Take This Back to Sept, 2015

[Nuxfanabroad]

Finishing 3rd worst, we can all agree, was a rather crummy campaign. Let's all be realistic(for discussion's sake) & accept that our top-end potential might've been the 2nd round, had the season run optimally.

 

So WOULD we fans have accepted all this, had we known what was in the cards, last fall at training camp?

 

- 3rd worst overall(likely dropped about 5~8 slots, due to a slew of injuries)

- Get to land the 5th OV selection, allowing us the top chosen D-man

- Trade off Shink & McCann, acquiring a big, snarly D most felt we lacked, & some possible fwd depth

- Emergence of an Ent, Tree-man. Finally, significant size on the blueline.

- Landing more 'free' assets like D, Stecher & G, Gartreig

- Breakthru seasons for a few of our kids, namely Boeser & Demko(Hutton too!)

 

with  a few more hitches...

- trades with poor optics(Bones, Prust, losing a few picks)

- mixed reviews for one of our key young fwds, Virtanen

- rather meh-season for the Comets, possibly even overachieving, with an underwhelming roster

 

Looking at this season as a realist, even healthy this team wouldn't win it all. So the injuries put us in a position to draft perhaps our best D-prospect ever.

 

So to give the team an overall rating on a tough season, it'd prob be a 4 or 5 outa' 10. Considering health.

But to rate these last 8~10 mos for our overall organization? I'd perhaps give it an 8.5 outa' 10.

 

Two questions?..How would you rate these two categories(team, & overall-org)

Secondly, if there was ONE realistic alteration(or omission of one of Jimbo's moves since Sept), what would that be?

 

I would've liked a bit more experience for some of our marginal kids, in the show(mostly, to see precisely what they've got).

[Nuxfanabroad]

Strange how something that looks so damned lousy(from Sept's pov) can seem so worthy/beneficial, when seen in the rear-view...

[luckylager]

1a- team performance: 3/10. Too many games lost in the turd. Vets couldn't hold leads and didn't seem to drive the play.

 

1b- org. growth, team building, etc.: 9/10. The kids are alright! Sneak that big tree under the radar, Jensen for Stem, Baer, Hutton all good.

 

What to change or do differently - Corrado, that kinda sucked. Also, I was expecting Gaunce and Shink to be moved for a Dman. I'm still not crazy about Grandlund, but I didn't really like the bowlegged puck hog we traded away for him so...

[Nuxfanabroad]

2 minutes ago, luckylager said:

1a- team performance: 3/10. Too many games lost in the turd. Vets couldn't hold leads and didn't seem to drive the play.

 

1b- org. growth, team building, etc.: 9/10. The kids are alright! Sneak that big tree under the radar, Jensen for Stem, Baer, Hutton all good.

 

What to change or do differently - Corrado, that kinda sucked. Also, I was expecting Gaunce and Shink to be moved for a Dman. I'm still not crazy about Grandlund, but I didn't really like the bowlegged puck hog we traded away for him so...

L2,   That's a harsh team rating man(lots of guys knocked out)..but maybe that's WHY I didn't bother tuning in?! :^)

 

Second rating, glad you agree, things appear pretty nice for the overall-org category.

 

As for Corrado, will that kid eventually amount to much? Figure we've got 5 or 6 RH-D's ahead of the bloke already.

[naslund.is.king]

7/10 across the board.

I respect Jb. He never had a easy job with the make up of this team. 

I want to see the Sedins retire happy In a Canucks jersey..some would say that's irrelevant.. but for me a full tear it down rebuild wouldnt do alot for them. He's respecting that and I can't give him enough credit for realizing their meaning to this fan base

Coming off an off season in which we acquired arguably the top defensive prospect and free agent forward, I have nothing to complain about..Best of both worlds really in our situation.. Combine that with play of Brock,Horvat,Demko,Hutton,Sven and etc I see alot to be positive about even if this is considered a low time

I like preparing for a miracle like leicester while also realizing the reality of where we're at

Nothing lasts forever my as well appreciate where we're at

[luckylager]

19 minutes ago, Nuxfanabroad said:

L2,   That's a harsh team rating man(lots of guys knocked out)..but maybe that's WHY I didn't bother tuning in?! :^)

 

Second rating, glad you agree, things appear pretty nice for the overall-org category.

 

As for Corrado, will that kid eventually amount to much? Figure we've got 5 or 6 RH-D's ahead of the bloke already.

We could have used Frankie last year. Sure Biega came in and was solid, but JB shouldn't have signed the kid 1way. Trade his rights for anything, but to lose a player that had been in the system for a while.... to the leafs.... just pissed me off.

 

Mostly because I hate the leafs. 

 

I don't agree we have 5 RHD ahead of him though, 2 for sure, maybe 3. Okay 3, I'd rather Tree (even though he's Lshot, Rside) and Biega proved his worth, so 4.... okay 4 ahead of him. Not a big loss, I just hate the leafs.

