Alflives Posted November 22, 2019 Share Posted November 22, 2019 5 minutes ago, SilentSam said: I think it’s all still unknown right now? Think the Canuck’s know by now, and are just keeping the injury hush hush? Why bring him to Vancouver if it’s not serious? They have medical services in New York. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MoneypuckOverlord Posted November 22, 2019 Share Posted November 22, 2019 9 hours ago, Lancaster said: From the draft rankings, it's obvious that while OJ was battling for top defense prospect.... there were many other forwards more highly ranked than him. Almost every ranking has MT higher ranked than OJ. http://www.mynhldraft.com/2016-draft/nhl-draft-rankings/ I'm not saying I'm unhappy with OJ... just unhappy with the cost to draft him. not a viable source. this is just draft ranking. Just like in 2017. Number 5 was who? Vilardi? yea how did that work. 9 hours ago, HorvatToBaertschi said: It was just a given at the time. The Canucks had zero defensive prospects (I think Brisebois was our most enticing at the time) with top 4 potential. Benning had stated that entire year that his goal was to start acquiring dmen in the pool because of how our forward crop and goalie crop had taken strides. OJ at 5 was a "safe" pick, but MT had and still obviously has the higher potential. Vancouver drafted it's first dman in the first round since Bourdon, and many were very happy as we needed that blue chip dman. Times have changed, some see MT's success, some see OJ's potential. It's still very early but an interesting narrative nevertheless. Benning stated in 2015 and in 2017 they will like to add more to the defence but went with their traditional bpa. in 2016 they also went that route but ultimately it's not turning out as well, and as far as I know we revamped our OHL scouting team. at this point does anyone have any news? it's been 6 days since he's been in vancouver, are they going to say anything regarding his condition other then "there is no timeline." the fans deserve some answers here. even if its a "hes out for the remainder of the season" that is better then nothing. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Noble 6 Posted November 22, 2019 Share Posted November 22, 2019 Does anybody else find it weird that the news came directly from Benning? If it was an injury that Juolevi suffered in that game, wouldn't Cull or Johnson be the first to know and relay it to us? Makes me think that they either planned for this re-evaluation period in advance or that it's a significant injury and they had to report to the higher ups in Vancouver immediately. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ray_Cathode Posted November 22, 2019 Share Posted November 22, 2019 I think OJ caught fragility from Salo. I wish he’d caught Sami’s shot instead. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lancaster Posted November 22, 2019 Share Posted November 22, 2019 2 hours ago, MoneypuckOverlord said: not a viable source. this is just draft ranking. Just like in 2017. Number 5 was who? Vilardi? yea how did that work. The site is just an aggregate of multiple final draft rankings. Very viable source. But just in case you want some of the actual sources... https://www.isshockey.com/iss-hockey-releases-final-rankings-in-its-2016-iss-nhl-draft-guide/ http://avalanche.ice.nhl.com/club/page.htm?id=112319 It doesn't really matter how the player ends up, it all depends on how much resource was used to get said player relative to their value at the time. That is the point I'm getting across. An example would be the '98 draft... just because Pavel Datsyuk ended up being the best player in that draft, it still doesn't mean that Detroit should have used a 1st rounder on him instead of a 6th rounder. His value at the time was very low, thus a lower value should be used to get him. Tkachuk had a higher value than OJ... so the Canucks should have went BPA. If they didn't want to go BPA, then they should have traded down. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kanukfanatic Posted November 22, 2019 Share Posted November 22, 2019 (edited) 15 hours ago, HorvatToBaertschi said: I'm sure if you went even just to 6th overall for each of those, we would see OJ's name a handful of times. It wasn't that much of a reach. MT must've been like slightly better, and the Canucks went with the organizational need. Sure, at 5th overall it might not always be the right move. Then again, not having MT and other people like Nylander/Ehlers, Pastrnak etc... and all our other draft misses, also allowed us to be bad enough to nab EP at 5th OA and Hughes at 7th. I'll take those losses for the wins we eventually got. Because to be honest, I'd rather have Juolevi and Pettersson than Tkachuk and whoever else we would have had to pick instead of EP. On the plus note, OJ is far from a bust and will eventually become an NHL calibre dman. He will be found gold now that the entire hope of the fanbase isn't solely on his shoulders, much like it was in 2016. We have Hughes, Woo, Tryamkin, Rathbone and company to help us out. ...meh You are reaching saying OJ will be in the NHL. And yeah...I wanted MT more than OJ in that draft but I was fine with what JB picked. Turns out to be the wrong pick pretty clearly. But Petey and Hughes turned out to be correct picks. I hope OJ is born again and can actually develop and play in the NHL. But it does not look good at all as he seems injury prone and has been unable to develop because of it. Whatever...... Edited November 22, 2019 by Kanukfanatic Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MoneypuckOverlord Posted November 22, 2019 Share Posted November 22, 2019 1 hour ago, Lancaster said: The site is just an aggregate of multiple final draft rankings. Very viable source. But just in case you want some of the actual sources... https://www.isshockey.com/iss-hockey-releases-final-rankings-in-its-2016-iss-nhl-draft-guide/ http://avalanche.ice.nhl.com/club/page.htm?id=112319 It doesn't really matter how the player ends up, it all depends on how much resource was used to get said player relative to their value at the time. That is the point I'm getting across. An example would be the '98 draft... just because Pavel Datsyuk ended up being the best player in that draft, it still doesn't mean that Detroit should have used a 1st rounder on him instead of a 6th rounder. His value at the time was very low, thus a lower value should be used to get him. Tkachuk had a higher value than OJ... so the Canucks should have went BPA. If they didn't want to go BPA, then they should have traded down. yes we can also pull up the 2017 draft rankings and you can see Pettersson was not in the top 5. We drafted who we thought was bpa, same process in 2016. 2016 shot us in the nuts. Obviously as we know Amateur scouting can be tricky. I hope this will never happen to us again especially being a top 5 pick. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
