Noble 6 Posted April 18, 2017 Share Posted April 18, 2017 I think I would move Hieskanen above Liljegren for defensive prospects based on what I've been hearing. I thought Liljegren would easily be the best defenseman of the draft with his skating and offensive awareness, but it's looking like something's not clicking. He still could be a good PP QB, but I think it's an already risky pick is quite a bit riskier now. Hieskanen sounds like he's been on a great developmental curve and should only continue to get better. I really like the fact that he's a pretty big piece of the defense of an elite men's team. He had question marks about his offense before this tournament and now is putting up big numbers. I hadn't even heard his name until about a month or two ago, but this kid is tracking very well. Who do you guys want with our 2nd rounder this year? I think Oettinger would be a very good pickup for us at 33, but Thomas looks like a solid player. We obviously don't know if someone will fall, but if someone like Yammamoto or Kostin is there they would for sure get consideration as well. I've also seen Anderson-Dolan play live and he looks like he could be a solid but not outstanding pickup. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blömqvist Posted April 19, 2017 Share Posted April 19, 2017 3 hours ago, Shcott said: I don't feel like he would bolt. Doesn't he have to spend 4 years in the NCAA to get to free agency? The only first rounder I can think of that bolted was Blake Wheeler. I think getting into the NHL and making the money in a year or twos time would be pretty enticing Exactly. It's rare for high-profile 1st round picks to not sign with the team that drafted them. Maybe it's all the hype that surrounds them and the allure of making money and being a star within a few short years. Even then, he can play alongside fellow Minnesotan Brock Boeser and possibly even Adam Gaudette to create an All-American line for us. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blömqvist Posted April 19, 2017 Share Posted April 19, 2017 (edited) 5 hours ago, funkyfresh said: Liljegren has stagnated this year and needs work defensively. He doesn't understand that sometimes it's okay if you aren't the one creating offense. Still, can't be too harsh on him because of the mono. Makar reminds me of Allen Iverson in terms of explosiveness, agility and just sheer confidence with the puck (or ball in this case); you know he's going to make something good happen out there. The problem is his size and if he'll be able to defend at the NHL level. Also, there aren't many guys that play like Makar and Liljegren and succeed in the NHL. I rather take the guy who is already good defensively, has decent size, and can produce offense, even if it is not as much as the other two. I wouldn't even be upset if Canucks drafted him instead of a center as he is in the same group as those guys, for me. He plays the right side in Liiga so him and Juolevi could be a solid pairing in the future. My ranking of the top dman right now: Miro Hieskanen Jusso Valimaki Cale Makar Timothy Liljegren 5 hours ago, Warhippy said: You don't even have cal foote in there? This year's crop of defensemen reminds me of last year's. There's the undisputed potential #1D of the draft in Chychrun last year who didn't have a good developmental year and he fell enough for other defensemen to make a case. Fabbro looked real good last year playing in the BCHL and looked better than Chychrun did in the U18s. Juolevi and Sergachev both had really good years as well, with Juolevi putting up an unreal performance in the WJC and in the Memorial Cup. At the end of the day, it's all very subjective. Fast forward to now, and the undisputed potential #1D of this draft Liljegren didn't have a good year at all. His body of work and skillset keep him as one of the top defensemen for me. Makar looks real good in the AJHL and other players like Heiskanen and Valimaki had good seasons in their respective leagues. Foote had a very good season with the Rockets and is shutting down heavy offenses during the playoffs. I personally wouldn't pick a defenseman with our 1st rounder this year as there are some high-offense centreman available when we pick which we so badly need. That said, with his most recent play and offensive production I would rate Heiskanen in the same tier as Liljegren and have Makar behind them, and Makar slightly ahead of Foote and