73 Percent Posted March 10, 2017 Share Posted March 10, 2017 Just now, The 5th Line said: Noo I'm basically just saying I wish we had those three to choose from because they are all looking like studs, but instead we drafted a defenceman in a forward heavy top 10 last year. Gotcha. I read it wrong. Sounded like you were faulting someone for not grabbing one of the 3. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ihatetomatoes Posted March 10, 2017 Share Posted March 10, 2017 2 hours ago, The 5th Line said: They rely heavily on Mete, he is their big minute muncher. They also had to bring in another offensive defenceman in Van De Sompel at the deadline because they weren't getting enough from the back end. He's a proclaimed puck moving, Two way defenseman, why wouldn't he be expected to take a jump offensively? In fact, any player with that pedigree should be expected to take a big jump. Not really, Juolevi's 2 way play comes with his abilities to get the puck out of the zone and make good breakout passes. I don't think he'll ever be a big point producer. From watching him play he has the skills to be an offensive guy but instead he plays very conservatively. The game I see him play in Juniors is the game I see him playing in the NHL. Sure it would be nice if he puts up more points but he'll still be a valuable defensman putting up 20-30 points. Think of how valuable a guy like Tanev is and he's a complete black hole offensively. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Warhippy Posted March 10, 2017 Popular Post Share Posted March 10, 2017 Sounds a LOT like Waaahhhh we shoulda drafted Tkachuk still Last year the Knights finished with 319 Goals for 182 Goals against. As of now 265 goals for 175 against with 6 games left to play To say somehow that Juolevi is not driving offense or is somehow not preventing goals or making a jump is reaching about as far as a person with a tragic argument could. he's set to finish with more points in less games played and less ice time overall on a team that lost it's entire top line as well as 2 of it's top 4 To say he's not progressing or is somehow not growing is sad and in no way shape or form can it be proven when looking at his stats vs ice time vs games played. Take your lust for a Flame elsewhere, this argument is just sad. Juolevi is a gem and he's going to have a long solid career with the canucks 11 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adarsh Sant Posted March 10, 2017 Share Posted March 10, 2017 6 minutes ago, Warhippy said: Sounds a LOT like Waaahhhh we shoulda drafted Tkachuk still Last year the Knights finished with 319 Goals for 182 Goals against. As of now 265 goals for 175 against with 6 games left to play To say somehow that Juolevi is not driving offense or is somehow not preventing goals or making a jump is reaching about as far as a person with a tragic argument could. he's set to finish with more points in less games played and less ice time overall on a team that lost it's entire top line as well as 2 of it's top 4 To say he's not progressing or is somehow not growing is sad and in no way shape or form can it be proven when looking at his stats vs ice time vs games played. Take your lust for a Flame elsewhere, this argument is just sad. Juolevi is a gem and he's going to have a long solid career with the canucks For a top 5 draft pick, he should be absolutely insane in his draft plus one year. He isn't producing, or playing defensively like the highest defenseman drafted in his draft. He is progressing, but not as much as he should be. Especially compared to the players drafted AFTER him. Look at the list (Tkachuk, Keller, Sergachev, Jost, Mcleod, Kunin, McAvoy. Chychrun). I'd rather have McAvoy (14th overall) or Sergachev (9th overall) than Juolevi if we had to pick again. And that is only considering D-men. However, this one year doesn't define him, and anything can happen when he gets to AHL/NHL. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alflives Posted March 10, 2017 Share Posted March 10, 2017 3 minutes ago, Adarsh Sant said: For a top 5 draft pick, he should be absolutely insane in his draft plus one year. He isn't producing, or playing defensively like the highest defenseman drafted in his draft. He is progressing, but not as much as he should be. Especially compared to the players drafted AFTER him. Look at the list (Tkachuk, Keller, Sergachev, Jost, Mcleod, Kunin, McAvoy. Chychrun). I'd rather have McAvoy (14th overall) or Sergachev (9th overall) than Juolevi if we had to pick again. And that is only considering D-men. However, this one year doesn't define him, and anything can happen when he gets to AHL/NHL. I kind of remember JB saying last year they drafted for position. Didn't he say something like they had drafted forwards with their previous 4 first round picks, and the Canuck's hadn't drafted a D with a first round pick since Bourdon, so it was time the organization used their top pick on D? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gaudette Celly Posted March 10, 2017 Share Posted March 10, 2017 1 hour ago, Adarsh Sant said: I'd rather have McAvoy (14th overall) or Sergachev (9th overall) than Juolevi if we had to pick again. If only hindsight actually had a lick of value in regards to drafting. Still awaiting the first re-draft ever... