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[Discussion] Have we bridged the gap?


Warhippy

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1 minute ago, aliboy said:

At this point the answer is likely, no. It is possible that we may not do so well in the UFA market, sounds like there are other teams with plenty of interest in the players in which we are interested. We traded McCann, did not draft a high-end forward to replace him, so that leaves a hole to fill. The defense is looking good, perhaps a Sbisa trade coming and a little tweaking, but nothing major. JB may need to make a deal to bring in a forward or two which may involve some draft picks, as I don't think he's interested in having another tough year.

McCann, had he still been a Canuck, would have likely played in Utica next year IMO.  So that would have left Sedin, Sutter, Horvat and Granlund as our top 4 centerman, I'm okay with that.  I was most bothered by the quick inclusion of our 33rd overall pick.  IF Canucks sign one of the top FAs, I surely hope it fits within teams financial structure AND makes sense in 2 years from now when this team is supposed to be contending (with new young core...)

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20 minutes ago, Warhippy said:

I'm just wondering really if we're done moving picks for players in that age bracket and if we're ready to move forward and possibly start keeping or stockpiling picks

 

Beneficial deals not with standing

if they pick up 1 or 2 fa's where does this leave gaunce,griener, kennins  these guys have to be getting sick of the comets by now ?  all 3 being very close to nhl ready.

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The gap is a fallacy. 

 

Teams are not built on draft picks alone. Having a glut of promising prospects is no guarantee of success. Just ask Edmonton, or Colorado, or the numerous other teams who've not found what they need through prospect promise.

 

Winning teams are built with players who buy into a system, support each other, & sacrifice for the greater good. Nobody wins a Stanley in the NHL without blood, sweat, & more blood.

 

Some of those players will be drafted, others will be traded for, signed as UFA's, etc.

 

What's important is not how the player is acquired, but what player is acquired.

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I think they only move picks if it makes sense to close the deal.  The issue hasn't just been moving the picks, it's that we don't have assets to trade to regain those picks in other deals.  Teams move picks in and out all the time.  Our talent pool isn't such that we could recoup those picks in separate deals - as in at the draft or trade deadline.

 

I think if they can sign 1 or 2 mid age wingers that the days of sending out picks without replacing them are over.  I believe our D and D  prospect pool are looking okay.  Time to draft some forwards and maybe make a trade or 2.  We will know more in about a week.

 

I am hoping for Brouwer and Erikkson and don't forget I think we are #3 on the waiver wire.  As I have said this team is 3 - 5 years from knowing what we really have in the pipe. But I like the progress so far.  Jim hasn't had much to work with and because of this mistakes can be really noticeable and hard to rectify.

 

On  another topic I believe they need to hire a GM.  Benning is a hockey rat and I trust his talent analysis.  I don't think anyone works harder than him.  But he needs some help with public profile and day to day GM duties to let him focus on his strengths.  He is an amazing Assistant GM / Head Scout.  Get him some help.  

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It's sure getting close with some quality and good mix of physical and skill D. It might take a while to become a dominant D but that's just time ...it's coming along. Tanev/Gudbranson/Tryamkn all playing the right side and Hutton/Edler/Juolavi on the left I'd say a good mix. As to the forwards Boesser, Baertschi,Horvat,Rodin,Virtanen, and maybe a Zalewski and Gaunce it looks positive BUT no #1 centre. That's the next ( and difficult to over come ) need.

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55 minutes ago, Warhippy said:

So of course the usual melt down happened this week

 

ZOMG Benningz didn't trade all da vetz and draft all the prospeckzzz

 

But let's be serious here.  It can be hard watching other teams do that.  We all get shiny new toy syndrome and would like to add to our teams' personal wealth in depth and skilled prospects. 

 

But we couldn't.  Why?  Because we traded all the picks right?  Well sort of.

 

We traded a few picks and for a few players over the past few seasons to bridge that perceived gap of 20-25 age players.  The reason being we needed skilled young NHL ready bodies.  Most people could see that.

 

But after the Real Gud Trade (Gudbranson) and shoring up our defense with arguably a possible NHL ready D Man in Juolevi this draft are we done?  Have we finally bridged the gap where we can now start stockpiling picks as opposed to trying to bridge that gap?

 

Just really wondering what everyone thinks in regards to this or if they think we might see another few trades this year to bring in a few wingers/D at or around the 20-25 age range.

