Olli Juolevi | #48 | D

[Ihatetomatoes]

24 minutes ago, 48MPHSlapShot said:

You're completely ignoring the context to suit your narrative. It's obvious to anyone with an honest bone in their body that I was referring to his +/- before he made the jump to the AHL. His time in junior, various tournaments, and his time spent in liiga. 

 

 

Also, it seems as though you're trying to imply that Juolevi has spent two full seasons in the AHL, which just isn't the case. He's only played 35 games in the AHL thus far, stretched across two seasons due to a career threatening injury last year and a soreness issue this year that could very well have been limiting his mobility. To blindly say or imply the idea that 'He's in his 2nd season and his +/- still sucks' is to completely ignore all context in order to push the narrative that his poor +/- is some sort of trend that has stretched across multiple years of his hockey playing career. 

 

You are making it sound like I'm trying to spin facts or create some narrative against Juolevi. Stating he was -12 in 18 games is just facts, I didn't realize you would think looking at his Junior numbers would have any relevance to his play in the AHL. Making excuses and creating narratives is what you're doing.  If you want to go all the way back to his junior days to prove he can have a good +/- therefore there is nothing to worry about with his play in the AHL then fine but that's creating more of a narrative then looking at his most recent play in the toughest league he has played in yet. 

 

 

[48MPHSlapShot]

Just now, Ihatetomatoes said:

You are making it sound like I'm trying to spin facts or create some narrative against Juolevi. Stating he was -12 in 18 games is just facts, I didn't realize you would think looking at his Junior numbers would have any relevance to his play in the AHL. Making excuses and creating narratives is what you're doing.  If you want to go all the way back to his junior days to prove he can have a good +/- therefore there is nothing to worry about with his play in the AHL then fine but that's creating more of a narrative then looking at his most recent play in the toughest league he has played in yet. 

 

 

Again, it's his first pro season in North America. To think that there weren't going to be speedbumps along the way and that his transition was going to be seamless would be foolish, especially considering his injury woes. 

 

The point is that his poor +/- in the AHL is not a statistical trend that has carried over from his play in various other leagues and tournaments. His AHL +/- is the outlier. It's the anomaly, not the norm, and there's no reason to believe, given his history, that he can't improve upon it with time. 

[Ihatetomatoes]

44 minutes ago, 48MPHSlapShot said:

Again, it's his first pro season in North America. To think that there weren't going to be speedbumps along the way and that his transition was going to be seamless would be foolish, especially considering his injury woes. 

 

The point is that his poor +/- in the AHL is not a statistical trend that has carried over from his play in various other leagues and tournaments. His AHL +/- is the outlier. It's the anomaly, not the norm, and there's no reason to believe, given his history, that he can't improve upon it with time. 

Plenty of defenseman on the same team have made the transition to the AHL from minors without nearly the speed bump that Juolevi has had. It's reasonable to expect some adjusting time but compare him to other guys like Rafferty or Teves or Chatfield. All of those guys made the transition to pro without even the experience of a professional season like Juolevi and haven't put up worry some +/- numbers, not sure why Juolevi gets the excuses. 

 

As for his junior numbers there are about a million guys who put up amazing numbers in Junior but don't cut it when making the transition to pro. I don't see how saying he put up great numbers in Junior means that's there no reason to believe that that's his normal. 

 

[48MPHSlapShot]

1 minute ago, Ihatetomatoes said:

Plenty of defenseman on the same team have made the transition to the AHL from minors without nearly the speed bump that Juolevi has had. It's reasonable to expect some adjusting time but compare him to other guys like Rafferty or Teves or Chatfield. All of those guys made the transition to pro without even the experience of a professional season like Juolevi and haven't put up worry some +/- numbers, not sure why Juolevi gets the excuses. 

 

As for his junior numbers there are about a million guys who put up amazing numbers in Junior but don't cut it when making the transition to pro. I don't see how saying he put up great numbers in Junior means that's there no reason to believe that that's his normal. 