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ihatetomatoes Posted March 10, 2017 Share Posted March 10, 2017 1 hour ago, Adarsh Sant said: For a top 5 draft pick, he should be absolutely insane in his draft plus one year. He isn't producing, or playing defensively like the highest defenseman drafted in his draft. He is progressing, but not as much as he should be. Especially compared to the players drafted AFTER him. Look at the list (Tkachuk, Keller, Sergachev, Jost, Mcleod, Kunin, McAvoy. Chychrun). I'd rather have McAvoy (14th overall) or Sergachev (9th overall) than Juolevi if we had to pick again. And that is only considering D-men. However, this one year doesn't define him, and anything can happen when he gets to AHL/NHL. If a guy should be so "Insane" in his draft plus one year and you'd rather have Sergachev than shouldn't he be putting up "insane" numbers as well? Sergachev 15/16 67gp 57pts .85ppg 16/17 45gp 42pts .93ppg Juolevi 15/16 57gp 42pts .73ppg 16/17 52gp 40pts .77ppg So Sergachev has upped his ppg by .8 and Juolevi by .5. Is that extra .3 really "insane"? You'd rather have Sergachev because in his draft+1 year he's putting up and extra .8ppg vs Juolevi at an extra .5ppg? Sergachev may very well end up being the better choice but saying Juolevi is having some garbage +1 season while he's upped his ppg on a worse team and upped in only marginally less than the next best defenseman taken is a silly argument. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Warhippy Posted March 10, 2017 Share Posted March 10, 2017 1 hour ago, Adarsh Sant said: For a top 5 draft pick, he should be absolutely insane in his draft plus one year. He isn't producing, or playing defensively like the highest defenseman drafted in his draft. He is progressing, but not as much as he should be. Especially compared to the players drafted AFTER him. Look at the list (Tkachuk, Keller, Sergachev, Jost, Mcleod, Kunin, McAvoy. Chychrun). I'd rather have McAvoy (14th overall) or Sergachev (9th overall) than Juolevi if we had to pick again. And that is only considering D-men. However, this one year doesn't define him, and anything can happen when he gets to AHL/NHL. Draft year 2003 Games played 60. Points: 32 Draft year +1 Games played 55. Points: 41 Who am I talking about? Saying "insane" in his draft year +1 is kind of silly. Players produce and progress at different levels. It isn't about what he is doing with less games played, less ice time and less pp time in his +1 year, it is what will he be doing in 5-10 years from now Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ForsbergTheGreat Posted March 10, 2017 Share Posted March 10, 2017 50 minutes ago, Warhippy said: Draft year 2003 Games played 60. Points: 32 Draft year +1 Games played 55. Points: 41 Who am I talking about? Shea Weber.... What do i win? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vancan2233 Posted March 10, 2017 Share Posted March 10, 2017 34 minutes ago, Warhippy said: Draft year 2003 Games played 60. Points: 32 Draft year +1 Games played 55. Points: 41 Who am I talking about? Saying "insane" in his draft year +1 is kind of silly. Players produce and progress at different levels. It isn't about what he is doing with less games played, less ice time and less pp time in his +1 year, it is what will he be doing in 5-10 years from now Shea Weber How can people not be happy about Juolevi, he slows the game down and makes it look easy. I do not know about everyone else, but the hand full of games I have seen him play Olli is always making plays that turn out to be more valuable then first viewed. I am not going to explain "more valuable then viewed" because you have to have a deep understanding of the game to understand. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lethal_spaghetti Posted March 10, 2017 Share Posted March 10, 2017 10 minutes ago, vancan2233 said: Shea Weber How can people not be happy about Juolevi, he slows the game down and makes it look easy. I do not know about everyone else, but the hand full of games I have seen him play Olli is always making plays that turn out to be more valuable then first viewed. I am not going to explain "more valuable then viewed" because you have to have a deep understanding of the game to understand. I agreee 100% he is so calm on the ice with or without the puck. His first pass or ability to escape the forecheck are huge parts of his game that maybe overlooked by some who only look at the stat sheet at the end of the game. Once he brings this ability to players of NHL calibre skill perhaps he starts to put up points (since that is important to some). I for one am not disappointed with this pick. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Warhippy Posted March 10, 2017 Share Posted March 10, 2017 6 minutes ago, ForsbergTheGreat said: Shea Weber.... What do i win? All the internet points And one tasteless gentleman meme 5 minutes ago, vancan2233 said: Shea Weber How can people not be happy about Juolevi, he slows the game down and makes it look easy. I do not know about everyone else, but the hand full of games I have seen him play Olli is always making plays that turn out to be more valuable then first viewed. I am not going to explain "more valuable then viewed" because you have to have a deep understanding of the game to understand. Yessa But pointz are citing and citement is moneizzz People don't like the defenseman pick because he's not putting points on the board right now and might never break 50 points. But then the other pick might never win a scoring title or trophy of any kind anyways. People want instant gratifcation. Remarkably, they absolutely crap on the Juolevi pick, but then also crap on edler/Sbisa and suggest exposing or trading them never once considering where their replacements might come from. ironic no? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jägermeister Posted March 10, 2017 Share Posted March 10, 2017 He really does remind me of Dan Hamhuis though. Simple and smart hockey. Not overly strong, but doesn't need to be as he always seems to just have his body and stick in the right spot to make the play. Not a phenomenal shooter, but gets the puck to the net. Not sensational with his puck skills, but he is a great passer as he has the vision to make some sneaky passes on the breakout and in the offensive zone. Not a dynamic skater, but quick and agile, and has more than enough speed to make a break when he needs to. Skill wise, pretty much just a good at everything but great at nothing kind of guy. But just like Hammer he has tremendous hockey sense. I think he has a little bit more untapped offensive potential however thanks to his playmaking abilities. If he has a career anything like Hammers I'll be very pleased. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vancan2233 Posted March 10, 2017 Share Posted March 10, 2017 11 hours ago, The 5th Line said: Boeser, Virtanen, Juolevi all with underwhelming seasons, stats wise anyways...Pretty depressing considering those are supposed to be our top 3 prospects. Juolevi is also not known as someone who spends a lot of time in the gym so I hope that changes real quick or I hope it already has. If he's gonna play the lackadaisical, effortless style of game he better put on some muscle to compensate for his lack of aggression. What does putting on muscle have to do with his aggression. Yes he has to get stronger and gain weight but this well only help with what he is already excellent at using his stick to stop plays and stealing the puck. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Warhippy Posted March 10, 2017 Share Posted March 10, 2017 Just now, vancan2233 said: What does putting on muscle have to do with his aggression. Yes he has to get stronger and gain weight but this well only help with what he is already excellent at using his stick to stop plays and stealing the puck. Lidstrom, Suter, Subban, Karlsson, Keith, Seabrook, All massive meat heads who CRUSH their opponents in to the ice and stomp on them ala Pronger and if they die...they die Because aggression/muscle is all that's important. Obviously that's why those 5 have won, or are always in the talks for a Norris trophy. Obviously Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
N4ZZY Posted March 11, 2017 Share Posted March 11, 2017 19 minutes ago, The 5th Line said: You can go read the Knights fan forum on Hf and take the word of people who watch games regularly and that have been doing so for years, and they aren't your regular hf poster, they are people there strictly to discuss their local Junior club.. Do the math, the Knights are on pace to score just 27 less goals than they did last year. Dvorak, Tkatchuk and Marner make a difference of a whopping 27 goals.. Getting less ice time? But why? Why should some of us not be concerned that he is getting less ice time and that the ice time he has lost is being give to someone drafted 95 spots behind him? He's scoring at a .77 ppg pace. Last year he scored at a .74 ppg pace. Not much of a jump there considering he was supposedly the best defenceman in the draft, a cerebral puck mover and all that. You can take a look at Sergachev if you want, his teams goal production is way down this year but he has managed to get his PPG production way up. That is expected of high draft picks, lots of ice time and lots of points. Sure I haven't watched him enough to give an even more personal and in depth perspective but neither have you so we are even in that department. I haven't seen Tkatchuk's name brought up in this thread for awhile until you just did. This is the classic "people need to bringing up Tkatchuk's name" post, when in reality the people who keep bringing his name up are the same ones who complain that it is bringing brought up in the first place. You need to relax, man, this is just a discussion and you get way too bent out of shape. that's still an improvement, even if it's a mild one. and not bad of a pace for a dman, i'd say. i still think juolevi will help the canucks with their transition game, getting pucks from d zone to o-zone with his passes and his hockey intelligence. don't know if juolevi will be the best dman in the draft, but he's going to be one of the best i think. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aGENT Posted March 11, 2017 Share Posted March 11, 2017 People on here are fixated by stat lines to the exclusion of all other context. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
N4ZZY Posted March 11, 2017 Share Posted March 11, 2017 Just now, The 5th Line said: He lacks aggression, meaning he will need some extra muscle to control NHL sized players. Guy's like Stetcher lack size and strength but they are aggresive so they are successful. And I expressed concern about him not being known as gym rat is this concern warranted? are there reports of juolevi not working out in the gym and building body strength? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
73 Percent Posted March 11, 2017 Share Posted March 11, 2017 1 minute ago, N4ZZY said: that's still an improvement, even if it's a mild one. and not bad of a pace for a dman, i'd say. i still think juolevi will help the canucks with their transition game, getting pucks from d zone to o-zone with his passes and his hockey intelligence. don't know if juolevi will be the best dman in the draft, but he's going to be one of the best i think. This. Juolevi has the ability to make team offense better without hitting the score sheet himself. I remember one game erhoff was a +5 without a single point. Think erhoff/salo when you think Juolevi. Theyou both made our offence better. They rarely topped 40 pts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
N4ZZY Posted March 11, 2017 Share Posted March 11, 2017 Just now, The 5th Line said: He will definitely help us in the future and I am not disputing that. i'm not saying you were. i'm just saying, imo, he's going to help us down the road, even if it means that he's not the "best" dman in the draft that was taken. he's still going to be a good player. jack of all trades kind of dman, not great at any of area, but pretty average in every and all areas of his game. dunno if that's good or bad. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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