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...man killed by police in Ottawa while being arrested


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http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/ottawa/siu-investigate-hilda-street-arrest-hospital-1.3694114

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A Somali-Canadian Ottawa man with mental health issues who was taken to hospital in critical condition on Sunday after police tried to arrest him has died from his injuries, his family said Monday.

 

The SIU says at around 9:30 a.m. on Sunday officers with the Ottawa Police Service were called to Wellington Street West and Fairmont Avenue, in downtown Ottawa, for reports of a man allegedly groping people at a coffee shop.

Police found a 37-year-old man, and shortly afterwards there was a "confrontation" outside the Hilda Street building, a few blocks away, according to the SIU.

The SIU has identified two officers as the subjects of their investigation and five officers as witnesses.

Family and neighbours of Abdi told CBC News he had a "mental capacity issue" and "mental health issues" but said he was a gentle soul.

'I've never seen something like that in my life'

Abdi's brother Abdirizaq Abdi told CBC News on Sunday that he was on the eighth floor of his building when a neighbour yelled that police were arresting his brother Abdirahman.

"I heard the screaming, and then I come out and I see my brother lying down, police hitting so badly. Like, I've never seen something like that in my life," Abdi said.

"All of them, they were on top of him. He was under [them] ... they were hitting like [he was] an enemy. I've never seen something like that."

Nimao Ali witnessed the incident and said she thought it should have been handled differently.

"I understand that police officers have a really hard job ... but there's times people have to use their common sense, and there's times people have to be sensitive to other people, and there's times that police officers — or anybody with guns and weapons — have to really consider: Is this person OK? Are they mentally ill? Are they running away? Are they threatening me?" she said.

 

...

Something's got to give.  Eisenhower saw this coming.  The military industrial complex has fully integrated into law enforcement.

 

"So is the very structure of our society. In the councils of government, we must guard against the acquisition of unwarranted influence, whether sought or unsought, by the military-industrial complex. The potential for the disastrous rise of misplaced power exists and will persist."

 

I would say it's "better" in Canada for sure, but there is a problem North America wide.

 

...anyways, I'm not trying to make a social commentary, I'm just saying we need changes.

 

EDIT:  This touches two chords with me, both the race and mental illness.  Police are often not equipped to handle mental illness.  VPD seems to be at the forefront.

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/british-columbia/vancouver-police-mental-health-strategy-shootings-use-of-force-1.3690866

 

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A sad situation for everyone involved.

 

Another sigh to the media as, really, the mental health issues are what made the situation here, not the fact that he is black.  But that doesn't get the headlines...

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Both sides of the story should be told before any judgement is passed about the conduct of the officers use of force. I'm not suggesting that officers don't use excessive force but I find it hard to believe that the man was being completely "gentle" for the police to subdue him in the way they did. It's tragic that the man died but sometimes force is needed to incapacitate people, even if it seems excessive. I don't know the facts and it's possible and likely excessive force was used but I will reserve judgement until all the facts are made.

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I look forward to the day when the media reports that a man was shot by police.

 

They never report Asian man, Hispanic man etc. because that doesn't sell. If we are all truly equal why would the media note the colour of a persons skin? Having said that now I'm starting to think saying person instead of man would be the best way for media to report that situation.

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13 minutes ago, JC2 said:

Both sides of the story should be told before any judgement is passed about the conduct of the officers use of force. I'm not suggesting that officers don't use excessive force but I find it hard to believe that the man was being completely "gentle" for the police to subdue him in the way they did. It's tragic that the man died but sometimes force is needed to incapacitate people, even if it seems excessive. I don't know the facts and it's possible and likely excessive force was used but I will reserve judgement until all the facts are made.

Yeah, and i'm sure you'd say that same thing if there was no video footage of that other guy from a few days ago that was shot while he was laying on the ground with his hands up with the young man sitting beside him. I do believe that there are a lot of decent cops out there, but there are some bad apples that are getting away with murder.

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7 minutes ago, Salacious Crumb said:

I look forward to the day when the media reports that a man was shot by police.

 

They never report Asian man, Hispanic man etc. because that doesn't sell. If we are all truly equal why would the media note the colour of a persons skin? Having said that now I'm starting to think saying person instead of man would be the best way for media to report that situation.

I agree.  I feel partly responsible with the title.  I'm changing it.