Valimaki. Valimaki is a very good offensive weapon who can quarterback the powerplay and has good size and skating; Foote is a big two-way defenseman who can move the puck and shutdown the opposition. Both have good upside, although I prefer Foote more because of his play in the playoffs and the fact that he plays for the Kelowna Rockets so you know he's in good hands developmental-wise. Again, all very subjective. My rankings for defensemen: 1. Liljegren 1. Heiskanen 3. Makar 4. Foote 4. Valimaki Edited April 19, 2017 by Blömqvist 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stawns Posted April 19, 2017 Share Posted April 19, 2017 39 minutes ago, Blömqvist said: This year's crop of defensemen reminds me of last year's. There's the undisputed potential #1D of the draft in Chychrun last year who didn't have a good developmental year and he fell enough for other defensemen to make a case. Fabbro looked real good last year playing in the BCHL and looked better than Chychrun did in the U18s. Juolevi and Sergachev both had really good years as well, with Juolevi putting up an unreal performance in the WJC and in the Memorial Cup. At the end of the day, it's all very subjective. Fast forward to now, and the undisputed potential #1D of this draft Liljegren didn't have a good year at all. His body of work and skillset keep him as one of the top defensemen for me. Makar looks real good in the AJHL and other players like Heiskanen and Valimaki had good seasons in their respective leagues. Foote had a very good season with the Rockets and is shutting down heavy offenses during the playoffs. I personally wouldn't pick a defenseman with our 1st rounder this year as there are some high-offense centreman available when we pick which we so badly need. That said, with his most recent play and offensive production I would rate Heiskanen in the same tier as Liljegren and have Makar behind them, and Makar slightly ahead of Foote and Valimaki. Valimaki is a very good offensive weapon who can quarterback the powerplay and has good size and skating; Foote is a big two-way defenseman who can move the puck and shutdown the opposition. Both have good upside, although I prefer Foote more because of his play in the playoffs and the fact that he plays for the Kelowna Rockets so you know he's in good hands developmental-wise. Again, all very subjective. My rankings for defensemen: 1. Liljegren 1. Heiskanen 3. Makar 4. Foote 4. Valimaki Do people not understand what mono does to your body? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HKSR Posted April 19, 2017 Share Posted April 19, 2017 4 hours ago, ForsbergTheGreat said: 2012 LA kings didn't have anyone in the top 15. Neither did the 2014 Kings team. Both years Kopitar finished 17th in the league with 76 and 70 points, In fact Kopitar has only surpassed 80 points once in his career. Similar point projections to where I think Vilardi would end up. The 2015 Hawks also didn't have anyone in the top 15 in scoring. Kane was 29th that year (yes he did get injured) Outside of Hischier and Patrick, I don't see any of the other players being able to crack top 15 any time soon. None of them are even close to the skill sets of, Laine, Scheifele, Matthews, Puljujarvi, Eichel, McDavid, Draisaitl, Tarasenko, Seguin, Benn, Hall, Kucherov, Marner, Strome. Drouin, Mackinnon, Panarin, Ehlers, Nylander. That top 15 list is going to be very hard to crack, and that's ignoring the current Crosby, Backstrom, Karlsson, Kane, Ovechkin, and Malkin's. I'd say we wait till next year to get that skill guy and do everything we can to get Andrei Svechnikov, he's going to be the next closest bet. 2012 Top Scoring Leaders: http://www.hockey-reference.com/leagues/NHL_2012_leaders.html -- Kopitar at #15 2014 Top Scoring Leaders: http://www.hockey-reference.com/leagues/NHL_2014_leaders.html -- Kopitar at #16 (close enough lol) Patrick Kane is a Top 10 player when healthy. If we wait until next year, we may not finish as low as this year. If anything, we should be doing whatever we can to land Hischier or Patrick. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
