he will sign for now that he is RFA.  I don't think he'd get a big raise, so the salary will still be in his favour at least. But he's not even close to having the same all-around game as MDZ.  Nor is Hutton.

So to say you'd pick both over MDZ, I'm quite surprised. We need what MDZ brings to the table - at least for now.  And with cap not being an issue right now and Del Zotto only having one year left on his contract, I wouldn't be interested in moving him.

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32 minutes ago, kloubek said:

So you're rather have one of Hutton or Pouliot?  I wouldn't.

 

MDZ isn't the best defenseman in the world, but he's better than either guy you mentioned by a country mile.  

Why? 


Well for starters, he's the third highest ppg defenseman on our team.  Yes, he is slightly behind Pouliot in this regard but clearly ahead of Hutton. For a team that scores little from the blueline, we don't want to make things worse.

 

Second is his +/-.  I know, I know, this is a team stat any isn't the be-all-end-all.  But I do value the stat to some degree - especially when comparing players who play in similar roles and scenarios.  Del Zotto was a -8.  Pouliot was worse on our entire team with a -22.  If Pouliot played a defensive role, then I'd give him some slack but he's largely deployed in the offensive zone.  Hutton, for the record, is -9 and played less games.  So Del Zotto wins this.

 

But here's the big stat that cannot be ignored.  Del Zotto's 244 hits is very good. Who's next up on the list? Edler at 157.  (Who, admittedly, had a really good year)  That's darn near 100 hits more a season.  How many did Pouliot get?  79.  Hutton only 40. (Granted, he played less games)  This is a huuuuugggeee difference.  For a team that is considered soft by most, can we afford to give up the hits?

 

So with MDZ at 3m, I'd take him any day of the week over Hutton who makes 2.8. - even if Hutton has more room to improve. At least with Pouliot we have a discount price, but who knows what he will sign for now that he is RFA.  I don't think he'd get a big raise, so the salary will still be in his favour at least. But he's not even close to having the same all-around game as MDZ.  Nor is Hutton.

So to say you'd pick both over MDZ, I'm quite surprised. We need what MDZ brings to the table - at least for now.  And with cap not being an issue right now and Del Zotto only having one year left on his contract, I wouldn't be interested in moving him.

Two of them will likely be gone by next TDL regardless.

 

I'm fine with keeping MDZ until then and moving Hutton as well but he is younger, has more upside and we'd be selling low on him. It really has very little to do with their play (which, as you pointed out isn't that far off one way or the other and mediocre regardless). 

 

 

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14 hours ago, NHL97OneTimer said:

Juolevi won't be ready this year......at least that's what The Province is hinting at:

 

http://theprovince.com/sports/hockey/nhl/vancouver-canucks/hutton-on-hot-seat-as-canucks-defence-must-get-better

So this guy^^^^ takes Botchford's single line where he states "Olli Juolevi, the team’s top defensive prospect, looks a couple of years away from being an impact player" as Juolevi won't be ready for the NHL this fall.  According to this guy^^^^, a prospect has to be an impact player to be in the NHL.  Riddle me this...how is a brain-dead Hutton who is barely an AHLer (okay, an exaggeration) in the NHL (albeit he's been a healthy scratch more times than I can remember)? 

 

This guy's^^^^ "analysis" makes me laugh :lol:.

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2 hours ago, NHL97OneTimer said:

Interesting thought about McEneny........injured and didn't play much last year so tough to say. 

It will depend on how he's recovered from injury but he has the history with green, is a tough defensive player, has good offensive tools (7P in 11GP at the beginning of last year) and he plays a style that will fit well with our system.

 

In my mind he's better then Sautner because of being just as good defensively and having some more offensive upside. 

 

I like Hutton but his lack of drive that Green was talking about is concerning. Id trade him but for no less then a third and then let Benning perform his magic. Benning has drafted DiPietro, Lockwood, Brisebois and Tryamkin in the third round. Id like to see that again.

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1 hour ago, aGENT said:

Two of them will likely be gone by next TDL regardless.

