[Articles] Canucks Day on NHL.com

[LaBamba]

5 minutes ago, Eastcoast meets Westcoast said:

Why 5 years ago?  He was 19 and needed seasoning. He is now entering his prime years.  From reading your posts in the Subban thread, Gudbranson sounds exactly like the player you want. 

 

A 20lbs heavier McCann would be nice, but Gudbranson fills a major gap on the roster. McCann is still very unproven. 

 

Hammer would have been great.  JB must really believe in Hutton.  Hammer would have been a great mentor and steady partner for Trymakin. If you dislike the Sbisa signing, I can see that. If it comes down to Sbisa vs Hammer, it's a no brainer. Hutton vs Hammer, not so clear. 

 

 

Sorry as in 5 years ago I meant a guy like him, when we were sick good. I actually like Sbisa and believe he has a pile of upside. 

[Canuck Surfer]

3 hours ago, NUCKER67 said:

How in God's name does Bergevan beat out Benning? Or Chiarelli trading Hall for Larson. Noticed TOR isn't on this list. Let me guess, top 5? I guess I shouldn't be surprised they've ranked the Canucks last.

They expect teams to dismantle.  ie trade the Sedins and Edler for youth.  Don't have the cajones to say it.

 

Not directly at least?

 

 

I personally buy into trying to be competitive. The essence of sport is to compete!  I have no problem signing Louie Ericsson. Does NOT mean we have to go all in! Selling youth for rentals? Just means we believe guys don't develop in a losing environment. I applaud deals that landed Gudbranson, the draft pick that returned soon to be prime aged players McCann (ergo Gudbranson), Sutter, Baertschi. These are also players who will help us for a 5 to 10 year period > Far longer than the average draft pick yields... I also accept, even where they did not, or may not, work out the experimental acquisitions of Larsen, Vey, Clendenning. Remember, Baertschi was a similar experiment!  

 

Even Benning is self reflective.  From the article:  "You need that age group from 22 to 28, those are players I feel you can win with. Some of the moves we made are going to work out really nice and some other moves didn't work out, but that's what we had to try to do to fill in that age group."  By next year Gudbranson, Sutter, Bo, Baertschi, hopefully Boeser, Tanev, hopefully Rodin, & Etem will be in that bracket.

 

Bergevin is dismantling I guess. I wonder why he does not get their support?

[Phat Fingers]

2 minutes ago, LaBamba said:

Sorry as in 5 years ago I meant a guy like him, when we were sick good. I actually like Sbisa and believe he has a pile of upside. 

We had a guy like Gudbranson, but he got concussed and wasn't re signed. MG never fixed the hole that Mitchell left, Erhoff left, that Salo left. He also never drafted a defender in the 1st round in 8 years.  

 

Better late than never?  

 

[Phat Fingers]

3 minutes ago, Canuck Surfer said:

They expect teams to dismantle.  ie trade the Sedins and Edler for youth.  Don't have the cajones to say it.

 

Not directly at least?

 

 

I personally buy into trying to be competitive. The essence of sport is to compete!  I have no problem signing Louie Ericsson. Does NOT mean we have to go all in! Selling youth for rentals? Just means we believe guys don't develop in a losing environment. I applaud deals that landed Gudbranson, the draft pick that returned soon to be prime aged players McCann (ergo Gudbranson), Sutter, Baertschi. These are also players who will help us for a 5 to 10 year period > Far longer than the average draft pick yields... I also accept, even where they did not, or may not, work out the experimental acquisitions of Larsen, Vey, Clendenning. Remember, Baertschi was a similar experiment!  

 

Even Benning is self reflective.  From the article:  "You need that age group from 22 to 28, those are players I feel you can win with. Some of the moves we made are going to work out really nice and some other moves didn't work out, but that's what we had to try to do to fill in that age group."  By next year Gudbranson, Sutter, Bo, Baertschi, hopefully Boeser, Tanev, hopefully Rodin, & Etem will be in that bracket.

 

Bergevin is dismantling I guess. I wonder why he does not get their support?

Always look forward to your posts Surfer, even when I was a lurker. 

 

 

[LaBamba]

3 minutes ago, Eastcoast meets Westcoast said:

We had a guy like Gudbranson, but he got concussed and wasn't re signed. MG never fixed the hole that Mitchell left, Erhoff left, that Salo left. He also never drafted a defender in the 1st round in 8 years.  