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4 minutes ago, The Weasel said:

Yeah, and i'm sure you'd say that same thing if there was no video footage of that other guy from a few days ago that was shot while he was laying on the ground with his hands up with the young man sitting beside him. I do believe that there are a lot of decent cops out there, but there are some bad apples that are getting away with murder.

As a matter of fact I would say the same thing because it is still unfair to judge a situation when you don't have all the information. In the case you are referring to there is actual evidence to prove the cops killed the man after being subdued.  In this situation we know the man was groping people, the police were called and shortly after the cops tackled him and hit him but we don't know what caused the police to use the force they did. Maybe he brandished a knife or some kind of weapon or tried to assault the police. The point is that until anyone should be judged all the information should be known. And for the record I hate cops who abuse their power and believe they should be held accountable for their actions in the same light as anyone else. If a cop commits murder then he should be tried and convicted the same sentence  as anyone else.

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38 minutes ago, Heretic said:

Maybe if people would show more respect for the law enforcement, they wouldn't have to use excessive force - or be afraid that some jack @ss with a gun is going to shoot them just because....

That would be a good start.  However the media now puts these stories front and center and with an obvious bias.  Guaranteed there is more to this story than what the media is reporting.

 

Sure there are bad cops out there but there are many more good cops out there.  Unfortunately the media has an agenda to glorify the bad cops these days. 

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47 minutes ago, Heretic said:

Maybe if people would show more respect for the law enforcement, they wouldn't have to use excessive force - or be afraid that some jack @ss with a gun is going to shoot them just because....

By definition, excessive force is something they don't HAVE to use.  If there weren't so many incidents of extreme police brutality such as this, or even if police officers were held accountable for their crimes and given real prison sentences instead of slaps on the wrists, people would show more respect for law enforcement.

 

For the record, I believe the majority of cops (as with every profession) are good people.  I've had police officers go above and beyond the call of duty to help me.  But the bad apples aren't getting rooted out.

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1 hour ago, Wilbur said:

A sad situation for everyone involved.

 

Another sigh to the media as, really, the mental health issues are what made the situation here, not the fact that he is black.  But that doesn't get the headlines...

How do you know the guy was black, and why should that matter anyway?  The man killed by police at the airport in Vancouver several years ago (with mental issues) was white.

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1 hour ago, Grapefruits said:

So according to this report.  He was just a gentle black man groping people.  When the Police showed up they all jumped on him and beat him to death. 

 

Did I get the anti Police narrative correct? 

The article certainly glosses over that part, and only gives the brother's account of what they did (and that only part way through the final arrest procedure). It'd probably be smart when choosing to post a thread about this kind of thing to try and get something with more detail on what actually happened - especially since there were apparently people there as witnesses.

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2 minutes ago, King Heffy said:

By definition, excessive force is something they don't HAVE to use.  If there weren't so many incidents of extreme police brutality such as this, or even if police officers were held accountable for their crimes and given real prison sentences instead of slaps on the wrists, people would show more respect for law enforcement.

 

For the record, I believe the majority of cops (as with every profession) are good people.  I've had police officers go above and beyond the call of duty to help me.  But the bad apples aren't getting rooted out.

Like this case? .............

 

Miami officer was trying to shoot patient, not unarmed man: police union

Latest police-involved shooting highlights troubles with spotting autism traits, advocates say

 

Video provided to the Miami Herald, taken moments before the shooting, shows Charles Kinsey lying in the middle of the street with his hands up. Sitting next to him is an autistic man who was playing with a toy truck.

 

Video provided to the Miami Herald, taken moments before the shooting, shows Charles Kinsey lying in the middle of the street with his hands up. Sitting next to him is an autistic man who was playing with a toy truck.

 

The four North Miami police officers who aimed rifles at a black therapist and an autistic man in the middle of an intersection were responding to a 911 call about a suicidal man with a gun. The 27-year-old autistic man sat cross-legged. He yelled. He didn't obey commands to lie down with his hands up, as the therapist was doing, and he fidgeted with a metal object.

 

One of the officers, Jonathan Aledda, thought the disabled man was about to shoot his therapist Charles Kinsey, who was trying to coax him back to a nearby group home, the officer's union said. The officer fired three shots at the disabled man because he thought he was a threat, but he missed and accidentally struck Kinsey in the leg.

 

The metal object turned out to be a toy truck and there was no suicide threat. The Florida Department of Law Enforcement has taken over the investigation.

 

Meanwhile, a police commander was suspended for allegedly fabricating information about the shooting.