 

I'm fine with keeping MDZ until then and moving Hutton as well but he is younger, has more upside and we'd be selling low on him. It really has very little to do with their play (which, as you pointed out isn't that far off one way or the other and mediocre regardless). 

 

 

I agree with all of this.  We wouldn't get squat for Hutton I don't think. It isn't that he doesn't have upside and isn't a great guy, but his contract demands that he show more than he has.  Not sure if even for free many GMs would be that interested unless they have cap space to throw away. We might as well keep him and hope he works his butt off in the offseason.  If he doesn't, I consider him a lost cause anyway and we can trade him whatever we can get, or even waive him for all I care.
 

I would like to see Pouliot qualified but nothing more.  Give him one more year to show improvement and if we don't see it from him either, guh-by.  And MDZ, well, we keep him for the year trade him at the deadline. Improve the d either through this draft or the next, or by UFA or trade over the course of 2 offseasons and a full season.  If we haven't put together what appears to be at least an average D by then while we wait for the draft selections to be ready, I think we are in trouble

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2 minutes ago, kloubek said:

I agree with all of this.  We wouldn't get squat for Hutton I don't think. It isn't that he doesn't have upside and isn't a great guy, but his contract demands that he show more than he has.  Not sure if even for free many GMs would be that interested unless they have cap space to throw away. We might as well keep him and hope he works his butt off in the offseason.  If he doesn't, I consider him a lost cause anyway and we can trade him whatever we can get, or even waive him for all I care.
 

I would like to see Pouliot qualified but nothing more.  Give him one more year to show improvement and if we don't see it from him either, guh-by.  And MDZ, well, we keep him for the year trade him at the deadline. Improve the d either through this draft or the next, or by UFA or trade over the course of 2 offseasons and a full season.  If we haven't put together what appears to be at least an average D by then while we wait for the draft selections to be ready, I think we are in trouble

Thing is I don't see us going much past October with all three of those guys. Somebody's getting traded/waived IMO.

 

Just too many bodies with Edler, MDZ, Pouliot, Hutton and then Juolevi, McEneny, Sautner, Brisebois etc all pressing for spots.

 

Then there's also my dream of Tanev+ to PHI for Sanheim and their 14th OA ::D

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28 minutes ago, aGENT said:

Thing is I don't see us going much past October with all three of those guys. Somebody's getting traded/waived IMO.

 

Just too many bodies with Edler, MDZ, Pouliot, Hutton and then Juolevi, McEneny, Sautner, Brisebois etc all pressing for spots.

 

Then there's also my dream of Tanev+ to PHI for Sanheim and their 14th OA ::D

You're right... there is only so many we can carry.  I do think that while Sautner looked alright and Brisebois has some skill, I don't think it is inevitable ANY of those guys you mentioned will make the team.  It may not be quite as much of a glut as you think.  (Though there will still be a glut). 

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2 minutes ago, kloubek said:

You're right... there is only so many we can carry.  I do think that while Sautner looked alright and Brisebois has some skill, I don't think it is inevitable ANY of those guys you mentioned will make the team.  It may not be quite as much of a glut as you think.  (Though there will still be a glut). 

Even with them in Utica, Hutton doesn't particularly suit the role of a 7th/8th D, which is where he currently sits without any moves. There's already a 'glut' even without those guys.

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2 hours ago, aGENT said:

Even with them in Utica, Hutton doesn't particularly suit the role of a 7th/8th D, which is where he currently sits without any moves. There's already a 'glut' even without those guys.

...if for no other reason that your 7th dman shouldn't be getting paid nearly 3m! But yeah - if he is going to be in this league, he has to improve and to do that, he has to play.

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2 hours ago, kloubek said:

You're right... there is only so many we can carry.  I do think that while Sautner looked alright and Brisebois has some skill, I don't think it is inevitable ANY of those guys you mentioned will make the team.  It may not be quite as much of a glut as you think.  (Though there will still be a glut). 

So you are not on the trade Gudbranson and keep Sautner camp? Yep, trade a +300 game d-man and keep a rookie with less than 10 games because you have to know he is a better player! 

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