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[Rumour/Speculation] Hudler/Canucks


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3 minutes ago, Kenny Powers said:

I'm hoping that Hudler is holding out for multi-year & JB is firm on a 1 year deal. 1 year 2.5M take it or leave it. He's not part if our future, but could be a win/win: Hudler provides offence & Canucks offer very little competition for top 6 minutes, so he can earn his next contract.

I was also thinking this. We don't need that cap space this year. We will however need it next year. Hudler would be a staple on the second line unless beartschi flat out outperforms him. Obviously thag wouldn't be a bad thing but hudler would allow us to shelter Baertschi if he wasn't ready for second line duties just yet. 

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Just now, Gooseberries said:

I was also thinking this. We don't need that cap space this year. We will however need it next year. Hudler would be a staple on the second line unless beartschi flat out outperforms him. Obviously thag wouldn't be a bad thing but hudler would allow us to shelter Baertschi if he wasn't ready for second line duties just yet. 

Agree. The cap space (this year) is an asset we need to take advantage of. We'll use it for either a FA like Hudler, or keep it as an asset for a trade as we approach the trade deadline & expansion draft.  If capfriendly is accurate, our current cap space prorated at the deadline will equal $12M+ in yearly salary. We could pry multiple picks & prospects from playoff teams desperate for space at the deadline. I'm good with either option.

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8 hours ago, ButterBean said:

Why would it take Horvat away from his game? Horvat and Baertschi have good chemistry together and they were putting up decent numbers despite playing with low ice time. Sutter isn't the answer at 2nd line C even tho he was playing well offensively last year he's better in the 3rd line C role.

Horvat was forcing his offence when he played with Baertschi.  Likely only temporary because C2 will be Horvat's spot and Benning has also said that LW2 will be Baertschi's.


After the Jets game - WD had a very brutal assessment on the performance of the team and talked of how they weren't playing an honest game and cheating on defence - trying to leave the zone early instead of playing defence first.  The only guy that got praise was Baer who he thought had a great game.  A few days later WD added that his game went to another level especially the last 10 games - the last 9 were spent away from Horvat.  So it might be better for both right now.

 

Horvat's offence comes from playing good defence - where he breaks up plays and then rushes the other way to score.  Baertschi can work off the rush but his strength is when he gets the puck in the o-zone where he constructs a play to score.  

-----

WDs quotes on Horvat.

The Colorado game after the Jets game when asked about Horvat at C3 - he played with Gaunce and Virtanen.  "I think it's better for him.  I think we took him away a bit from his game when we played him with Baertschi and Vrbata but we needed to because we were looking for ways to score.  But he's better when he plays with defensive guys, he shuts guys down and then works off transition."

 

After the Anaheim game in early April (had lately been playing with Etem, Dorsett, Higgins):   "I thought a little bit I was playing to his weakness. Ah, I don't know. It's not his weakness, but the strength of his game is playing great defence," Willie Desjardins said.  "It's not forcing the offence. It's funny, because the past couple of games I put him on a more defensive line. I wanted him to be more of a shutdown guy. And he's responded with great efforts. I see him as a real good checking center."

 

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18 hours ago, mll said:

WD after the Colorado game mid-March on Horvat:  "I think it's better for him.  I think we took him away a bit from his game when we played him with Baertschi and Vrbata but we needed to because we were looking for ways to score.  But he's better when he plays with defensive guys, he shuts guys down and then works off transition."

 

This does not spell Horvat being C2 over Sutter.  There were other comments too and it's pretty obvious that WD wants Horvat to work on his defensive game before taking the next step.  Hudler and Rodin do not qualify as defensive wingers.

 

Well, two points:

 

I appreciate that Willie's plan for Horvat likely starts him out on the 3rd line.  However, my take on it is that I think there is a good chance Horvat will show so much scoring flair that Willie will have no choice but to give into those who believe Horvat should be playing on the 2nd line.  Fact is that Sutter is best suited for a 3rd line role as well, and is really being over utilized on the 2nd line.  With all this said, perhaps when it comes to the PP that is where Horvat can get his extra time instead while still achieving WD's desires for Horvat on the 3rd.

 

But secondly, and perhaps most importantly, the line combinations I posted were really only to show the quality of players we would have in the lineup overall.  Nobody knows for certain what the line combinations will be, and even one player coming in or going out of the lineup can shuffle everything around.  Does Eriksson succeed on the 1st line?  Does Virtanen make the team?  How does Rodin do on the 2nd, and would WD even place him there?  etc.