 

He put up good numbers in liiga as well, and finished their playoffs as their top Dman. And to believe that every single players development curve is exactly the same is especially foolish. Some guys make the transition seamlessly. Most don't. You bring up Rafferty, Teves and Chatfield, but Teves and Chatfield are players virtually devoid of offense, and Rafferty is 24 years old, so the situations really aren't comparable. 

[Ihatetomatoes]

9 minutes ago, 48MPHSlapShot said:

He put up good numbers in liiga as well, and finished their playoffs as their top Dman. And to believe that every single players development curve is exactly the same is especially foolish. Some guys make the transition seamlessly. Most don't. You bring up Rafferty, Teves and Chatfield, but Teves and Chatfield are players virtually devoid of offense, and Rafferty is 24 years old, so the situations really aren't comparable. 

 

What does them being devoid of offense have to do with the ability to defend and be a positive +/- player? 

 

It sounds like a whole lot of excuses and just burying your head in the sand if you believe there is no reason to be worried about Juolevi's ability to defend after posting a -21 in 35 AHL games. 

 

 

[48MPHSlapShot]

Just now, Ihatetomatoes said:

What does them being devoid of offense have to do with the ability to defend and be a positive +/- player? 

A lot, actually. They play different games, hence putting emphasis on particular aspects of their games. 

 

Just now, Ihatetomatoes said:

It sounds like a whole lot of excuses and just burying your head in the sand if you believe there is no reason to be worried about Juolevi's ability to defend after posting a -21 in 35 AHL games. 

 

I'm using actual evidence to point out why there's reason to believe Juolevi's poor +/- in the AHL so far isn't reason enough to completely write the prospect off. The fact that he's still new to the pro game in NA, the fact that his poor +/- isn't indicative of the way he's been trending since before he was drafted, and the fact that he's been dealing with terrible injury problems.  All you're doing is pointing to the +/- and saying "SEE!! SEE! THAT'S WHY HE SUCKS AND I'M RIGHT AND YOU'RE WRONG". You're completely ignoring all context. 

 

 

[Elias Pettersson]

48 minutes ago, Ihatetomatoes said:

Plenty of defenseman on the same team have made the transition to the AHL from minors without nearly the speed bump that Juolevi has had. It's reasonable to expect some adjusting time but compare him to other guys like Rafferty or Teves or Chatfield. All of those guys made the transition to pro without even the experience of a professional season like Juolevi and haven't put up worry some +/- numbers, not sure why Juolevi gets the excuses. 

 

As for his junior numbers there are about a million guys who put up amazing numbers in Junior but don't cut it when making the transition to pro. I don't see how saying he put up great numbers in Junior means that's there no reason to believe that that's his normal. 

 

Chatfield has been a minus player his whole pro career.  Teves and Rafferty are 24 years old.  Not even comparable to Juolevi who’s only 21. 

[Tracksuit]

Look at the five guys taken right after OJ 

not sure how anyone can defend this pick. It was a bad pick he wasn’t the bpa then. 

OJ 36 AHL games 21 points and often injured. 

worst stats of any of the picks taken in the top ten 2016 by MILES. And the Only one to have zero nhl games. 

Would be in the bottom 3 of the top 15 taken in 2016. 

I guess some need to Keep those rose glasses on. (And now for the injury excuses) 

 

Rafferty has bumped OJ further down. 

 

 

Edited December 11, 2019 by Tracksuit

[ruilin96]

13 hours ago, Tracksuit said:

Look at the five guys taken right after OJ 

not sure how anyone can defend this pick. It was a bad pick he wasn’t the bpa then. 

OJ 36 AHL games 21 points and often injured. 

worst stats of any of the picks taken in the top ten 2016 by MILES. And the Only one to have zero nhl games. 

Would be in the bottom 3 of the top 15 taken in 2016. 

I guess some need to Keep those rose glasses on. 

 

Rafferty has bumped OJ further down. 

