Virtanen Vs Etem

[Baggins]

2 minutes ago, Alflives said:

Hobbit, go eat your breakfast - you need food.

Just had two burgers. Go eat a cat.

[Alflives]

2 minutes ago, Baggins said:

Just had two burgers. Go eat a cat.

Full.  Going fishing....  

[Kokanee king]

23 hours ago, Cowardrobertford said:

Hitting is unsustainable. Virt will get wear out and get wasted if all he was expected to do was hit someone

agreed, but only a fool would only expect him to only hit. He takes numbers and will get you back. He makes people think twice when heading for the puck. Look at the game against the Ducks last year Kesler was more concerned with hitting Vrt then he was about scoring. Plus without Vrt we would be the only team in the west without a forward player like him. We easily have the softest forward group in the west and without players like Vrt we would be one of the softest in the league. 

[dpn1]

I haven't got a clue on how to change the title.  As far as Jake Virtanen goes, he has the speed,power and a great shot.  No doubt in my mind that he makes the and stays.  The Canucks don't really have a player like that is as good as him IMO.  (Even if my opinion isn't worth much yet)

[Alflives]

5 minutes ago, dpn1 said:

I haven't got a clue on how to change the title.  As far as Jake Virtanen goes, he has the speed,power and a great shot.  No doubt in my mind that he makes the and stays.  The Canucks don't really have a player like that is as good as him IMO.  (Even if my opinion isn't worth much yet)

Hey kid, you get a plus from me.  No one should have a minus total that is more than their age, and I'm guessing you still need a couple more.   

[GB5]

11 hours ago, iinatcc said:

Wow you must be so smart pointing out a typo (1 for you

[JamesB]

On 8/16/2016 at 1:02 PM, Sedin Brothers said:

Virtanen has plenty of time to develop into the player he needs to be. He was rushed into the league last year, and it arguably hurt his development. There were times it was painful to watch him (and sometimes not so bad) and he lacked the awareness to be on the main squad. I do think he could make the team and turn some heads if he had a great offseason - but it wouldn't hurt to start him in Utica.

 

Etem, on the other hand, is a player that once had a lot of potential and then had a very difficult time finding himself, mostly due to him not crashing the net or having a set role with a team. He showed great flashes with Horvat, that have to be seen if they can be built upon, to see whether or not he's in the future plans.

 

Think of it like this -- 

If Etem pans out - we have a borderline top 6, for sure bottom 6 player to move on with.

If Etem doesn't pan out - he's a one year gap between the players that we are developing, such as Virtanen, so that we don't rush them into the big leagues.

Good response. I would go further and say it would help Virtanen to start in Utica (as others have suggested). It is not just a question of Utica not hurting Virtanen. . Also, it is important that Virtanen is waiver exempt and Etem is not.

 

Also, based on the second half of last year, Etem right now is a better player than Virtanen. We do of course expect Virtanen to overtake Etem at some point -- maybe this year.

 

I like the idea of Virtanen getting experience, confidence, and a better attitude in Utica, and getting called up later in the season. I think it is important for him to earn a spot instead of having a spot gifted to him based on potential. 

 

And Etem looked close to finding his niche last year. I don't see him as a top 6 forward, be he could be a useful bottom 6 guy. He has decent size, strength, and speed. If he is willing to play a physical game, pay attention to defence and can provide some secondary scoring he could be a useful player.

[dpn1]

I would never advocate gifting anyone a position.  If Virtanen stays, he has to earn it.  I Just think he will.

[dpn1]

Alflives, I think I need at least 38 more for that to take but I will kee trying.  

[Nuxfanabroad]

Lebowski Limerick

 

You go on spellin' his handle as Vert

Smokey's entered a worlda' hurt!

Everyone's gone CRAZY?!

RULES becomin' hazy?

Cross that line, & yer planted in dirt! :^)

[dpn1]

Nice!

