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(proposal: getting our first line centre)


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Nugent Hopkins is a good hockey player, but he's not a franchise center. He's talented, but soft and one dimensional.

 

And don't even try to compare him being soft to the Sedins perceived "lack of toughness". The Sedins have pretty much lived in the dirtiest areas of the ice for the last 15 years. Nothing soft about that.

 

We can do better.

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5 minutes ago, 48MPHSlapShot said:

Nugent Hopkins is a good hockey player, but he's not a franchise center. He's talented, but soft and one dimensional.

 

And don't even try to compare him being soft to the Sedins perceived "lack of toughness". The Sedins have pretty much lived in the dirtiest areas of the ice for the last 15 years. Nothing soft about that.

 

We can do better.

i know sedins r tough in that way, but their not looked as tough players like other guys around the league are

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We are in a rebuild. Team like Florida have recognized the importance of having good goaltending, a big strong defence with puck moving ability capable of contributing offence. Plus being big at Centre from lines 1-4. 

 

RNH will always have a hard time battling the big 6ft 4 + guys like Getzlaf and Thornton. Since we are in a rebuild i would rather hold off for 2 big young power forwards with skill and who can win fights to fill our 1st and 2nd line C positions.  

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I quite like this proposal, and think that, unlike guys like Ty Ronning, Ryan should be a guy for whom the "hometown boy" narrative should be used as incentive to acquire him.  Now I'm not saying that the Oil would sell him to us (for the right price, if at all) and I agree that the price suggested is steep (Tanev's a bargain), but centers at his age and his skill level are difficult to acquire in trade, and should be the kind of guy Jim would look at given the opportunity to fast-forward the team's climb back to competitiveness.  Props also to OP for offering a realistic return to the Oil.  
 

3 hours ago, 48MPHSlapShot said:

Nugent Hopkins is a good hockey player, but he's not a franchise center. He's talented, but soft and one dimensional.

 

And don't even try to compare him being soft to the Sedins perceived "lack of toughness". The Sedins have pretty much lived in the dirtiest areas of the ice for the last 15 years. Nothing soft about that.

 

We can do better.

Let me first say, the thread's title says we're getting a 1st line center, not a franchise center.  It's not like we're getting a Kopitar/ Toews/ Crosby/ McDavid/ Matthews*, so if people realize that's what OP is suggesting it might help to temper expectations to realistic levels.

Second, I disagree with the notions that he is "soft".  Compared with even the Twins early in their career, I'd argue that he's shown an aptitude for the rough going which is similar, if not even higher than what 22 and 33 showed (to their credit, those two battle hard along the boards also).  There are clips of Ryan on YouTube going up against and hitting bigger, tougher guys like Brenden Morrow, going after Hammer to stand up for himself after getting decked and going to the crease to stuff home loose pucks.  He's also been credited for having a "decent history" as a PKer and was suggested as someone "worth continuing to use" in that capacity (http://oilersnation.com/2016/4/15/oilers-2015-16-in-review-the-penalty-kill), which isn't something that you would attribute to purely one-dimensional players.  That shows to me that, with more gym time and growth, he'll be better able to handle the rough going, and his talent could really shine through in different situations.

We can do better, but Ryan isn't too bad of an option.  With time to fill in his frame, and physical, shoot-first wingers (say next to Jake or Brock) and I think he'll have the time and space needed to put up good numbers.
 

3 hours ago, Jam126 said:

The Oilers ruined his development. Pass.

I've never understood this about him.  If we're talking about Yak, sure.  Jultz?  I'd agree.  But I'd like to hear how you would justify that about a 23-year-old who's put up 0.7 points per game on average (definitely in 1st-line territory) during his first 5 years, and whose role was only supplanted by Leon and Connor's emergence.

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5 hours ago, nickels said:

I'd do this trade but for much different reasoning.

 

I believe RNH for Tanev is a fairly equal trade.

 

I think Sutter actually carries "negative" value.  I don't think he is worth nearly the contract we gave him, and would rather have the cap space.

 

I know many in here will disagree, but it's amazing how Sutters perceived value increased while he was injured.

 

He is a very avg 40 pt center who plays defensively responsible. Not a top 6 center in any stretch of the imagination. The team was able to inflate his #'s a bit by thru his brief stint playing with the twins.

 

I am amazed how people on this site continually pencil him in as our #2 C.  Horvat this year will far surpass any offensive season of Sutters career.    Bo is our #2 C, and should be given every opportunity to excel in that role.

 

Oh big deal we gave him a raise of $1.1 million. Give me a break. 

 

As for the trade, I'd have interest in RNH, but not at that price. 