[Nuxfanabroad]

14 minutes ago, naslund.is.king said:

7/10 across the board.

I respect Jb. He never had a easy job with the make up of this team. 

I want to see the Sedins retire happy In a Canucks jersey..some would say that's irrelevant.. but for me a full tear it down rebuild wouldnt do alot for them. He's respecting that and I can't give him enough credit for realizing their meaning to this fan base

Coming off an off season in which we acquired arguably the top defensive prospect and free agent forward, I have nothing to complain about..Best of both worlds really in our situation.. Combine that with play of Brock,Horvat,Demko,Hutton,Sven and etc I see alot to be positive about even if this is considered a low time

I like preparing for a miracle like leicester while also realizing the reality of where we're at

Nothing lasts forever my as well appreciate where we're at

NIK,  Part of the rationale for my original post was to seperate our performance(of only 1 season), or perhaps even contrast it with the overall-outlook on the org, as a whole.

 

Take Mtl as an example. Prob 2/10 for this season, & maybe the same lousy 2/10 for their overall-scheme. The Price injury highlighted how they were overly dependent upon a few names, then the Subban deal possibly turfs one of their most impressive players of recent history.

 

Of Cdn teams, I'd say WPG's yr played out similar to ours, albeit likely even better.

[SaintPatrick33]

7/10 for the season. I thought we started off great, the team looked much faster, McCann and Jake made the bigs, Sutter was playing really well, and Hutton came out of nowhere. However, as the injuries piled up, it was clear this team could not compete. Was probably a blessing though since we were able to play 9 rookies and see what they had. 

 

Chemistry wise the team was a mess, had a tough time stringing together 3 passes which is natural for a team missing so many regulars. Bear and Horvat kept me watching the last half of the season. The Sedins showed a tougher, more vocal side of their leadership, something that bodes well for us. 

 

9/10 for Organization. Remember how so many were upset at trading Lack, Kassian Bones and our 2nd rounders? Turned out to be wise moves IMO. Snagging Boeser in the draft and seeing his dominance this past year proved to me JB knows what he doing at the draft. For once I do not have to cover my eyes when a Nucks GM hits the podium. Could we have had more picks? Maybe, but the guys on the trade block (higgins, Burr, Hamhuis, Vrbata) seem to have little value around the league. 

[Nuxfanabroad]

^Good one, StPatty, especially like that last para. I was one of the critics(early season) on returns at that moment..things are looking far more reasonable, about now.

[AlwaysACanuckFan]

Team performance I'm going to give a rating of 6 mainly because in a tough season like last season, the young players like Horvat, Baertschi, Hutton put up pretty good numbers. Gotta give alot of credit to Miller and Markstrom for doing their best to keep the team in the games. 

 

Organizational growth etc I'm going to give a rating of 9. I think  Benning is on the right track with the team he wants to build. I think it's exciting to watch the kids  play and grow. Baertschi Horvat Hutton Tryamkin Virtanen  kept me watching the Canucks  until the last game of the year. With young prospects like Demko, Boeser, Juolevi etc in the pipeline you cannot complain about Bennings drafting as finally it seems to be heading in the right direction. 


 

 

 

[The Lock]

First of all, I don't believe anyone is a "realist". In this industry, nothing is set in stone; therefore, it's impossible to tell it "like it is". There is no "is" when there are multiple directions one can take with the decision-making process. Objective might be a better term but that's an argument for another day. That aside....

 

As far as how the season went, I knew last season was going to be hit or miss and could have gone either way. Let's not forget that we experienced a ton of injuries to key players last year. This forced players like Horvat into roles that made them struggle for a while until they found their game. 

 

I doubt anyone was truly expecting a cup last season. If you compare this board last season to seasons prior, I hardly saw anyone claiming "this is the year". Even Linden near the end of the season admitted he knew this team wasn't going to play like the year before. It's the process of transitioning from an older player base to a younger player base. The fact that we hardly had any prospects in the cupboard when Benning arrived didn't help either.

 

To answer the question by the op, I don't know if I would have changed anything as I can't really think of anything I wouldn't have done (at least with the things I would actually have knowledge on) that Benning did during the time of each move. Call me crazy if you'd like, but most of it makes logical sense to me. The idea of Prust was good at the time and only hindsight tells me otherwise. Giving Vey a final shot before letting him go made sense as well. Even seeing if Pedan can play forward seemed interesting to me. Hey, if it means Pedan gets to play in the NHL as a result of being moved to forward, why not?

[khay]

Team performance: 5/10.

 

Starting with Sutter's injury, everything fell apart. One thing we learned is that you cannot go into the season without a contingency plan. A good manager should be prepared with plans A, B, and C. I think we went in the season with plan A but with a very poor plan B and no plan C. So blaming the poor season just on injuries isn't quite right. The management should take a bit of the blame for not doing much to improve and building on a good 2014/15 season. Hence 5/10.

