Jump to content
The Official Site of the Vancouver Canucks
Canucks Community

2017 NHL Draft - Chicago, Illinois June 23-24 2017


hyper00

Recommended Posts

1 hour ago, messier's_elbow said:

4th is fine. We would get Vilardi or Mittelstadt. I'm worried about dropping to 5th....

Personally I think I'd lean Liljegren at 5.  I'd like a Centre but if the top ones are gone it'd sure be nice to have a defence that looks like it could handle some of those boys over in AHLberta.  I'm by no means super knowledgable about prospects in this draft though.... Cody Glass looks intriguing?  

Link to comment
Share on other sites

2 hours ago, Horvat is a Boss said:

 

I would argue that defensemen are a lot more capable mentally in the NHL as well as physically. These are the guys that deal with Kane + Panarin, McDavid, Crosby, Malkin, Gaudreau, Kuznetsov, etc. on a nightly basis. Those guys are probably all on a different level than Mittlestadt.

In the bolded, are they?  At the same age, they we're probably considered very similar in terms of offensive skill set, there is a reason why these players didn't go top 5 in there draft years.  Add in Pastrnak, Granlund, Arvidsson, Nylander,  These players all seemed to have been able to translate into the NHL, i'd say at the same age Mittlestadt is right up there with those players skill sets,  obviously he would still need to progress like the other players did.

 

  • Upvote 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, J-Dizzle said:

Personally I think I'd lean Liljegren at 5.  I'd like a Centre but if the top ones are gone it'd sure be nice to have a defence that looks like it could handle some of those boys over in AHLberta.  I'm by no means super knowledgable about prospects in this draft though.... Cody Glass looks intriguing?  

Glass looks good. Some mocks have him in the top 5. He's a good 2 way player with good stats. He's 6'2. If we pick 5th he might be someone to take a look at. Liljgren won't be able to handle Mcdavid, or the other big players in the league. I'd rather take Foote. You have to play Mcdavid hard to be effective. Stick checking won't cut it. 

  • Upvote 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

56 minutes ago, HomeBrew said:

Other than the powerplay vs 5v5 argument you keep bringing up over and over and over... what are your actual hesitations with Mittelstadt? 

 

btw some people do have Mittelstadt ranked in the top 3 - thus being a top 3 level talent? 

 

I don't like the fact that he essentially "lost" a chunk of development time in his draft year to go back to high school. I also think he tries to play the 1 on 1's against the defense with too much razzle dazzle that won't work to the same effect, if at all, in the NHL. When he's playing against people that can keep up with his change of pace and his edgework and, most importantly, read what he's going to do offensively, I think it will be tough for him. He will still likely find a useful niche on the powerplay, but I don't think that's good enough for us. 

 

In the highlights above, most of the plays can be chalked up to terrible defense, poor quality of competition or just the overall strength of team U.S.A. (namely Brown, who centered his line). He does have good instincts and creativity, I just don't think he'll be able to translate as effectively to the NHL, therefore not becoming the player some people expected. Of course I could be wrong and he could be the best player from this draft, but I personally don't see that as being very likely. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

2 minutes ago, messier's_elbow said:

Glass looks good. Some mocks have him in the top 5. He's a good 2 way player with good stats. He's 6'2. If we pick 5th he might be someone to take a look at. Liljgren won't be able to handle Mcdavid, or the other big players in the league. I'd rather take Foote. You have to play Mcdavid hard to be effective. Stick checking won't cut it. 

Again, I'm not super knowledgable about this draft class.  I saw Foote play in the Canada vs. Russia series (Prince George game).  He looked like a big dude who was fairly mobile.  The fact that Liljegren has fallen and I'm guessing a big part of that is due to recovering from Mono makes me think he could be a steal sitting at number five.... 

One of Juolevi, Stetcher, Hutton, Tryamkin and Liljegren have gotta turn into a solid number 1 guy.  

Link to comment
Share on other sites

With a bit of Shark luck in the few weeks to come, we could have 2 picks in the early-mid 20s per ratings upon whom we should jump if available at 31/33... Thoughts?

  • Klim Kostin
  • Kole Lind
  • Nick Suzuki
  • Jaret Anderson-Dolan
  • Urho Vaakanainen
Link to comment
Share on other sites

3 minutes ago, J-Dizzle said:

Again, I'm not super knowledgable about this draft class.  I saw Foote play in the Canada vs. Russia series (Prince George game).  He looked like a big dude who was fairly mobile.  The fact that Liljegren has fallen and I'm guessing a big part of that is due to recovering from Mono makes me think he could be a steal sitting at number five.... 