 

Better late than never?  

 

By the time Horvat and Boeser hit their prime Gudbranson will be in Europe.  

[Honky Cat]

2 minutes ago, Eastcoast meets Westcoast said:

We had a guy like Gudbranson, but he got concussed and wasn't re signed. MG never fixed the hole that Mitchell left, Erhoff left, that Salo left. He also never drafted a defender in the 1st round in 8 years.  

 

Better late than never?  

 

Exactly...Until the back end is sorted out (there's good reason to be optimistic for the future),it doesn't matter how many elite forwards we acquire...Edmonton was the poster boy for that approach.

[Canuck Surfer]

51 minutes ago, Fantomex said:

The amount of picks a team has is moot if you can't develop them properly in a competitive and winning environment. IE EDMONTON ... As DeNiro said, Virtanen, Tryamkin, Sutter, Gudbranson, Pedan, Etem, Boeser are all bigger bodies that play hard, and can skate. You can't just command draft picks in exchange for older, declining players. You can't just draft guys and expect them to instantly be able to contribute at a high level. These things take time. Benning has traded picks for immediate help, and most of those players are going to carry us through this "retooling" stage. The picks he traded wouldn't be coming to help for a number of years, if at all. Gudbranson and Sutter will help in the now. 

Pretty fair!

 

What is the point of drafting a generation of blue chip players, ie Edmonton, two really dating back to Gagner et al, if they just wilter away crushed by unhealthy competition?

48 minutes ago, Eastcoast meets Westcoast said:

JB did state that he used those 2nd's to speed up the process by taking guys in the 22-24 age range. Mixed record, but he indicated at the draft that he does not see a need to lose 2nd's moving forward. 

I do like that he is making his mission more clear. That we are now closer to having filled the aged gap & will concentrate on keeping his picks moving forward.

[Canuck Surfer]

4 minutes ago, Eastcoast meets Westcoast said:

Always look forward to your posts Surfer, even when I was a lurker. 

 

 

Cheers man!

[Phat Fingers]

Just now, LaBamba said:

By the time Horvat and Boeser hit their prime Gudbranson will be in Europe.  

Whaaaa?  Europe?  Gudbranson has at least 5-7 years of solid NHL years in front of him.  Boeser and Horvat will be in their prime by then. 

 

Plus with Guds around, they may not get pummelled every second game, especially Horvat. I expect that having some larger mobile guys paired with fleet puck movers like Hutton, Juolevi and .... Subban (can't resist;) will make our centres less venerable by slowing the for check. 

 

 

[DeNiro]

7 minutes ago, LaBamba said:

By the time Horvat and Boeser hit their prime Gudbranson will be in Europe.  

Lol. Gudbranson just turned 24.

 

He's just entering his prime for a defenseman. Calm yourself.

[LaBamba]

2 minutes ago, DeNiro said:

Lol. Gudbranson just turned 24.

 

He's just entering his prime for a defenseman. Calm yourself.

 

5 minutes ago, Eastcoast meets Westcoast said:

Whaaaa?  Europe?  Gudbranson has at least 5-7 years of solid NHL years in front of him.  Boeser and Horvat will be in their prime by then. 

 

Plus with Guds around, they may not get pummelled every second game, especially Horvat. I expect that having some larger mobile guys paired with fleet puck movers like Hutton, Juolevi and .... Subban (can't resist;) will make our centres less venerable by slowing the for check. 

 

 

 

Hahaha ok.....

 

y'all got me.

[JeremyCuddles]

4 hours ago, NUCKER67 said:

Okay, maybe, but the Oilers still don't have a real #1-2D. That's all Chia had to do with all of those assets they have, and he couldn't.

 

That's all? How often do top 2 d-men get traded? And how expensive is that? Legit top 2s. Subban is one, got traded for another top 2 d-man though.

[Canuck Surfer]

I also see something else that was only touched on in the 30 / 30 clips with Rosen. And not in full context.

 

Others have also broached the subject in this and other threads. But its worth highlighting!  

 

The Canucks became a significantly better team in their ability to match up physically this past year. They mentioned and we all know about adding the size Gudbranson & Tryamkin bring.  Credit, they also noted Tanev & Edler are also 6'2" but suggested we would also be physical in our top 4.  I'm not sure I but that? Allthough Geudbranson helps. But in a bigger picture...