48MPHSlapShot Posted April 19, 2017 Share Posted April 19, 2017 Side note: Kopitar wasn't a top 5, or even a top 10 pick. Just saying that where a player is drafted and what they're projected to be going into the draft isn't always how they turn out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flickyoursedin Posted April 19, 2017 Share Posted April 19, 2017 Don't count out our San Jose Canucks just yet ;)! Look at that fight! Up 6-0 in the 2nd period! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Odd. Posted April 19, 2017 Share Posted April 19, 2017 Vesalainen currently dominating the U18's. I guess you can expect that when he's been playing grown men in the SHL since he was 16 years old. U18's too easy for him. I was hoping he somehow falls to us and we snatch him with our second rounder but I doubt he'll be available there now that he's rising his stock. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flickyoursedin Posted April 19, 2017 Share Posted April 19, 2017 7 hours ago, funkyfresh said: Liljegren has stagnated this year and needs work defensively. He doesn't understand that sometimes it's okay if you aren't the one creating offense. Still, can't be too harsh on him because of the mono. Makar reminds me of Allen Iverson in terms of explosiveness, agility and just sheer confidence with the puck (or ball in this case); you know he's going to make something good happen out there. The problem is his size and if he'll be able to defend at the NHL level. Also, there aren't many guys that play like Makar and Liljegren and succeed in the NHL. I rather take the guy who is already good defensively, has decent size, and can produce offense, even if it is not as much as the other two. I wouldn't even be upset if Canucks drafted him instead of a center as he is in the same group as those guys, for me. He plays the right side in Liiga so him and Juolevi could be a solid pairing in the future. My ranking of the top dman right now: Miro Hieskanen Jusso Valimaki Cale Makar Timothy Liljegren I'm just happy to see somebody not putting Foote at the top of their list. People are overrating him because of his name. He's not a top ten pick and their are at least 3 dmen that should be picked ahead of him. My list for top 5 dmen goes Liljigren, Makar, Valimaki, Foote, and Hieskanen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ForsbergTheGreat Posted April 19, 2017 Share Posted April 19, 2017 1 hour ago, HKSR said: 2012 Top Scoring Leaders: http://www.hockey-reference.com/leagues/NHL_2012_leaders.html -- Kopitar at #15 2014 Top Scoring Leaders: http://www.hockey-reference.com/leagues/NHL_2014_leaders.html -- Kopitar at #16 (close enough lol) Patrick Kane is a Top 10 player when healthy. If we wait until next year, we may not finish as low as this year. If anything, we should be doing whatever we can to land Hischier or Patrick. reference considered ties and doesn't factor in ppg.. He's 17th in both years. Better look at NHL.com 2012 - http://www.nhl.com/stats/player?aggregate=0&gameType=2&report=skatersummary&pos=S&reportType=season&seasonFrom=20112012&seasonTo=20112012&filter=gamesPlayed,gte,1&sort=points,goals,gamesPlayed 2014 - http://www.nhl.com/stats/player?aggregate=0&gameType=2&report=skatersummary&pos=S&reportType=season&seasonFrom=20132014&seasonTo=20132014&filter=gamesPlayed,gte,1&sort=points,goals,gamesPlayed Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
messier's_elbow Posted April 19, 2017 Share Posted April 19, 2017 6 hours ago, N4ZZY said: yeah, but is he going to pull a Vessey? lmao. Canuck Nation was really nervous last year if Brock would sign or bolt for the Wild. That's always the risk with collegiate players, isn't it? Would Middlestadt sign with the Canucks, or would he go and expose that NCAA loophole and sign with the Wild when he can? Is this kid a character kid that oozes uber offensive talent? If Patrick, Hischier and Vilardi are gone, then yes I'd take the risk on this guy and draft him 4th. Chances are he only plays a year or two then goes pro. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HKSR Posted April 19, 2017 Share Posted April 19, 2017 (edited) 48 minutes ago, ForsbergTheGreat said: reference considered ties and doesn't factor in ppg.. He's 17th in both years. Better look at NHL.com 2012 - http://www.nhl.com/stats/player?aggregate=0&gameType=2&report=skatersummary&pos=S&reportType=season&seasonFrom=20112012&seasonTo=20112012&filter=gamesPlayed,gte,1&sort=points,goals,gamesPlayed 2014 - http://www.nhl.com/stats/player?aggregate=0&gameType=2&report=skatersummary&pos=S&reportType=season&seasonFrom=20132014&seasonTo=20132014&filter=gamesPlayed,gte,1&sort=points,goals,gamesPlayed Ok buddy, you, me, and everyone else on this forum knows what I'm getting at. #15 