One of Juolevi, Stetcher, Hutton, Tryamkin and Liljegren have gotta turn into a solid number 1 guy.  

Have you seen Liljegren play? Why are you so high on him? He's got skill that's not a debate but from what I've seen he needs a lot of work defensively.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

3 minutes ago, messier's_elbow said:

Have you seen Liljegren play? Why are you so high on him? He's got skill that's not a debate but from what I've seen he needs a lot of work defensively.

I haven't seen him play and I wouldn't necessarily say that I'm high on him.  I'm looking at it purely from the perspective of assuming his fall was a result of mono.  As I've said a few times, I'm not that knowledgable about this draft class.  

 

Edit:  I'd much prefer a centre out of this draft but if we end up at 5.......

Edited by J-Dizzle
Link to comment
Share on other sites

5 minutes ago, J-Dizzle said:

I haven't seen him play and I wouldn't necessarily say that I'm high on him.  I'm looking at it purely from the perspective of assuming his fall was a result of mono.  As I've said a few times, I'm not that knowledgable about this draft class.  

 

Edit:  I'd much prefer a centre out of this draft but if we end up at 5.......

Yeah at #5 I could maybe see it. I honestly think Foote would be a better option though. I like defenceman that can play defence. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

41 minutes ago, Horvat is a Boss said:

 

I don't like the fact that he essentially "lost" a chunk of development time in his draft year to go back to high school. I also think he tries to play the 1 on 1's against the defense with too much razzle dazzle that won't work to the same effect, if at all, in the NHL. When he's playing against people that can keep up with his change of pace and his edgework and, most importantly, read what he's going to do offensively, I think it will be tough for him. He will still likely find a useful niche on the powerplay, but I don't think that's good enough for us. 

 

In the highlights above, most of the plays can be chalked up to terrible defense, poor quality of competition or just the overall strength of team U.S.A. (namely Brown, who centered his line). He does have good instincts and creativity, I just don't think he'll be able to translate as effectively to the NHL, therefore not becoming the player some people expected. Of course I could be wrong and he could be the best player from this draft, but I personally don't see that as being very likely. 

The highschool thing is definitely over blown given the fact that he game back to the USHL and continued to lead the league, but it worth noting for sure that it leaves more questions than answers them. Further, some of those clips of "poor quality of competition" are actually highly touted prospects such as some of the more impressive work done in the U18. I do take your point though about whether this style of play will translate. The question then becomes what makes the "razzle dazzle" of a player like William Nylander translate seemlessly, but not the "razzle dazzle" of say Hunter Shinkaruk? Where do you see those differences?

 

PS I should add that I am not 100% sold on Mittelstadt either as a top 3-5 pick, but his skill set does intrigue me as it is exactly what we could use on this team - if it did actually translate. It should also be noted that he is not just a goal scorer, but is very good at being a play maker and pushing the pace with his speed game.

  • Upvote 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

10 hours ago, Scruffy05 said:

Is there any data or analysis for comparative future success of people who are either old for their draft class (Patrick) or young (Vilardi)?

I think just last years draft with Austin Matthews being older for his draft class. I think it was something like if he was born 3 days earlier he'd have been in the McDavid and Eichel draft. Can't remember a guy being younger in a draft off the top of my head.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

31 minutes ago, HomeBrew said:

The highschool thing is definitely over blown given the fact that he game back to the USHL and continued to lead the league, but it worth noting for sure that it leaves more questions than answers them. Further, some of those clips of "poor quality of competition" are actually highly touted prospects such as some of the more impressive work done in the U18. I do take your point though about whether this style of play will translate. The question then becomes what makes the "razzle dazzle" of a player like William Nylander translate seemlessly, but not the "razzle dazzle" of say Hunter Shinkaruk? Where do you see those differences?