 

> Guys like Etem and Virtanen add significant weight with outstanding speed to our line up.  Hansen always had big wheels with grit. Even without size it has a big impact on the game. Burrows used to have it & still tries... Dorsett has it in spades, albeit only acceptable discipline and game smarts relegate him to acceptable for 4th line. It still a physical body! Sutter covers huge territory, Bo has big shoulders and skates well. Now we have added crease clearing brutality in Tree & Gudbranson. Sbisa is no shrinking violet. 

 

I believe we could use one more significant match up body up front?

 

But what it does do, and even thos big D have speed, is create space for talent players. There is a ton of guys big and fast enough to play. And make it hard on guys like Perry or McDavid. And keep up. 

 

> Then we have the next tier of guys with wicked speed & deceptive talent. Baertschi, Stecher, Rodin, Larsen, Juolevi is coming and also has great height and reach.  As much as its not a great example in all respects, Arizona had that size and feist to be competitive in players like Vermette & Hanzal. The point? Reider in particular, useless in Edmonton, is highly effective ducking between all that size and speed. So is more sublimely skilled Domi who might have been squished & rendered useless playing on the Nucks circa 2014. Fabbri wove pretty seamlessly inbetween the huge bodies in St Louis. Krug and the rat get space in Boston. Even Burrows, 8 lbs heavier than Zuc got beat up by Kreider. Because they use size and speed to make space for guys like Zucarello whom Burrows was not allowed to abuse. Marty St Louis needed space. Blending big athletes these smaller guys get the chance to be effective?

 

I believe we have some under rate talent that may excel this year because we will offer them this better environment!

 

I believe our improvement in size, speed & athleticism has gone under the radar!

 

 

[DeNiro]

2 minutes ago, N7Nucks said:

That's all? How often do top 2 d-men get traded? And how expensive is that? Legit top 2s. Subban is one, got traded for another top 2 d-man though.

The Oilers needed to get in on Seth Jones while they could.

 

He's the closest thing to a young top 2 available and Chiarelli missed out on him. Instead he overpaid on guys like Reinhart and Larsson.

[oldnews]

2 hours ago, LaBamba said:

 

Lovers gonna love, LaBamba.

[oldnews]

2 hours ago, LaBamba said:

When Burke was doing the same thing in Toronto (avoiding a rebuild) the media lost their collective minds.  I would almost say it was 10x more severe. At no point did anyone buy into Burke's rebuild on the fly stratigy

SportsLeafs
Maple Leafs: Canada's best hockey team
The club is the highest in the standings among the Canadian teams, that’s a fact.

The Maple Leafs keep on winning and can boast they are the best hockey team in Canada at this point in the season. The Canucks aren't far behind, and the two teams clash Saturday night in Vancouver.
The Maple Leafs keep on winning and can boast they are the best hockey team in Canada at this point in the season. The Canucks aren't far behind, and the two teams clash Saturday night in Vancouver.  (RICHARD LAUTENS / TORONTO STAR) | ORDER THIS PHOTO  

By KIM NURSALLStaff Reporter
Fri., Nov. 1, 2013
It’s been a long time since the Maple Leafs were the best at anything, but right now, the Leafs are Canada’s best hockey team.

The club is the highest in the standings among the Canadian teams, that’s a fact.

 

https://www.thestar.com/sports/leafs/2013/11/01/maple_leafs_canadas_best_hockey_team.html

 

 

[oldnews]

2 hours ago, kingofsurrey said:

Canucks are becoming the Calgary Flames Circa 2010.

 

LOL.

Just a horrible analogy that has been exposed as such repeatedly on these boards.

Have a look at the Flames prospect pool in that era and get back to us.  Absolutely no comparison to be made.

 

 

The Flames Cup run was in 2004. A full five years later they still did not have any talent whatsoever on their roster under the age of 25. Here's their 2009 roster.

http://www.hockey-reference.com/teams/CGY/2010.html

 

Backlund, Dawes, and Phaneuf at 24 whom they dealt midway.

 

The Canucks are 5 years removed from 2011 - and have Horvat, Baertschi, Virtanen, Etem, Granlund, Gaunce, Hutton, Gudbranson, Tryamkin all on their roster, let alone the younger prospects in their system - Boeser, Demko, Juolevi et al.  They also have guys like Tanev, Sbisa, Sutter, Markstrom - who've just graduated that group/demographic.