[harrytoolips]

On August 16, 2016 at 1:02 PM, Sedin Brothers said:

Virtanen has plenty of time to develop into the player he needs to be. He was rushed into the league last year, and it arguably hurt his development. There were times it was painful to watch him (and sometimes not so bad) and he lacked the awareness to be on the main squad. I do think he could make the team and turn some heads if he had a great offseason - but it wouldn't hurt to start him in Utica.

 

Etem, on the other hand, is a player that once had a lot of potential and then had a very difficult time finding himself, mostly due to him not crashing the net or having a set role with a team. He showed great flashes with Horvat, that have to be seen if they can be built upon, to see whether or not he's in the future plans.

 

Think of it like this -- 

If Etem pans out - we have a borderline top 6, for sure bottom 6 player to move on with.

If Etem doesn't pan out - he's a one year gap between the players that we are developing, such as Virtanen, so that we don't rush them into the big leagues.

Exactly".........

[iinatcc]

20 hours ago, Baggins said:

A typo is an accidental slip while typing. When somebody has it misspelled twice the odds are they just don't know the correct spelling. There's a difference.

But he still knew who he was talking about. And getting the spelling of someone's name isn't uncommon since, for some reason, of all top for sports leagues NHL players has the hardest names to spell.

 

Look at Vancouver's 1st round pick, I still have to google to get his name right. And it's not just the European players I mean there's an American player by the name of Alex Galchenyuk.

 

Disclaimer: I am not a "name-ist" but it shows how getting the spelling of players name wrong in the NHL is a lot more frequent than other sport leagues.

 

 

[insomniac604]

There is room for both. 

 

Etem is 24 now which seems to be the threshold for a PF to come in and make a splash.

He has over 100 more games than Virtanen.

He is a RW but shoots L, so he has the option to play both sides.

He has also bounced around teams and seems to recognize this might be his last shot.

Us re-signing him was not a fluke.

 

I believe Etem has the potential to mitigate the McCann loss.

Jake can play his side or the opposite.

I don't believe one depends on the other. We have room for both.

Jake will probably start in Utica then come up for an injury.

 

[2011]

3 hours ago, JamesB said:

Good response. I would go further and say it would help Virtanen to start in Utica (as others have suggested). It is not just a question of Utica not hurting Virtanen. . Also, it is important that Virtanen is waiver exempt and Etem is not.

 

Also, based on the second half of last year, Etem right now is a better player than Virtanen. We do of course expect Virtanen to overtake Etem at some point -- maybe this year.

 

I like the idea of Virtanen getting experience, confidence, and a better attitude in Utica, and getting called up later in the season. I think it is important for him to earn a spot instead of having a spot gifted to him based on potential. 

 

And Etem looked close to finding his niche last year. I don't see him as a top 6 forward, be he could be a useful bottom 6 guy. He has decent size, strength, and speed. If he is willing to play a physical game, pay attention to defence and can provide some secondary scoring he could be a useful player.

What reason do you have to believe that Utica would be better at Developing Jake than Vancouver?

 

When was the last time that a top 6 forward from Utica came to Vancouver and made an impact? Former 1st round picks Jensen and Shinkaruk had plenty of time in Utica to gain experience, confidence, and a better attitude.  They organization gave up on both those players last year. Based on seasons past, I see no reason to believe that Utica has any serious advantage to develop NHL quality hockey players (other than some success with goaltenders).

 

One could argue that Vancouver is far superior in development.  Look at the success of Bo Horvat. The Sedins are the organisations best players in franchise history, what a learning opportunity that provides.  Wouldn't a young player benefit in learning tips and tricks playing and practicing with these (potentially Hockey hall of famers) players, or would a young player benefit in learning off of guys like Grenier and Zalewski?  Its a silly argument really.  As far as I'm concerned, I have seen no evidence to support that playing in Utica has any advantage in player development.  Rodin had some seasons in the AHL and he looked lost. He goes to Europe and suddenly every fan has him locked for a roster spot.  Tryamkin came straight to the NHL from the KHL.  Again, when was the last time Utica developed a forward that made an impact in a Vancouver Canuck jersey?