 

PS I should add that I am not 100% sold on Mittelstadt either as a top 3-5 pick, but his skill set does intrigue me as it is exactly what we could use on this team - if it did actually translate. It should also be noted that he is not just a goal scorer, but is very good at being a play maker and pushing the pace with his speed game.

skating.  IQ too

Link to comment
Share on other sites

7 minutes ago, wshdrvvn said:

skating.  IQ too

Illuminating... <_<

 

Shinkaruk is known a "speedy winger" by the way and just stating "IQ" doesn't really bring anything to the discussion. But if your "thoughts" are directed towards Mittelstadt, and I am just reading into your word(s), he is known to have both of those components. Are you trying to say that you think Mittelstadt will transition like Nylander? 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Just now, HomeBrew said:

Illuminating... <_<

 

Shinkaruk is known a "speedy winger" by the way and just stating "IQ" doesn't really bring anything to the discussion. But if your "thoughts" are directed towards Mittelstadt, and I am just reading into your word(s), he is known to have both of those components. Are you trying to say that you think Mittelstadt will transition like Nylander? 

 those are the two areas you see the differences between shinkaruk and nylander.  i highlighted the question and answered it

Link to comment
Share on other sites

59 minutes ago, HomeBrew said:

Illuminating... <_<

 

Shinkaruk is known a "speedy winger" by the way and just stating "IQ" doesn't really bring anything to the discussion. But if your "thoughts" are directed towards Mittelstadt, and I am just reading into your word(s), he is known to have both of those components. Are you trying to say that you think Mittelstadt will transition like Nylander? 

Both have the hands to dangle, but hockey IQ is really important in comparing players

 

Nylander has vision to read plays which allows him to get in the open spots and find the open players.  This allows Nylander to slow the game down, Shinkaruk plays the game at a go,go,go pace, he's also shoot first type player.    On a 2 on 1,  Shinkaruk 8/10 times is going to shoot regardless of the situation.  Where Nylander will be able to evaluate the situation and make a calculated decision.  

Link to comment
Share on other sites

22 minutes ago, Pepe Silvia said:

Seems about right. If we land top 2 it's a no brainer. If we pick 3-5 I'd be happy with any of these three.

I think these are pretty safe bets for the best 5 players available. The four centers I think are the best bets to become what we need. Mittelstadt might be a little boom or bust for some peoples liking, but at this point I'd rather take the chance on someone that has the potential to become an elite offensive center over someone that, while maybe a safer bet, probably wouldn't have as much offensive potential.

 

 However, if we end up with 5th overall, and all four centers are already taken, I'd go with Liljegren. He'd hopefully fill another need (PP QB), and free us up to take the best center available next year, as next years draft is projected to be better, and we'll likely have another high pick. 

Edited by 48MPHSlapShot
Link to comment
Share on other sites

3 hours ago, ForsbergTheGreat said:

In the bolded, are they?  At the same age, they we're probably considered very similar in terms of offensive skill set, there is a reason why these players didn't go top 5 in there draft years.  Add in Pastrnak, Granlund, Arvidsson, Nylander,  These players all seemed to have been able to translate into the NHL, i'd say at the same age Mittlestadt is right up there with those players skill sets,  obviously he would still need to progress like the other players did.

 

 

I think Granlund and Arvidsson play with a tenacity that can't be taught. That's the main thing that got them into the league. I think those two are also a lot grittier along the boards, in front of the net, etc. They don't rely on only their skill and smarts, they go out and work hard on both sides of the puck every shift. They have that motor that just keeps going.

 

I would say Nylander's hockey IQ is on a different level than most other players in the NHL, let alone Mittlestadt. If he had a dynamic physical trait, like explosive speed, strength to protect the puck, etc. he would probably be one of the very best players in the league. I don't think there's anyone in this draft that thinks the game like he does. 

 

I haven't watched Pastrnak enough to know if he is similar to Mittlestadt, but I'll take your word for it. I also only saw him play once at the WJC in his draft year. 

 

I'm just not 100% sure if he'll be able to think the game as far ahead at the next level as he is right now. I think he relies on his nice toedrags to create time and space for himself a bit too much, and that likely won't work as well at the next level. With the players I mentioned (Panarin, Gaudreau and Kuznetsov) I think it was mainly either the Russian factor or an extreme lack of size that caused them to drop. Mittlestadt won't be bolting to Russia and he has a pretty good frame, I just don't think his IQ has that same "wow" factor that will allow him to play that way in the NHL. 

 

I'm no scout and could very well be wrong, but that's just my take. 

 

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Please sign in to comment

You will be able to leave a comment after signing in



Sign In Now
  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    • No registered users viewing this page.
×
×
  • Create New...