or #17, doesn't matter, especially when the player(s) are tied in scoring. I honestly sense some autism spectrum in you. Anyways, like I said, elite high-end skill needed. We're unlikely to finish 2nd from the bottom again next year unless the Canucks have food poisoning and other imysterious llnesses that run them into the ground again. Glad I can add people to an 'ignore list' Edited April 19, 2017 by HKSR 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smashian Kassian Posted April 19, 2017 Share Posted April 19, 2017 (edited) I have Heiskanen as the highest rated defenseman aswell. I'm kind of on the fence with Lilljegren/Makar. I think we should take a center with our 1st pick. Edited April 19, 2017 by Smashian Kassian Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blömqvist Posted April 19, 2017 Share Posted April 19, 2017 More info on Heiskanen: I watched the first period of the Finland vs Canada U18 game today. Heiskanen looked really good. Out on the powerplay he was calm as the lone point man and distributed the puck well. Even in tight spaces with bodies and sticks around him, Heiskanen was patient and made his move at the right time, whether if it was holding on to the puck for just a moment longer to wait for a passing lane to open up or using his skating and puck skills to quickly deke and sidestep a defender along the blueline to create space for himself and to open up those same lanes. Moreover, his skating and awareness in the defensive zone really helped him to evade the Canadian forecheck and move the puck up ice, whether through him skating the puck up himself or passing it ahead. Craig Button raved about his vision, poise, and stick skills. His ability on the powerplay to both distribute the puck and to use his puck handling ability to evade defenders. He recalled a conversation with Heiskanen's agent Igor Larionov (also Nik Goldobin's agent). Larionov said that Heiskanen's thought processing and decision making of the game reminds him of Nik Lidstrom's thought processing and decision making. Obviously very high praise by his own agent pumping his client's tires, but that is high praise nonetheless and indicative of his Hockey IQ to an extent. I didn't catch the rest of the game but Heiskanen finished with 2 points (1+1) and a +2 rating in a 6-3 Finland win over Canada. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Off_The_Schneid! Posted April 19, 2017 Share Posted April 19, 2017 I think people are forgetting that Benning went on record stating that he wanted a top playmaking centre or a top offensive defenceman however that was a week or so before the season ended and there was still a possibility that they could draft into the #8 spot where lilgren or makar could slot in and no one would bat an eye with a top 5 pick in a top heavy centre draft I think it's pretty obvious we are snagging a centre in hopes to be a future #1 thats why I don't get all this Vilardi debate on here, he's not even a centre in junior so I don't think he fits into the type of player Benning is targeting im guessing that if it's not Patrick/Hischier then Mittlestadt would be next on there list potential #1 centre and his timeline would work out perfectly. Henrik still has a couple seasons in him where Mittlestadt would still be in college 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldnews Posted April 19, 2017 Share Posted April 19, 2017 5 minutes ago, Blömqvist said: More info on Heiskanen: I watched the first period of the Finland vs Canada U18 game today. Heiskanen looked really good. Out on the powerplay he was calm as the lone point man and distributed the puck well. Even in tight spaces with bodies and sticks around him, Heiskanen was patient and made his move at the right time, whether if it was holding on to the puck for just a moment longer to wait for a passing lane to open up or using his skating and puck skills to quickly deke and sidestep a defender along the blueline to create space for himself and to open up those same lanes. Moreover, his skating and awareness in the defensive zone really helped him to evade the Canadian forecheck and move the puck up ice, whether through him skating the puck up himself or passing it ahead. Craig Button raved about his vision, poise, and stick skills. His ability on the powerplay to both distribute the puck and to use his puck handling ability to evade defenders. He recalled a conversation with Heiskanen's agent Igor