 

 

Benning used the exact same thought process when he drafted both Juolevi and Pettersson. Don't forget Juolevi was the best defenseman on both WJC gold-medal team and London Knights Memorial Cup team. His strength was his hockey sense and his smooth vanilla game that he plays. Benning and the scouting staff obviously thought highly of him and think he has that next level to unleash (which he still could). However, injuries had derailed his development and the players picked after him blossomed. It is like that sometimes. JB used the same school of thought when he drafted Pettersson (which at the time, also not the concensus pick at 5), he drafted him because of EP's "Elite hockey sense" and the ability to become a offensively gifted #1 line center. That had worked out for him thus far. it is the risked he takes and he was rewarded big time once and he also made himself like a fool the other.

 

Juolevi is far from a complete bust, injuries derailed him and he still have good chances to become a top-4 D-man at the NHL level. Also, I hope you are aware that Rafferty is 3 years older than Juolevi. He has had way more time to fine-tune his game and right now all you can say is 24-year-old-Rafferty is outplaying 21-year-old-Juolevi. Where would Juolevi be when he is 24? We simply don't know at this point.

 

Another encouraging stat we can look at for Olli was at the age of 19 he played in the SM-Liiga, putting up 19 points in 38 games as a solid 2-way defenseman playing against men for the first time in his career. John Klingberg at the age of 20 played in the same league and only has 3 points in 20 games. Albeit, Klingberg is drafted much later and took him longer time to adjust his game before he makes it to the NHL.

 

In hindsight, Canucks should of gone with another player, however, in hindsight NJD/Flyers would of each gone home with either Pettersson or Makar in 2017. Also in hindsight, one of Montreal, Ottawa, Arizona and Detroit could of gone home with Quinn Hughes in 2018.

 

I like the courage this management group has in believing in their own scouts and their own analysis when it comes to taking players instead of just picking base on the TSN board. So far, Boeser, Pettersson and Hughes have all been good picks. If in the span of 4 drafts from 2015-2018, we hit home-runs on 3 of the 4 picks and all 3 of those players look to be corner stone of the team, I will live with the one mistake this managment group and scouting staffs make.

Edited December 11, 2019 by ruilin96

[Elias Pettersson]

1 hour ago, Tracksuit said:

Look at the five guys taken right after OJ 

not sure how anyone can defend this pick. It was a bad pick he wasn’t the bpa then. 

OJ 36 AHL games 21 points and often injured. 

worst stats of any of the picks taken in the top ten 2016 by MILES. And the Only one to have zero nhl games. 

Would be in the bottom 3 of the top 15 taken in 2016. 

I guess some need to Keep those rose glasses on. (And now for the injury excuses) 

 

Rafferty has bumped OJ further down. 

 

 

What about the guy taken before him at #4?  He’s kind of a flop too right?  At least OJ has injury issues.  What’s Pool Party’s excuse?

[MoneypuckOverlord]

On 12/10/2019 at 10:18 AM, SilentSam said:

Follow this fella , he posts a lot of vids on Canuck prospects 

 

 

 

 

I know Dan Gee cherry picked some clips and I appreciate him for that, but he looks solid in the videos.  Skating is a tiny bit chopy which is fine, since Tanev is not a great skater himself but is able to manage, his shooting and passing is good, the players seem to be able to receive this passes.  positioning I think looks fine, he looks good.

[bluesy_shoes]

I'd say he looks good when he's got time and space with the puck, and he makes good plays out of the zone if he's got time to pick his head up. Very accurate passer, he knows how to feather a puck. I'd say he needs to play a lot more hockey at the AHL level. He doesn't have an NHL pace to his game yet, and he doesn't play with much jump. I don't like how he holds the puck in the offensive zone while he contemplates shot or pass. I'd prefer to see him moving his feet and using skating with the puck as a third option, and playing with more jump after he moves the puck. He also looks a little lost in the defensive system, although he seems to react well given where he is on any given play. He can see the ice well and can find his teammates, but It just doesn't look like he knows where his teammates are supposed to be before he finds them, and where he should already be in relation. He won't be able to play at an NHL pace without growing his systems awareness and urgency.