 

Thoughts?

Benning has been upgrading and bringing in players throughout the year not just at the draft.  As long as picks or prospects are used to acquire young players who will actually play I am fine with these moves.  Examples:

  • Jensen --> Etem
  • Shinkaruk --> Granlund
  • McCann, 2nd --> Gudbranson
  • 5th --> Larsen
  • 2nd --> Vey 
  • The jury is still out on many of these moves and Vey filled a hole temporarily

The lack of players in the middle of the age range (21-28) was not perceived.  2 years ago it was very real.  Since players in their prime are very expensive to acquire, Benning concentrated on players at the younger end of the scale.  Now, 21-24 year olds represent the biggest group in terms of numbers in the organization.

 

Is it time to shift priorities?  Maybe.

 

Stockpiling picks and concentrating on quality might be on Bennings agenda.

 

29 minutes ago, stawns said:

At some point, I think one of edler or tanev are moved for a top 6 fwd.  

I don't see robbing Peter to pay Paul honestly.  You could agrue that moving Garrison to sign Vrbata was a mistake.  It certainly opened up a big hole in the defense that Benning took 2 years to plug.

 

Defense is now a strength of the team.  They have good goaltending and are decent up the middle for the short term.  The Canucks in a good place.

 

I agree, they may now be in a position to grow the team in a more conventional way.

 

 

 

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18 minutes ago, Warhippy said:

I'm just wondering really if we're done moving picks for players in that age bracket and if we're ready to move forward and possibly start keeping or stockpiling picks

 

Beneficial deals not with standing

“I’d love to have more picks,” Benning said twice. “We had to give up some picks to try and make our team competitive this year, like the (Erik) Gudbranson trade.

“Going forward, I want to be like some of these other teams, with lots of picks where you can trade up and down. That’s the fun of the draft.”

 

http://vancouversun.com/sports/hockey/nhl/vancouver-canucks/the-canucks-absorb-some-body-blows-during-draft-weekend

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Everything I've seen since Benning and Linden were hired leads me to believe that they want the team to be in the playoffs and we are only a couple of free agent signings away from being there and possibly contending for a Cup.

 

I generally agree with the first and disagree with the second, but that's just me.

 

I really don't think they are all that concerned about "stockpiling draft picks". The narrative is "be competitive", whatever it takes to make that happen.

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10 minutes ago, Winter Soldier said:

So, hearsay. Gotcha.

Well hearsay to a point.  We have heard the same message about our owner's level of involvement for several years.  Was Gillis free to rebuild?  Was Torts a Gillis choice?  Hiring two rookie GMs and a rookie President?  Insiders from ex players (Ferraro) to respected reporters (Freidman) stating as much?  

Yes there is no one signing affidavits, but there is A LOT of circumstantial evidence. 

I am not saying the owner shouldn't be involved, or if his involvement is good or bad.  I am saying he is involved. 

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1 minute ago, Alflives said:

Well hearsay to a point.  We have heard the same message about our owner's level of involvement for several years.  Was Gillis free to rebuild?  Was Torts a Gillis choice?  Hiring two rookie GMs and a rookie President?  Insiders from ex players (Ferraro) to respected reporters (Freidman) stating as much?  

Yes there is no one signing affidavits, but there is A LOT of circumstantial evidence. 

I am not saying the owner shouldn't be involved, or if his involvement is good or bad.  I am saying he is involved. 

Going to disagree with this.

 

We've been subjected to the same hearsay for a few years now, but it's always been hearsay. "Evidence" implies that there is more to it than people just guessing.

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19 minutes ago, Alflives said:

I understand Hippy.  I hope you are right, but expect you are wrong.  Our owner is in "make the playoffs" mode, and is a feared of the fan base losing interest in the team if we fall into the bottom feeders.  So, I think we will continue to trade second and third round picks for more developed players, who can compete instantly.  I also see us trading guys like McCann and Sinkaruk (need more development, but have high ceilings) for more "ready now" players.

 

This is an excellent topic. 

 

 

Im OK with this plan personally. 

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15 minutes ago, Alflives said:

I understand Hippy.  I hope you are right, but expect you are wrong.  Our owner is in "make the playoffs" mode, and is a feared of the fan base losing interest in the team if we fall into the bottom feeders.  So, I think we will continue to trade second and third round picks for more developed players, who can compete instantly.  I also see us trading guys like McCann and Sinkaruk (need more development, but have high ceilings) for more "ready now" players.