 

Added to that fact, here's the Calgary Flames prospect pool five years after their Cup run in 2009:

 

Lance Bouma

Brett Palin

Keith Aullie

Greg Nemisz

Ryley Grantham

Kris Chucko

John Negrin

TJ Brodie

Jason Jaffray

Anton Stralman

John Armstrong

Cam Cunning

Gaelen Patterson

Michael Backlund

Spencer Bennett

Hugo Carpentier

Brad Cole

Carsen Germyn

Kyle Greentree

Ryan Howse

Josh Myers

Leland Irving

Garth Murray

David Van der Gulik

J.D Watt

David Shantz

Matt Keetley

Daniel Spence

 

Four full years later in 2013 they finally stopped spending futures / buying assets at the deadline trying to prop up a core that hadn't made the playoffs through that entire stretch.  

 

 If the Canucks had been selling futures all this time - never made the playoffs, and continued to until 2018/19, we'd have the makings of an analogy.

 

That is the Flames timeline - from 2004 to 2013, with no youth and selling assets to buy playoff pipe dreams until there was scarcely any value left in their core.

 

The Canucks are  light years ahead of where they were in terms of futures in their system, and years ahead in the sense they've been moving aging core players - from Luongo and Kesler, to Bieksa, Garrison... They simply haven't torn it down to the extent of the hapless Laffs.  

The Flames waited so long that Kiprusoff retired before they could rent him for a mid round pick.

Iginla, their franchise player - they got a late pick and b prospects for him.

And that was under circumstances where they had next to no futures.

This team by comparison - has a core - and a relative wealth of futures.  The drama and panic revolves around single assets - like 'where are we gonna get our future 1C?'

 

And yet, despite all that, as bleak as it looked for Calgary, look where the Flames are today - have a fairly bright future nevertheless - tank-fail aside.   

 

But this analogy - of the Canucks to the 2010 Flames - is just horrible and holds no water whatsoever.

[Alflives]

Just now, oldnews said:

Just a horrible analogy that has been exposed as such repeatedly on these boards.

Have a look at the Flames prospect pool in that era and get back to us.  Absolutely no comparison to be made.

I love the Canucks too, but we BADLY need elite forward skill to replace the Twins.  Can you name a team that rebuilt on the fly (like JB has openly stated he's doing) and won the Cup in the last ten years?  

[LaBamba]

19 minutes ago, oldnews said:

SportsLeafs
Maple Leafs: Canada's best hockey team
The club is the highest in the standings among the Canadian teams, that’s a fact.

The Maple Leafs keep on winning and can boast they are the best hockey team in Canada at this point in the season. The Canucks aren't far behind, and the two teams clash Saturday night in Vancouver.
The Maple Leafs keep on winning and can boast they are the best hockey team in Canada at this point in the season. The Canucks aren't far behind, and the two teams clash Saturday night in Vancouver.  (RICHARD LAUTENS / TORONTO STAR) | ORDER THIS PHOTO  

By KIM NURSALLStaff Reporter
Fri., Nov. 1, 2013
It’s been a long time since the Maple Leafs were the best at anything, but right now, the Leafs are Canada’s best hockey team.

The club is the highest in the standings among the Canadian teams, that’s a fact.

 

https://www.thestar.com/sports/leafs/2013/11/01/maple_leafs_canadas_best_hockey_team.html

 

 

In that micro window they played good hockey. This is also the Toronto star. If you looked at the big picture this would be an abnormality. Nice find tho. 

[DeNiro]

12 minutes ago, Alflives said:

I love the Canucks too, but we BADLY need elite forward skill to replace the Twins.  Can you name a team that rebuilt on the fly (like JB has openly stated he's doing) and won the Cup in the last ten years?  

We're not going to have elite talent ready for when the Sedins retire, people need to accept that. There's going to be a few years of grinding it out before we start to replace them.

 

It's like when the West Coast Express started winding down, the Sedins weren't immediately there to replace them. It took a few years of them developing into that role before they were ready to take the reigns. The same thing will happen with whoever the next core ends up being.

 

People really need to stop writing off guys like Horvat and Boeser as potential top level talent though. If they keep working hard and developing properly its not that unlikely that they end up becoming those guys.