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27 minutes ago, Phil_314 said:

  Let me first say, the thread's title says we're getting a 1st line center, not a franchise center.  It's not like we're getting a Kopitar/ Toews/ Crosby/ McDavid/ Matthews*, so if people realize that's what OP is suggesting it might help to temper expectations to realistic levels.

Second, I disagree with the notions that he is "soft".  Compared with even the Twins early in their career, I'd argue that he's shown an aptitude for the rough going which is similar, if not even higher than what 22 and 33 showed (to their credit, those two battle hard along the boards also).  There are clips of Ryan on YouTube going up against and hitting bigger, tougher guys like Brenden Morrow, going after Hammer to stand up for himself after getting decked and going to the crease to stuff home loose pucks.  He's also been credited for having a "decent history" as a PKer and was suggested as someone "worth continuing to use" in that capacity (http://oilersnation.com/2016/4/15/oilers-2015-16-in-review-the-penalty-kill), which isn't something that you would attribute to purely one-dimensional players.  That shows to me that, with more gym time and growth, he'll be better able to handle the rough going, and his talent could really shine through in different situations.

We can do better, but Ryan isn't too bad of an option.  With time to fill in his frame, and physical, shoot-first wingers (say next to Jake or Brock) and I think he'll have the time and space needed to put up good numbers.

I just worry about what happens to him in, say, a seven game playoff series against a heavy hitting team. I also worry about the fact that, while his production is solid, he seems to have cemented himself as a perennial 50-60 point per year player. If, in addition to netting 50-60 points per season,he could provide a big physical edge to the team, or be an elite two-way forward type player, then I may be more inclined to pull the trigger. However, as it stands right now, he is primarily a finesse player. Don't get me wrong, I'd have no problem with a purely finesse player centering our top line, but if that were to be the case, they'd have to be able to contribute more than 50 points a season. Being an "decent" penalty killer, and being able to "stand up for himself" just isn't enough, as there are a lot of players in the league who qualify as "decent" penalty killers, or players that can "stand up for themselves".

 

So, while calling him completely "one dimensional" may be a tad harsh, I wouldn't exactly say he's a multidimensional player either.

 

Long and short of it is that I'd rather not settle on a player that likely doesn't fit into what Benning is trying to do just because he may be the best available option at the moment.. We're still a ways away from a new core cementing itself, so let's wait and see what Benning can do.

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8 hours ago, Harvey Spector said:

RNH is not a first line centre and he gets paid first line money. He's basically untradeable unless Edmonton wants to take a bad contract back. 

Well the Wild have interest.  They want to upgrade on Granlund - he just doesn't put up enough points for the opportunities he is offered.  

 

Russo tweeted on draft day: "Lots of steam today that #mnwild and #oilers could partner up tonight. Wild likely targeting Ryan Nugent-Hopkins, Oilers Brodin or Dumba" and also "#mnwild definitely in on RNH, but league executive says "oilers are in the middle of everything". 

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I like the hometown connection but I think you're targeting the wrong Ryan. I've been high on RyJo from the start. He's big, and most of the teams in our division employ big centres, so we'll need someone to combat that in front of their net. Sure, JB went out and acquired some big guys to take care of our end, but we need to score...and a LOT more than we did last season. Somebody needs to get in front of the net and battle the big centremen we have in the PACDIV. Henrik doesn't go there (that's why Burrows was so effective on their line), Kesler went to the front, I'm sure BoHo will as well.

 

The #1C problem we have is 2 dimensional. We need a big #1C...and we need him now. I so badly wanted PLD at the draft for that reason, but that bird has flown the coop...move on.

 

There "may" be another way to solve this problem. Often times teams employ the tactic of that #1Cman paired with a strong finishing winger, and the "other" guy on the top-line is a throw-in (in order to balance out the other lines and give some depth to the organization)...recent example might be Ward (when he was with OVI8 and Backstrom) or even our own twins. So what if we employ that tactic but instead of a "throw-in" winger, we use a "throw-in" Cman? If we have a strong playmaking winger paired with a strong finisher/sniper winger and let them do their thing, we could use a big strong puck possession-type Cman (strong face-off numbers and who isn't afraid to hit the corners AND the front of the net) maybe we could score more off the rush AND off of O-side possession...what do you guys think?

 

Examples of "possibly available" (if price was right) guys that fit this mold would be:

Duchene (57.9%)

J.Staal (57.8%)

Bozak (56.4%)

Stastny (56.1%)

Hanzal (56%)

Zajac (51.6%)

**Turris (51.3%)

**(hometown boy as well)

 

Of course I would still prefer **RyJo (52.3%) but I highly doubt he's available without trading away 1/3 of our team, so not worth it. And what about our own boys? Obviously limited stats for Sutter but he has proven over the years to be a decent face-off guy. And BoHo comes in at 50.9% so...he could potentially fill that role as well if we could also acquire or develop the supporting wingers I described above.

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