Art Vandelay Posted August 13, 2016 Share Posted August 13, 2016 20 minutes ago, Alflives said: Like this athletic specimen? nice try though! Is your argument that Pro-Golfers are out of shape or that they aren't elite athletes? You showed me an out of shape guy... I can show you Dustin Byfuglien, or even Stanley Cup Champion Phil Kessel to prove that hockey doesn't have elite athletes... but like your argument here, that is ludicrous. (To add, you are showing a European Tour golfer who only plays in the PGA when he gets a sponsorship exemption or placement exemption) I was responding to someone who said he doesn't get why golf is in the Olympics. I don't need to argue with an "alien" on whether or not some of the best golfers in the world are elite athletes. To me, that is arguing for or against facts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brad Marchand Posted August 13, 2016 Share Posted August 13, 2016 People who complain about golf being an Olympic sport should also complain about shooting, archery, and equestrian being Olympic sports. Besides, who really cares? No one is forcing you to watch it and no one is forcing you to pay for it, either. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alflives Posted August 13, 2016 Share Posted August 13, 2016 2 minutes ago, Art Vandelay said: Is your argument that Pro-Golfers are out of shape or that they aren't elite athletes? You showed me an out of shape guy... I can show you Dustin Byfuglien, or even Stanley Cup Champion Phil Kessel to prove that hockey doesn't have elite athletes... but like your argument here, that is ludicrous. (To add, you are showing a European Tour golfer who only plays in the PGA when he gets a sponsorship exemption or placement exemption) I was responding to someone who said he doesn't get why golf is in the Olympics. I don't need to argue with an "alien" on whether or not some of the best golfers in the world are elite athletes. To me, that is arguing for or against facts. Golf being in the Olypics is an I don't care category. The Olympic events were intended to replicate skills needed in battle. If you believe Golfers are elite athletes that's fine. I'm certain some of them are. However, there are top golfers, of which Himinez is and was, who do not look athletic. Explain how in the heck an almost sixty year old Tom Watson finishes second in the biggest tournament- The Open? He beat, over four rounds, all but one of these elite (young) athletes. When will we see a 60 year old win the 100 meters? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sonoman Posted August 13, 2016 Share Posted August 13, 2016 1 hour ago, Alflives said: Let's not pretend golf is a sport. It's an activity. There are several Olympic activities, like shooting, sailing, and equestrian events, where the competitors have a skill, but aren't necessarily elite athletes. I somewhat agree with shooting and horse riding ( I think the horse should get the medal instead of some extra oats), but I'm betting a certain fury alien has never competively raced on a small sail boat before. It's very intense and a great work out. Some of the larger boats may have bodies for "rail meat" only, but on smaller boats, everybody works. . Strategy and a nose for wind is also huge in sailing. Not saying all sailors are elite athletes, but the ones racing in Rio are. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alflives Posted August 13, 2016 Share Posted August 13, 2016 5 minutes ago, sonoman said: I somewhat agree with shooting and horse riding ( I think the horse should get the medal instead of some extra oats), but I'm betting a certain fury alien has never competively raced on a small sail boat before. It's very intense and a great work out. Some of the larger boats may have bodies for "rail meat" only, but on smaller boats, everybody works. . Strategy and a nose for wind is also huge in sailing. Not saying all sailors are elite athletes, but the ones racing in Rio are. Okay. To be honest, I didn't know sailing was in the Olympics. Are we good at it? Could we medal? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ShakyWalton Posted August 13, 2016 Share Posted August 13, 2016 U.S. Soccer president Sunil Gulati isn't pleased with Hope Solo. The American goalkeeper made waves Friday after the world's top-ranked women's team was bounced from Rio 2016 courtesy of a stunning shootout loss, calling the victorious Swedish side "a bunch of cowards" for what she perceived to be a lack of ambition during the match. Speaking with Grant Wahl of Sports Illustrated, Gulati demonized the bitter remarks. "While we are all very disappointed with the results of the match, Hope‘s post-game comments were highly inappropriate and not in line with the expectations of U.S. Soccer or the ideals of the Olympic movement," Gulati said. IOC spokesman Mark Adams echoed those sentiments, describing the comments as "disappointing." Swedish boss Pia Sundhage, meanwhile, was far more curt when addressing the opinion of her former shot-stopper - with whom she endured a contentious relationship while in charge of the USWNT. "I don't give a crap," Sundhage told reporters of Solo's verbal jab. "I'm going to Rio, she's going home." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Art Vandelay Posted August 13, 2016 Share Posted August 13, 2016 1 minute ago, Alflives said: Golf being in the Olypics is an I don't care category. The Olympic events were intended to replicate skills needed in battle. If you believe Golfers are elite athletes that's fine. I'm certain some of them are. However, there are top golfers, of which Himinez is and was, who do not look athletic. Explain how in the heck an almost sixty year old Tom Watson finishes second in the biggest tournament- The Open? He beat, over four rounds, all but one of these elite (young) athletes. When will we see a 60 year old win the 100 meters? "Himinez" was never a top golfer... he doesn't even have a PGA tour win(WGC are not sanctioned PGA events). Again, Jimenez was a European Tour golfer. The fact you think golf and 100m dash, can be compared for longevity in sport, shows how unaware you are about golf. Players who are consistently straight off the tee and have good short games win the British open almost every time. Watson Does well at the open every year because he is the best short game player of all time(only Ballesteros or Player are even close) and he has one of the best FIR ratings over his career. Old age is not much of a factor in that part of golf; technique and "hands" are pretty much the only factor. He has 5 British open wins for a reason. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alflives Posted August 13, 2016 Share Posted August 13, 2016 4 minutes ago, Art Vandelay said: "Himinez" was never a top golfer... he doesn't even have a PGA tour win(WGC are not sanctioned PGA events). Again, Jimenez was a European Tour golfer. The fact you think golf and 100m dash, can be compared for longevity in sport, shows how unaware you are about golf. Players who are consistently straight off the tee and have good short games win the British open almost every time. Watson Does well at the open every year because he is the best short game player of all time(only Ballesteros or Player are even close) and he has one of the best FIR ratings over his career. Old age is not much of a factor in that part of golf; technique and "hands" are pretty much the only factor. He has 5 British open wins for a reason. So you don't equate athleticism with aging? I appreciate the skill and talent top golfers have. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cerridwen Posted August 13, 2016 Share Posted August 13, 2016 15 minutes ago, ShakyWalton said: U.S. Soccer president Sunil Gulati isn't pleased with Hope Solo. The American goalkeeper made waves Friday after the world's top-ranked women's team was bounced from Rio 2016 courtesy of a stunning shootout loss, calling the victorious Swedish side "a bunch of cowards" for what she perceived to be a lack of ambition during the match. Speaking with Grant Wahl of Sports Illustrated, Gulati demonized the bitter remarks. "While we are all very disappointed with the results of the match, Hope‘s post-game comments were highly inappropriate and not in line with the expectations of U.S. Soccer or the ideals of the Olympic movement," Gulati said. IOC spokesman Mark Adams echoed those sentiments, describing the comments as "disappointing." Swedish boss Pia Sundhage, meanwhile, was far more curt when addressing the opinion of her former shot-stopper - with whom she endured a contentious relationship while in charge of the USWNT. "I don't give a crap," Sundhage told reporters of Solo's verbal jab. "I'm going to Rio, she's going home." And Pia Sundhage got the very best last words of all!!!! Honestly, given Solo's previous bad behavior in soccer and her distinct lack of 'role-model' behavior OFF the soccer pitch itself, she should never have been dressed in a US National Soccer jersey to begin with. She epitomizes the stereotype of 'ugly American' to the Nth degree. Solo shouldn't just get to skate by on her remarks after the game with just 'bad' media coverage, either. She is an embarrassment to the US as an athlete representing them, an embarrassment to Women's Olympic Soccer and an embarrassment to all National Soccer teams playing the sport at an elite level. There should be repercussions. Her time as a member of the US National Women's Soccer team should be done and over once and for all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sonoman Posted August 13, 2016 Share Posted August 13, 2016 13 minutes ago, Alflives said: Okay. To be honest, I didn't know sailing was in the Olympics. Are we good at it? Could we medal? Unfortunately, probably not. Last medal was 2004. Sailing is very expensive and there is not very much support for Canada's Olympic sailors. It's a case of " what have you done for me lately" . Boats can cost upwards of 30 K and ideally you need two, one for local training and one for the actual regatta. Imagine the logistics of trying to ship ( pun definitely intended) a boat from Canada to Rio. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alflives Posted August 13, 2016 Share Posted August 13, 2016 2 minutes ago, sonoman said: Unfortunately, probably not. Last medal was 2004. Sailing is very expensive and there is not very much support for Canada's Olympic sailors. It's a case of " what have you done for me lately" . Boats can cost upwards of 30 K and ideally you need two, one for local training and one for the actual regatta. Imagine the logistics of trying to ship ( pun definitely intended) a boat from Canada to Rio. I thought we were a rich country? Maybe that's an event we could spend dollars on, and dominate? Don't we spend big money on bobsleigh technology and training? Maybe take the funding from all those male teams that don't win, and put it into girl's sports - including sailing? If racing beavers was in the Olympics, I'd cheer for the one in the Canadian jersey, as would most Canadians. We just want to see us win, no? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Art Vandelay Posted August 13, 2016 Share Posted August 13, 2016 19 minutes ago, Alflives said: So you don't equate athleticism with aging? I appreciate the skill and talent top golfers have. Athleticism to me, is the culmination of skills(hand-eye, stick handling, shot aim..etc.), naturally existing abilities of the body(fast/slow twitch muscles, flexibility, Oxygen intake..etc.), conditioning, intelligence, muscle strength, and other things that I'm sure we haven't been able to measure yet (like the "it" factor). In my opinion, the major parts in athleticism that golf uses for short game and tee shot accuracy, are not affected nearly as much as other sports by age. Other parts are severely affected, however what makes the British open so hard is the fescue and the greens. Relatively everything else at those courses are ordinary. In other words, Watson, in my opinion, has the specific skills, technique, intelligence, and the "it" factor to do well at the British open. However, I don't want to say he should be winning those tournaments. What he is doing is somewhat miraculous since he is so old. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alflives Posted August 13, 2016 Share Posted August 13, 2016 Just now, Art Vandelay said: Athleticism to me, is the culmination of skills(hand-eye, stick handling, shot aim..etc.), naturally existing abilities of the body(fast/slow twitch muscles, flexibility, Oxygen intake..etc.), conditioning, intelligence, muscle strength, and other things that I'm sure we haven't been able to measure yet (like the "it" factor). In my opinion, the major parts in athleticism that golf uses for short game and tee shot accuracy, are not affected nearly as much as other sports by age. Other parts are severely affected, however what makes the British open so hard is the fescue and the greens. Relatively everything else at those courses are ordinary. I accept your expertise in this area. How do you explain the use of different equipment? Is there not a mechanical advantage? I see golf like skiing and bobsleigh, where technology can mask lesser skill. Maybe all the golfers should have to use the same equipment? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alflives Posted August 13, 2016 Share Posted August 13, 2016 If there is already volleyball, why is there beach volleyball? Are there any volleyball players out there who can explain the skill differences? How come our top volleyball players don't play on the beach team? I heard we have a couple guys who can spike from 12 feet high. Wouldn't they win gold on the beach? Why don't we do that? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Art Vandelay Posted August 13, 2016 Share Posted August 13, 2016 I agree. Technology is making golf a lot easier but I also think because putting is so hard and so important that it will never make a average player good. The new Driver's and Hybrids are basically impossible to hit bad. I hope they ban them from competitive golf. To me they are like that new curling broom technology that changed the game, so they banned them in competition. Personally, I think they should make drivers have a universal weight and degree face, and have anything above 17.5 degrees be Irons (Blades preferable, but Half/Cavs are fine, maybe). Changing those two things would make a lot of golfers worse and also stop the ridiculousness of having 550yard par 4's. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RUPERTKBD Posted August 13, 2016 Share Posted August 13, 2016 23 hours ago, ShakyWalton said: to both...with the men its a talent thing to me..we need to get some players that can actually play on the world stage..the women already do. To be fair, (and I'm talking about Soccer and Rugby here, as well as a few other sports) many of these competitions are relatively new to women. Canada's male soccer and Rugby players have many years of catching up to do, while the women more of less started on equal footing. I haven't seen anything about it today, but don't we have a male medal threat in the pool? 1500 meters, I think it was? 1 hour ago, Alflives said: Golf being in the Olypics is an I don't care category. The Olympic events were intended to replicate skills needed in battle. If you believe Golfers are elite athletes that's fine. I'm certain some of them are. However, there are top golfers, of which Himinez is and was, who do not look athletic. Explain how in the heck an almost sixty year old Tom Watson finishes second in the biggest tournament- The Open? He beat, over four rounds, all but one of these elite (young) athletes. When will we see a 60 year old win the 100 meters? I understand your point Alf, but really it's clear that you know next to nothing about golf. Art is absolutely right. At some point in their lives, everyone who disses golf should hit the range and see how far they can hit a 7-iron. Usually after they try it, they will be mystified at how anyone could possibly hit one 200 yards, which pro golfers do on a regular basis. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ShakyWalton Posted August 13, 2016 Share Posted August 13, 2016 2 minutes ago, RUPERTKBD said: To be fair, (and I'm talking about Soccer and Rugby here, as well as a few other sports) many of these competitions are relatively new to women. Canada's male soccer and Rugby players have many years of catching up to do, while the women more of less started on equal footing. I haven't seen anything about it today, but don't we have a male medal threat in the pool? 1500 meters, I think it was? I understand your point Alf, but really it's clear that you know next to nothing about golf. Art is absolutely right. At some point in their lives, everyone who disses golf should hit the range and see how far they can hit a 7-iron. Usually after they try it, they will be mystified at how anyone could possibly hit one 200 yards, which pro golfers do on a regular basis. Ryan Cochrane in the 1500 and the 4x100 womens medley..Penny again in that. The women have Sinclair who is one of the sports all time greats...the men dont have that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alflives Posted August 13, 2016 Share Posted August 13, 2016 1 minute ago, RUPERTKBD said: To be fair, (and I'm talking about Soccer and Rugby here, as well as a few other sports) many of these competitions are relatively new to women. Canada's male soccer and Rugby players have many years of catching up to do, while the women more of less started on equal footing. I haven't seen anything about it today, but don't we have a male medal threat in the pool? 1500 meters, I think it was? I understand your point Alf, but really it's clear that you know next to nothing about golf. Art is absolutely right. At some point in their lives, everyone who disses golf should hit the range and see how far they can hit a 7-iron. Usually after they d, they will be mystified at how anyone could possibly hit one 200 yards, which pro golfers do on a regular basis. I just got back from the airport. I borrowed a 7 iron, and it went on forever! explain Himenez, Cabrara, Daly, Stadler, and the host of out of shape, overweight, cigar smoking, scotch drinking (while they play) top players. And I know there are A LOT more of these guys, who regularly go out and beat the flat bellies. Are these previously mentioned guys superior athletes? I don't mind golf being in the Olympics, but I don't believe it should be classified as a sport. It's an activity. IMHAO, of course. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RUPERTKBD Posted August 13, 2016 Share Posted August 13, 2016 1 minute ago, Alflives said: I just got back from the airport. I borrowed a 7 iron, and it went on forever! explain Himenez, Cabrara, Daly, Stadler, and the host of out of shape, overweight, cigar smoking, scotch drinking (while they play) top players. And I know there are A LOT more of these guys, who regularly go out and beat the flat bellies. Are these previously mentioned guys superior athletes? I don't mind golf being in the Olympics, but I don't believe it should be classified as a sport. It's an activity. IMHAO, of course. It's Jimenez, BTW, and he was much thinner when he was a world class player (if he ever was) The guys you mention are mostly from an era when physical fitness wasn't as big a part of the game. Nowadays, the true contenders are guys like Johnson, Rose, Spieth, Stensen and McIlroy, none of whom are overweight. The only guy off the top of my head who is still competitive while being overweight is Bubba Watson and as with any sport, there are always exceptions. Bartolo Colon is still getting batters out. Do you believe that baseball isn't a sport. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alflives Posted August 13, 2016 Share Posted August 13, 2016 4 minutes ago, RUPERTKBD said: It's Jimenez, BTW, and he was much thinner when he was a world class player (if he ever was) The guys you mention are mostly from an era when physical fitness wasn't as big a part of the game. Nowadays, the true contenders are guys like Johnson, Rose, Spieth, Stensen and McIlroy, none of whom are overweight. The only guy off the top of my head who is still competitive while being overweight is Bubba Watson and as with any sport, there are always exceptions. Bartolo Colon is still getting batters out. Do you believe that baseball isn't a sport. We are discussing golf. How is golf different than curling? Plus, I like Bubba Watson. He's like Happy Gilmore! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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