 

Overall organizational improvements for now: 8/10.

Overall organizational improvements for the future: 8.5/10.

 

For next season:

 

-Added Eriksson, a player that can score 20-35 goals.

-Etem, Rodin, and Larsson. We  just need one of these types of reclamation projects to work out. Good on JB for trying.
-Added Gudbranson by trading McCann who will be a top 6 forward but he was behind Henrik, Bo, and Sutter in the center depth chart so he was one asset that we could have afforded to lose. In return, we strengthened our top 4.

-Tryamkin. He will be able to slot in next season and also get better in the future.

 

To compete in the today's NHL and to win a round or two in the playoffs, you need 3 lines that can score, or 9 very good players that can score at least 15 goals.

 

We have Daniel, Henrik, Eriksson, Sutter, Horvat, Baertschi, and Hansen, all of whom can score somewhere around 20 goals. It would be nice to add a 2LW, which would improve 8/10 score 9/10 for me. If Etem or Rodin show that they are top 9 forwards, that would bring it up to 8.5/10. 

 

Our defence depth is, Edler, Tanev, Gudbranson, Hutton, Sbisa, Tryamkin, and Larsen. That is a respectable defence. 

San Jose's defence: Burns, Vlasic, Martin, Braun, Dillon, Polak.

Pittsburgh's defence: Letang, Maata, Daley, Pouliot, Lovejoy, Dumoulin, Cole, Shultz.

 

Letang and Burns are elite defenders that we don't have but aside from them, I think we are not too far behind. We have a potential elite PMD coming up now so there's that. Adding the elite defenceman is nearly impossible so can't fault JB on this. Edler is the best we got and that's that for now.

 

For the future:

-Added Juolevi, a PMD that we do not have in our prospect pool.

-Signed Demko, a future #1 goalie.

-Boeser showed his first line potential. Future 30 goal scorer.

 

3 potentially elite level players that emerged since last September. JB sure is building up a good prospect pool.

 

One move that I would have liked JB to have made: Trading up to land 3rd overall. I really like Juolevi but CBJ wanted Dubois and if we had Puljujarvi ahead of Dubois (which seems to have been the case based on Benning's interviews), then I think a deal could have been made. But I'm happy with JB's moves in general. One small regret is not trading Hamhuis but if we did, our defence would have been even more unbearable and could have ruined the confidence of many players including Hutton and Markstrom. 

 

 

[CanadianRugby]

Team: 1/10

Don't remember last time I saw the Canucks be that bad, or that boring. 

 

Organization: 4/10

Short term gets points for overhaul of D.  Long term loses points because we still don't have a prospect pool that can compete with too many other teams. 

[Inge34]

Team Performance - 4/10 - The team struggled to hold leads or even puck possession in the 3rd, our d-men were pedestrian after injuries, Young guys looked good, inconsistent but good, No push back as the season went on till very late in season, goaltending was good for most of the season, and we lacked offensive punch. 

 

Overall Organization - 7.5/10 - The team is drafting well, 3 bona fide stud prospects, signing youth to fill our farm depth, traded picks and players for more seasoned young NHL ready players, has built goaltending and defence depth at the farm and NHL level, and has made the team harder to play against by adding Guddy and Tree. JB has a vision and he is trying to get there. 

 

My mulligan move would be to move Hamhuis for anything now that we know we got another stud in Guddy.

[SaintPatrick33]

38 minutes ago, CanadianRugby said:

Team: 1/10

Don't remember last time I saw the Canucks be that bad, or that boring. 

 

Organization: 4/10

Short term gets points for overhaul of D.  Long term loses points because we still don't have a prospect pool that can compete with too many other teams. 

 

The Torts year was IMO much worse. If we were down 1-0 you knew the game was over. At least this past season you could say we injected rookies into the lineup, its just that our D was AHL quality with all the injuries. 

[SaintPatrick33]

2 hours ago, Nuxfanabroad said:

^Good one, StPatty, especially like that last para. I was one of the critics(early season) on returns at that moment..things are looking far more reasonable, about now.

 

I was quite critical of the Kassian trade at the time, I kept wondering why they never gave him minutes because when he played with the Sedins that line was dynamite. Only afterwards when he crashed a truck into a tree did I realize what JB and the Sedins had been saying all along. I still like the guy and hope he gets it together, seems like he has been through some tough times at a young age. 

[Phat Fingers]

Our season was the worst in over ten years, even with the Torts experiment, but unlike that year, this was more promising for the future as our younger players got some significant NHL experience.  Unlike the torts year, or GM has gone out and done something to rejuvenate the roster. I cannot blame anyone for our rough season.  Our biggest weakness last season was depth. I don't believe that to be a problem this coming season. 3/10. 