coolboarder Posted November 22, 2019 Share Posted November 22, 2019 If he is out long term, has recovered by New Year's or February, it's better for OJ to be loaned to Finnish league and develop, let him get caught up when considering that he missed too many games. Let him get the feel and get him in game shape after 10 games and call him back to finish up AHL season and play in the playoffs. If it's just short-term, then there's nothing to worry about, might be a month and he can then play again in AHL as soon as he has recovered. My concern is that he missed too many games for his development. There still time for OJ to caught up but hopefully that he has enough NHL IQ/skill for him to overcome the injuries. We'll see how it goes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KyGuy123 Posted November 22, 2019 Share Posted November 22, 2019 I think we have to think long term with Juolevi and he has the potential to be an ace in the hole so to speak. Just wait until he makes the big club and plays some games with our great young talent. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WeneedLumme Posted November 22, 2019 Share Posted November 22, 2019 11 hours ago, Ray_Cathode said: I think OJ caught fragility from Salo. I wish he’d caught Sami’s shot instead. Just the thought of catching Salo's shot makes my hand hurt. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rollieo Del Fuego Posted November 22, 2019 Share Posted November 22, 2019 9 hours ago, KyGuy123 said: I think we have to think long term with Juolevi and he has the potential to be an ace in the hole so to speak. Just wait until he makes the big club and plays some games with our great young talent. While Tchapuke is costing Calgary 8-10 million a year (next contract)...we will be paying Oli on an entry level contract...for what will be Edler's smarter replacement... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aGENT Posted November 22, 2019 Share Posted November 22, 2019 (edited) 12 hours ago, Lancaster said: Tkachuk had a higher value than OJ... so the Canucks should have went BPA. If they didn't want to go BPA, then they should have traded down. See again, this is the revisionist crap that irks me. Their 'draft value' was basically at par. Numerous scouts said as much or something along the lines of 'Juolevi would be just as good of a pick there, the only reason he's 1-2 spots lower on most scouts lists is that D are inherently harder to predict/take longer to develop'. That's it. People painting the Juolevi pick as a 'reach' or 'not BPA' (at the time) are spewing revisionist horse $&!#. Edited November 22, 2019 by aGENT 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alflives Posted November 22, 2019 Share Posted November 22, 2019 6 minutes ago, aGENT said: See again, this is the revisionist crap that irks me. Their 'draft value' was basically at par. Numerous scouts said as much or something along the lines of 'Juolevi would be just as good of a pick there, the only reason he's 1-2 spots lower on most scouts lists is that D are inherently harder to predict/take longer to develop'. That's it. People painting the Juolevi pick as a 'reach' or 'not BPA' (at the time) are spewing revisionist horse $&!#. Wasn't there some suggestion that the pre draft interview with Tkapuke was why the Canucks took OJ? I think we were planning on one of OJ, Tkapuke, and Dubois. Then, CBJ took Dubois, so JB (because of the interview) took OJ. OJ is still only 21, so there is no reason why he can't physically mature more, and put the injuries behind him. 1 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Standing_Tall#37 Posted November 22, 2019 Share Posted November 22, 2019 40 minutes ago, Alflives said: Wasn't there some suggestion that the pre draft interview with Tkapuke was why the Canucks took OJ? I think we were planning on one of OJ, Tkapuke, and Dubois. Then, CBJ took Dubois, so JB (because of the interview) took OJ. OJ is still only 21, so there is no reason why he can't physically mature more, and put the injuries behind him. Shoulda taken Sergachev or macavoy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aGENT Posted November 22, 2019 Share Posted November 22, 2019 (edited) 8 minutes ago, Standing_Tall#37 said: Shoulda taken Sergachev or macavoy McAvoy was on literally nobody's radar at 5OA. THAT would have been a reach (and a good one as it turns out). Edited November 22, 2019 by aGENT 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bree2 Posted November 22, 2019 Share Posted November 22, 2019 13 minutes ago, Standing_Tall#37 said: Shoulda taken Sergachev or macavoy well we took OJ , no sense in crying over spilt milk, OJ will come back stronger and the non believers will be happily surprised . I for one still believe in OJ and wish him the best in his recovery 1 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alflives Posted November 22, 2019 Share Posted November 22, 2019 37 minutes ago, Standing_Tall#37 said: Shoulda taken Sergachev or macavoy Did we even interview those two? I don't think they were ranked up with PLD, Tkapuke, and OJ. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cuporbust Posted November 22, 2019 Share Posted November 22, 2019 57 minutes ago, Alflives said: Did we even interview those two? I don't think they were ranked up with PLD, Tkapuke, and OJ. Sergachev was the second highest ranked d man after OJ on most boards . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kanukfanatic Posted November 22, 2019 Share Posted November 22, 2019 2 hours ago, Rollieo Del Fuego said: While Tchapuke is costing Calgary 8-10 million a year (next contract)...we will be paying Oli on an entry level contract...for what will be Edler's smarter replacement... What about OJ makes you think he could ever be a #1 D like Edler? Let alone be smarter...... 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HorvatToBaertschi Posted November 22, 2019 Share Posted November 22, 2019 4 hours ago, Alflives said: Wasn't there some suggestion that the pre draft interview with Tkapuke was why the Canucks took OJ? I think we were planning on one of OJ, Tkapuke, and Dubois. Then, CBJ took Dubois, so JB (because of the interview) took OJ. OJ is still only 21, so there is no reason why he can't physically mature more, and put the injuries behind him. I heard if we had landed Dubois, he would have been traded for Subban. Anyone remember anything about this? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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