 

 

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13 hours ago, drummerboy said:

It's close, but it gives Horvat zero chance of offence.  We are developing Bo to be our future in the top 6.  Not a 3rd line Allstar. 

At this point in his development I'd like to give him more offensive linemates and responsibility.

I loved him in the last half of the year. Putting up good points playing a true power forward style. 

Let Sutter be the shutdown guy. 

Everything you've just said is completely contradictory to what WD has said is the development plan for Horvat this season. He felt he was rushed into an offensive role last year and wants him on the 3rd line this year with checking linemates to work on that part of his game.

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9 minutes ago, Roger Neilson's Towel said:

Everything you've just said is completely contradictory to what WD has said is the development plan for Horvat this season. He felt he was rushed into an offensive role last year and wants him on the 3rd line this year with checking linemates to work on that part of his game.

Wouldent be the only thing I disagree with Willy about.  

Mast half of the year Bo got something like 30 points in 40 games. His offensive game has awesome potential.

Id say willy rushed Bo into a shutdown role, and his numbers back that up.  

 

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Just now, drummerboy said:

Wouldent be the only thing I disagree with Willy about.  

Mast half of the year Bo got something like 30 points in 40 games. His offensive game has awesome potential.

Id say willy rushed Bo into a shutdown role, and his numbers back that up.  

 

I'm not agreeing or disagreeing, just saying that's not what is happening since WD is still the coach and this is how he is using Horvat going forward as per his comments.

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46 minutes ago, drummerboy said:

Wouldent be the only thing I disagree with Willy about.  

Mast half of the year Bo got something like 30 points in 40 games. His offensive game has awesome potential.

Id say willy rushed Bo into a shutdown role, and his numbers back that up.  

 

Horvat has been scoring in a shutdown role - he was breaking up plays in the d-zone and then using his power and speed to rush the other way to score.  It's unclear if he would be as productive with o-zone starts and needing to construct a play to score.

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Starting to warm up to Hudler a little. Yea he's a little old but he still put up 50+ points last year. I think something like this could work very well

 

Sedin - Sedin - Eriksson

Burrows - Sutter - Hudler

Baertschi - Horvat - Hansen

Virtanen - Granlund - Etem

Rodin/Dorsett

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5 hours ago, Alflives said:

Your line combinations are why I don't think we should sign Hudler.  We should go with the guys we have.  Plus, Gaunce deserves a fair shot too.  Isn't Hudler kind of small and soft?  

I agree Alf.

I am becoming almost paranoid about sub 6'-00" forwards now - as you have probably noticed. Let me explain. I realise that skill and speed comes in all sizes but ask yourself why we lost to the Bruins. It wasn't that they were the better (more skilled ) team, it was because their size with physicality wore down our skill over 7 games and that is how it will always work out imo

 

I am not saying we need everyone to be over six feet in the forwards but we need a good proportion to be six or over and those who are not to play like Gallagher/Johnson i.e. fiery and unrelenting.

 

By the way surely Jake (6'-1") is taller than Hansen and Etem - well not according to the stats. That also makes him only 1" taller than Dorsett and Horvat - really?

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11 hours ago, DeNiro said:

The size and grit will come through drafting and timely acquisitions, you can't force a complete identity change overnight. Until then we might as well play to this teams strength, which is skill. If everyone's so convinced we wont make the playoffs, what does it matter anyways?

Because it's counter-productive when we are trying to get younger and establish the new core.  Whether or not playoffs are made, the transition needs to continue or else we are literally just spinning our wheels on old retreads.

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52 minutes ago, alfstonker said:

I agree Alf.

I am becoming almost paranoid about sub 6'-00" forwards now - as you have probably noticed. Let me explain. I realise that skill and speed comes in all sizes but ask yourself why we lost to the Bruins. It wasn't that they were the better (more skilled ) team, it was because their size with physicality wore down our skill over 7 games and that is how it will always work out imo

 

I am not saying we need everyone to be over six feet in the forwards but we need a good proportion to be six or over and those who are not to play like Gallagher/Johnson i.e. fiery and unrelenting.

 

By the way surely Jake (6'-1") is taller than Hansen and Etem - well not according to the stats. That also makes him only 1" taller than Dorsett and Horvat - really?