 

Cant really fault the management, players or the coaching staff. It was a tough year to get thru. Liked the. Engry and enthusiasm that Bo, Baer and Trymakin have, saw glimpses of Virtannen's potential.  

 

This gives me an optimistic view of the roster.  We are closer to competing than the nay sayerrs realize. We have some blue chip players in the system Boeser, Demko and Juolevi.  

 

JB has taking some risk and gambled on some interesting wild cards that have the ability to to really payoff. Etem, Granlund, Rodin, Stretcher.  If one or two payoff, we will be five years faster in the rebuild and will understand what 'rebuilding on the fly' means to Linden and Benning.

 

Addressing our defensive imbalance and toughness by adding a RHD beast in Gudbranson, with Trymakin potentially, if he can get his conditioning to NHL levels.  This is huge. This year, Sbisa could be our 7th guy. Last year he was a top 4. With Bartowski and Webber as our 5/6.  Major improvement to defensive depth and balance.  The organization believes in Hutton, that is why Hammer was not resigned. Larsen, well really excited to see what he can bring to camp. Pedan. Well he will have his work cut out for him. 

 

Replacing Vrbata with Eriksson.  Win. Duh.  I cannot see what all the fuss is about. This Management team believes it can pick up good players at the draft. So why tank?  Boeser was a 23rd OA pick. McCann was 25th. Trymakin was a 3rd and Demko was a 2nd. JB spots talent and this is huge for the club.  If you can add quality players thru the draft every year, and have a good development system. Why not go for it every year?   

 

Yes everyone wants a top pick. Something this organization has never had, yet we came within a hairs breath for winning it all in 1994 and 2011. In fact we were screwed over both years, shows that we can get to the promised land without a 1st OA pick. 

 

Three players that I am really keen on watching this year are Gaunce, Cassels and Subban.  Gaunce is going to be an NHLer, can it be this year?  Can Cassels show some of that memorial cup moxie, and is Subban able to compete against the big boys, or does he switch to forward, and play point on the power play?  

 

8.5/10 for the organization. Love what JB has manufactured out of a pretty $&!#ty situation. 

 

 

[smithers joe]

i look at the trades as good and bad ....they picked up vrbata as a free agent...he played lights out with the sedins....i believe they requested to have more of a burrows/hansen type winger so they could play their game...vrbata never jelled with bonino and became mired in a slump...

prust came here as rugged player to protect the younger players...they traded a headache for him...he did everything they got him for the first year...injuries slowed him down the second year and when healthy, was reluctant to play that style again..

bonino proved to be a good 3rd line centre in pittsburgh when flanked with 2 speedsters...due to bo not being ready to be a 2nd line centre, bones got the job..his foot speed didn't turn into success with vrbata on the 2nd line...

shinkaruk, never improved his defensive game and management couldn't see him playing a top six role and his defense didn't make a bottom six role that appealing either....so they traded him for a more ready defensive player in granlund who could kill penalties and be defensively responsible.

the organization lacked players in the 21 to 25 age range...they moved picks to try and change that ...getting baerschi, vey, etem, larson ...

benning picked up dorsett to bring his do whatever it takes to win attitude and play here...he has always stuck up for his team mates.

..contract aside, a good pick up..

our defense were getting pushed around since bieksa was dealt...sbisa was supposed to be some grit on the back end...he did provide that but was prone to give aways sometimes...

the jury is still out on sutter as he was injured much of last year...is he a 2nd or 3rd centre...i think until bo is ready to be the 2nd centre. sutter will play there..who will fit best with him..?

mccann has great potential, but to get a guy like gudbranson, you have to give something good back..and florida asked for mccann,

i see what benning was trying to do with each move he made...some worked, some didn't...i applaud what he was trying to do...

whatever length of time it takes to build a winner is how long it will take...jb and tl are on the job..

[Nucker 67]

11 hours ago, SaintPatrick33 said:

 

I was quite critical of the Kassian trade at the time, I kept wondering why they never gave him minutes because when he played with the Sedins that line was dynamite. Only afterwards when he crashed a truck into a tree did I realize what JB and the Sedins had been saying all along. I still like the guy and hope he gets it together, seems like he has been through some tough times at a young age. 

It'll be interesting to see how Kassian does with Lucic now on the team. We know Lucic likes to hang out at the clubs on occasion, and Lucic seems to be the type of player Kassian strives to be. Hope he's able to stay on the straight and narrow.

[Standing_Tall#37]

 I don't buy the injury excuse, if you pay attention to other teams they had bigger injuries than us. Ei; Pittsburgh missed Malkin for 25and Letang for 11. 

 

We're going through a transition phase pure and simple, every team will have a rough patch of 5-10 years. It's just worrisome if it lasts longer than 10 years.