 

This is an excellent topic. 

Do they not listen to the fan base???  Can they not tell that most are accepting of a rebuild?  I'd rather watch a young team with upside struggle with inconsistencies and miss the playoffs for a year or two versus the influx of secondary talent that allow for mediocrity which never results in a championship.  To me, it appears owners just want building filled and a few playoff dates to line their wallets...

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32 minutes ago, Warhippy said:

I'm just wondering really if we're done moving picks for players in that age bracket and if we're ready to move forward and possibly start keeping or stockpiling picks

 

Beneficial deals not with standing

If Baertschi type deals present themselves, Benning takes them. After this draft and being unable to recoup anything, he's probably going to be more hesitant to do it though.

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1 minute ago, Frikandel said:

Do they not listen to the fan base???  Can they not tell that most are accepting of a rebuild?  I'd rather watch a young team with upside struggle with inconsistencies and miss the playoffs for a year or two versus the influx of secondary talent that allow for mediocrity which never results in a championship.  To me, it appears owners just want building filled and a few playoff dates to line their wallets...

 

 

Most of the VOCAL fan base are in favour of a rebuild (ie on message boards) the vocal fan base is indeed the minority group of fans however

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1 minute ago, Frikandel said:

Do they not listen to the fan base???  Can they not tell that most are accepting of a rebuild?  I'd rather watch a young team with upside struggle with inconsistencies and miss the playoffs for a year or two versus the influx of secondary talent that allow for mediocrity which never results in a championship.  To me, it appears owners just want building filled and a few playoff dates to line their wallets...

Well you just said yourself you'd rather see them struggle for a year or two. We just watched year one. If they struggle again, then what?

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47 minutes ago, stawns said:

At some point, I think one of edler or tanev are moved for a top 6 fwd.  

Hopefully Edler and his NTC.

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3 minutes ago, Boddy604 said:

Well you just said yourself you'd rather see them struggle for a year or two. We just watched year one. If they struggle again, then what?

We watched a struggling team filled with an aging core (Sedins, Burrows, Higgins, Hamhuis, Miller, Vrbata, etc), bad luck (typical of Canucks), injuries (also typical of Canucks) exposed their lack of depth which resulted in a 27th place finish.  Canuck mgmt tried for playoffs till nearly the end knowing full well the result would be a 4-5 game first round loss.  Had they been more committed to rebuilding, perhaps we would not have endured the fiasco that was the 2016 trade deadline!  As a result, we only had 2 picks in the top 100.  The inherited willingness to trade our 2nd round picks drive me nuts!

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1 hour ago, Wilbur said:

I'd say Benning has on defense.  It's crazy what the addition of Gudbranson and a promising start to Tryamkin's NHL career did for defensive depth.  The outlook on defense is a complete 180 from where it was in, say, March.

Take it back to last September when nobody had heard of Hutton, add in Gudbranson and Tryamkin and now the hope for the emergence of Juolevi...

It's hard to imagine a more distinct turnaround of a D corps.

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33 minutes ago, falcon45ca said:

The gap is a fallacy. 

 

Teams are not built on draft picks alone. Having a glut of promising prospects is no guarantee of success. Just ask Edmonton, or Colorado, or the numerous other teams who've not found what they need through prospect promise.

 

Winning teams are built with players who buy into a system, support each other, & sacrifice for the greater good. Nobody wins a Stanley in the NHL without blood, sweat, & more blood.

 

Some of those players will be drafted, others will be traded for, signed as UFA's, etc.

 

What's important is not how the player is acquired, but what player is acquired.

Agreed

 

ill add to this if I may: 

 

....and when and for how much.

 

does JB add a player at FA for term and money because he feels we just need to get to the dance or, to put butts in seats?

 

my opinion is: if a significant FA is signed this years it's because attendance has been dropping.  This is not a market that cant handle a rebuild.

 

while the back end has been shored up to some degree, their is no obvious replacements for the sedins.  At this point I don't see any elite forward prospect.  Sure there are a few that could be considered top line level but not elite.

 

jb has certainly accomplished enough to keep me watching.   I'm quite pleased with the dynamic of our d group.  I was thrilled with the news of GUD coming here as I have been a fan for some time.  It was at the cost of a player that I felt had elite skill and heart, but could that skill cope with what it takes to perform in our division?

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