I kind of agree with you.  I have heard JB talk about having "heavy" players.  Jake and Bo are thick guys, and have a lot of body mass.  The D is where that really becomes needed, the way they seem to get pounded in this new NHL.  That's why I'm for trading Tanev to get a top six forward, instead of the UFA route.  Landeskog is one of those high compete heavy guys.  I wonder how long he's going to last?  

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16 minutes ago, Alflives said:

I kind of agree with you.  I have heard JB talk about having "heavy" players.  Jake and Bo are thick guys, and have a lot of body mass.  The D is where that really becomes needed, the way they seem to get pounded in this new NHL.  That's why I'm for trading Tanev to get a top six forward, instead of the UFA route.  Landeskog is one of those high compete heavy guys.  I wonder how long he's going to last?  

Then who do we replace Tanev with? He may not be the strongest but trading him without getting a replacement leaves a huge hole on the defense. 

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Just now, Pears said:

Then who do we replace Tanev with? He may not be the strongest but trading him without getting a replacement leaves a huge hole on the defense. 

Yup, I accept that.  Tanev will need to continue his Gumby impersonation if he is to survive.  He really gets pounded.

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10 hours ago, Chip Kelly said:

What's the dirt on Pirri though anybody know?

 

25 year old 20 goal scorers no matter how streaky are not left this long without contracts.

 

Something has to be going on with him mentally or with his private life. Maybe has a bad attitude, lazy work ethic etc?

 

Gotta be more than just waiting for teams to clear cap space and not wanting to sign what would be a bargain short term deal.

 

I say the Canucks should sign him for 1 year and experiment. Low risk, Decent reward if he plays well.

 

Kris Russel too. Either before training camp teams are going to make a move or two to create cap space or these 2 guys and the other unsigned guys with NHL experience will be playing in the KHL or somewhere else in Europe this year.

 

 

No dice:)

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38 minutes ago, Pears said:

Then who do we replace Tanev with? He may not be the strongest but trading him without getting a replacement leaves a huge hole on the defense. 

Eventually? I'm guessing Brisebois (in role, not necessarily position). I guess Alf's argument is short term pain for long term gain, which I can somewhat understand.

 

That said, it doesn't seem like management shares that point of view and it would seem rash to make that move with Brisebois not ready and so little right side, top 4 depth.

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14 hours ago, ButterBean said:

Why would it take Horvat away from his game? Horvat and Baertschi have good chemistry together and they were putting up decent numbers despite playing with low ice time. Sutter isn't the answer at 2nd line C even tho he was playing well offensively last year he's better in the 3rd line C role.

When we are contender yes Sutter will be a 3C but right now 2C is where he belongs

 

Virtanen Horvat Boeser

Sedin Sedin Eriksson

Baertschi Sutter Rodin

 

Juolevi Tryamkin

Hutton Gudbranson

 

Markstrom 

Demko

 

Fill in the blanks to become a contender in a few years

 

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2 hours ago, Alflives said:

Yup, I accept that.  Tanev will need to continue his Gumby impersonation if he is to survive.  He really gets pounded.

 

1 hour ago, J.R. said:

Eventually? I'm guessing Brisebois (in role, not necessarily position). I guess Alf's argument is short term pain for long term gain, which I can somewhat understand.

 

That said, it doesn't seem like management shares that point of view and it would seem rash to make that move with Brisebois not ready and so little right side, top 4 depth.

Here's the thing. What if Juolevi turns heads during training camp and forces himself on the team? Think we could get away with Edler+ for Landeskog?

 

Hutton - Gudbranson

Juolevi - Tanev

Tryamkin/Sbisa - Larsen

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Just now, Pears said:

 

Here's the thing. What if Juolevi turns heads during training camp and forces himself on the team? Think we could get away with Edler+ for Landeskog?

 

Hutton - Gudbranson

Juolevi - Tanev

Tryamkin/Sbisa - Larsen

If anything, IMO it would be:

 

Hutton, Gudbranson

Sbisa, Tanev

Juolevi, Tryamkin

 

Pedan, Larsen

 

...but they wouldn't put Hutton in that position IMO. So, not happening.

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16 minutes ago, J.R. said:

If anything, IMO it would be:

 

Hutton, Gudbranson

Sbisa, Tanev

Juolevi, Tryamkin

 

Pedan, Larsen

 

...but they wouldn't put Hutton in that position IMO. So, not happening.

If he did turn heads and we traded Edler+ for Landeskog I would actually put Juolevi on the top pairing with Tanev. 

 

Juolevi Tanev

Hutton Gudbranson

Tryamkin Sbisa/Larsen

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