Larionov (also Nik Goldobin's agent). Larionov said that Heiskanen's thought processing and decision making of the game reminds him of Nik Lidstrom's thought processing and decision making. Obviously very high praise by his own agent pumping his client's tires, but that is high praise nonetheless and indicative of his Hockey IQ to an extent. I didn't catch the rest of the game but Heiskanen finished with 2 points (1+1) and a +2 rating in a 6-3 Finland win over Canada. He's got quite a toolbox for sure. Watching this game now - tremendous skater and very alert. Snuck in and buried a one-timer - guy looks effortless. Young draft age as well (late July). Could push into the top 10.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
funkyfresh Posted April 19, 2017 Share Posted April 19, 2017 9 hours ago, Warhippy said: You don't even have cal foote in there? I don't like his skating, and his soft passes, and the way he battles in front of the net. He needs to get better at taking passes and being more physical as well. Maybe it's because I watch a lot of WHL and just watched too much Foote, so now I'm more critical of him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blömqvist Posted April 19, 2017 Share Posted April 19, 2017 21 minutes ago, Off_The_Schneid! said: I think people are forgetting that Benning went on record stating that he wanted a top playmaking centre or a top offensive defenceman however that was a week or so before the season ended and there was still a possibility that they could draft into the #8 spot where lilgren or makar could slot in and no one would bat an eye with a top 5 pick in a top heavy centre draft I think it's pretty obvious we are snagging a centre in hopes to be a future #1 thats why I don't get all this Vilardi debate on here, he's not even a centre in junior so I don't think he fits into the type of player Benning is targeting im guessing that if it's not Patrick/Hischier then Mittlestadt would be next on there list potential #1 centre and his timeline would work out perfectly. Henrik still has a couple seasons in him where Mittlestadt would still be in college I've read one scouting report that said Vilardi looks more natural on the wing. Maybe like a Dubois situation where he might end up being a winger even though he can probably play both. If that one reddit post is true and the Canucks are valuing hands, speed, and skill as priority traits then Necas has to be high on their list as well. Then maybe Pettersson as their 5th rated centreman with Vilardi and Glass afterwards. Timewise both Mittelstadt and Necas could develop in their respective leagues for a year and then jump into the NHL or AHL as early as a year from now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post BobSacamano Posted April 19, 2017 Popular Post Share Posted April 19, 2017 1 hour ago, HKSR said: Ok buddy, you, me, and everyone else on this forum knows what I'm getting at. #15 or #17, doesn't matter, especially when the player(s) are tied in scoring. I honestly sense some autism spectrum in you. Anyways, like I said, elite high-end skill needed. We're unlikely to finish 2nd from the bottom again next year unless the Canucks have food poisoning and other imysterious llnesses that run them into the ground again. Glad I can add people to an 'ignore list' I don't want to take this off topic but stating that you sense someone might be in the autism spectrum isn't cool dude. I don't care if you're trying to be funny or not, that is not something to throw around. Canucks, among many other organizations, go to great lengths in helping those and their families who live with autism. That comment was completely unneccesary, show some respect and some class. I'm going to add you to my ignore list. 11 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shiznak Posted April 19, 2017 Share Posted April 19, 2017 (edited) 13 hours ago, Warhippy said: You don't even have cal foote in there? I know you're really high on Foote, but I don't see him being a very serviceable defender in this league unless he works on his "foot" work (no pun intended). At times I see him get beat wide a lot, but does recover with his long reach. Not sure if he could rely on that, in the pros. I think Erik Gubranson is a pretty fair comparison, if he reaches his ceiling. Edited April 19, 2017 by shiznak Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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