[Kanukfanatic]

7 hours ago, Tracksuit said:

Look at the five guys taken right after OJ 

not sure how anyone can defend this pick. It was a bad pick he wasn’t the bpa then. 

OJ 36 AHL games 21 points and often injured. 

worst stats of any of the picks taken in the top ten 2016 by MILES. And the Only one to have zero nhl games. 

Would be in the bottom 3 of the top 15 taken in 2016. 

I guess some need to Keep those rose glasses on. (And now for the injury excuses) 

 

Rafferty has bumped OJ further down. 

 

 

You thinking Rafferty in any way is connected to OJ as a prospect and where he sits as a prospect is hilarious.

 

Rafferty is a 24 year old journeyman defender while OJ is still only 21 years old with plenty of upside. Rafferty in no way affects where OJ plays.

[DrJockitch]

1 hour ago, Kanukfanatic said:

You thinking Rafferty in any way is connected to OJ as a prospect and where he sits as a prospect is hilarious.

 

Rafferty is a 24 year old journeyman defender while OJ is still only 21 years old with plenty of upside. Rafferty in no way affects where OJ plays.

Not sure you are using Journeyman correctly. 
He is a rookie playing his first professional season.

he was an undrafted signing yes but has been very good for Utica. 
Good signing by JB and encouraging that he could have an NHL future. 

[Tracksuit]

8 hours ago, Elias Pettersson said:

What about the guy taken before him at #4?  He’s kind of a flop too right?  At least OJ has injury issues.  What’s Pool Party’s excuse?

Yeah glad you agree ojs a flop. 

Pool party played in the nhl didn’t he.

 

[Elias Pettersson]

1 hour ago, Tracksuit said:

Yeah glad you agree ojs a flop. 

Pool party played in the nhl didn’t he.

 

Pool Party is in Europe right now and may never come back.  OJ is in the AHL and can be called up at any time to the big show.  Big difference.  

[dpn1]

4 hours ago, Kanukfanatic said:

You thinking Rafferty in any way is connected to OJ as a prospect and where he sits as a prospect is hilarious.

 

Rafferty is a 24 year old journeyman defender while OJ is still only 21 years old with plenty of upside. Rafferty in no way affects where OJ plays.

Also, Raferty is a right dman and OJ is a Left dman.  They are more likely a defensive pairing than competing for the same spot.

[Dazzle]

2 hours ago, Tracksuit said:

Yeah glad you agree ojs a flop. 

Pool party played in the nhl didn’t he.

 

Clownsuit might be a suitable name for yourself.

[Ur a Towel]

3 hours ago, Tracksuit said:

Yeah glad you agree ojs a flop. 

Pool party played in the nhl didn’t he.

 

It's not a sprint to see who makes the NHL first. Pool party is already out of the league. He was rushed in and showed that he didn't belong in the NHL.
If not for injuries, Juolevi would've likely been a full time player with us by now.
Calling a player a bust or a flop not even 4 years after he's drafted just because injuries have stopped him from playing is comical. 
He still very well could be a great Dman for us, or he could also have injuries derail his career further. That doesn't make him a flop or a bust, just unlucky.
 

[VegasCanuck]

7 hours ago, Tracksuit said:

Yeah glad you agree ojs a flop. 

Pool party played in the nhl didn’t he.

 

Your post is completely nonsensical. One guy has injury issues, one guy doesn't. One guy plays defense (traditionally takes longer to be ready), one guy is a winger.

 

By your analogy, Apples and Oranges should taste the same because they are both fruit. Can you come up with something a little more detailed on why you think a guy, who when healthy, is extremely effective at the AHL level, would be a flop?

 

There's no guarantee that OJ ever makes it, he has all the skill and capability necessary, but he's had some bad luck with injuries. He gets healthy and 2 or 3 months of solid playing time behind him, he's essentially NHL ready.