 

Monday's shooting was the latest in a violent month of police-involved shootings in the U.S. Five officers were killed in Dallas two weeks ago and three law enforcement officers were gunned down Sunday in Baton Rouge, La.

 

Before those shootings, a black man, Alton Sterling, 37, was fatally shot during a scuffle with two white officers at a convenience store there. In Minnesota, 32-year-old Philando Castile, who was also black, was shot to death during a traffic stop.

 

Cellphone videos captured Sterling's killing and the aftermath of Castile's shooting, prompting nationwide protests over the treatment of black people by police.

 

But the Florida case also highlights the difficulties officers have in identifying people with autism. The characteristics of autism range from mild quirks or obsessions, to people who can't communicate, yell and occasionally become violent.

 

National groups such as the Autism Society and Autism Speaks help train officers, paramedics and other first responders to recognize autistic traits.

 

"This is not Down syndrome — autism is not a disorder that is visual," said Teresa Becerrra, executive director of the Autism Society's Florida operation.

A first amendment expression area is set up outside the North Miami police headquarters building on Friday, July 22, 2016. (Wilfredo Lee/Associated Press)

Becerra said she watched cellphone video of the moments before the shooting and believed she probably would have recognized that Kinsey's client was autistic. "But I have been highly trained," she said.

 

She said she understands why police may have missed the signals, even though the therapist said he told officers the man was autistic and that he had a toy truck.

 

For 10 years, she has been educating South Florida officers with the help of her 20-year-old autistic son Robert, whom she said is much like the man in the video in that he can be loud and not follow orders.

 

"When Robert is not walking on his tip toes and not flapping his hands, we look just like a mom and her 20-year-old son walking down the street. But give it three minutes and they will learn that it can be very hairy being in public with my son," she said.

 

City Manager Larry Spring Jr. said Friday that Comm. Emile Hollant is suspended without pay for allegedly fabricating information about the shooting, but he declined to give specifics.

 

Aledda, whose race hasn't been released, has been placed on paid administrative leave.

 

Pensacola police Sgt. Jimmy Donohoe, who also teaches classes for the Autism Society, said officers shouldn't be expected to be "roadside clinical evaluators" — but there are characteristics to recognize. He has a 23-year-old son who is autistic.

 

Like Becerra's son, he said people with autism often flap their hands when upset or repeat words that have been spoken to them.

"The officer might say, 'Put your hands on the car' and the person will respond 'Put your hands on the car,'" he said.

 

If an officer doesn't recognize that behaviour as autism, he could think the person is talking back. The situation could escalate and some people with autism react violently when touched, Donohoe said.

 

"One of the things we stress is officer safety. In these instances, they need to be more aware that the person is more likely to react spontaneously, even if unprovoked. You are dealing with the unexpected," he said.

 

Donohoe said he tells officers and firefighters that their uniforms can be scary and trigger an emotional meltdown. He said he tells them to stay calm and slow down their actions, realizing it takes people with autism longer to process information.

 

"By being a little more patient, the situation will work itself through," he said.

 

Becerra said she suggests that officers hand the autistic person a cellphone or other device.

"Our kids love electronics," she said.

 

http://www.cbc.ca/news/world/miami-officer-trying-to-shoot-man-with-autism-instead-1.3690779

*************************************************

 

Black man is laying on his back, legs spread, with his hands in the air. Explains the other man has autism and he is his caretaker. Tells the cops the patient is holding a toy truck.

 

Officer fires three shots hitting the caretaker once in the leg. He then asks why he was shot. Cop replies "I don't know".

 

Later claims he was trying to shoot the other man who had been verbally identified by his caretaker as being autistic.

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47 minutes ago, The Weasel said:

Yeah, and i'm sure you'd say that same thing if there was no video footage of that other guy from a few days ago that was shot while he was laying on the ground with his hands up with the young man sitting beside him. I do believe that there are a lot of decent cops out there, but there are some bad apples that are getting away with murder.

So do you know which is the case in this situation based on the information we have, or have you already made up your opinion based on what little evidence there was provided?

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3 hours ago, elvis15 said:

The article certainly glosses over that part, and only gives the brother's account of what they did (and that only part way through the final arrest procedure). It'd probably be smart when choosing to post a thread about this kind of thing to try and get something with more detail on what actually happened - especially since there were apparently people there as witnesses.

I've heard a few of the witnesses. I think they said that there were 2 cops that were a part of it and 5 other cops that witnessed it so I'm sure the cops' account will be extremely honest. They would never change the story at all. 

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