 

I love your point about roster spots being earned.  Too many young players believe that they are "entitled" to this and that.  However that is what training camp is for.  If Jake comes right out of the gate, has a great camp, but gets sent to Utica because "its better for his development" what does that say about earing spots?

 

[Where'd Luongo?]

1 hour ago, 2011 said:

What reason do you have to believe that Utica would be better at Developing Jake than Vancouver?

 

When was the last time that a top 6 forward from Utica came to Vancouver and made an impact? Former 1st round picks Jensen and Shinkaruk had plenty of time in Utica to gain experience, confidence, and a better attitude.  They organization gave up on both those players last year. Based on seasons past, I see no reason to believe that Utica has any serious advantage to develop NHL quality hockey players (other than some success with goaltenders).

 

One could argue that Vancouver is far superior in development.  Look at the success of Bo Horvat. The Sedins are the organisations best players in franchise history, what a learning opportunity that provides.  Wouldn't a young player benefit in learning tips and tricks playing and practicing with these (potentially Hockey hall of famers) players, or would a young player benefit in learning off of guys like Grenier and Zalewski?  Its a silly argument really.  As far as I'm concerned, I have seen no evidence to support that playing in Utica has any advantage in player development.  Rodin had some seasons in the AHL and he looked lost. He goes to Europe and suddenly every fan has him locked for a roster spot.  Tryamkin came straight to the NHL from the KHL.  Again, when was the last time Utica developed a forward that made an impact in a Vancouver Canuck jersey?

 

I love your point about roster spots being earned.  Too many young players believe that they are "entitled" to this and that.  However that is what training camp is for.  If Jake comes right out of the gate, has a great camp, but gets sent to Utica because "its better for his development" what does that say about earing spots?

 

I never really thought about this, you make a pretty good point actually. Other teams sure seem to excel at developing players from their farm teams but we really suck at it. One could also argue that we didn't have the talent on our AHL team in the first place. Time will tell but I would suggest Gaunce is the only one who has seen a benefit from playing in Utica to the point of being a solid player on the Canucks. 

[bobbyg43]

Jake needs to put in a season under Green an fully develop his game on offense in a first line roll.

Etem time has now come this year as another poster put it succinctly ,

"Boom or Bust " time is now

his measure will be based on this season.( not sure if I would want WD coaching ,if this was me, but that's out of his hand now)  

[aGENT]

17 hours ago, JamesB said:

And Etem looked close to finding his niche last year. I don't see him as a top 6 forward, be he could be a useful bottom 6 guy. He has decent size, strength, and speed. If he is willing to play a physical game, pay attention to defence and can provide some secondary scoring he could be a useful player.

I'd say middle 6 if he can reach his ceiling. If we develop him well he could be Hansen 2.0 with more size 

 

I'd actually LOVE to see them both on Horvat's wings this year. Etem, Horvat, Hansen would be a KILLER 3rd line IMO and let Hansen mentor him on the same line. That will require another top 6 player though to get Hansen down there....

[Baggins]

12 hours ago, iinatcc said:

But he still knew who he was talking about. And getting the spelling of someone's name isn't uncommon since, for some reason, of all top for sports leagues NHL players has the hardest names to spell.

 

Look at Vancouver's 1st round pick, I still have to google to get his name right. And it's not just the European players I mean there's an American player by the name of Alex Galchenyuk.

 

Disclaimer: I am not a "name-ist" but it shows how getting the spelling of players name wrong in the NHL is a lot more frequent than other sport leagues.

 

 

I can understand misplelling the name of new acquisitions. Done it myself. But Virtanen was drafted two years ago and has played a full season here. His name is on the back of his jersey. How many articles have been written about him here? How many more posts here about him right here on this board? If your a fan of a team at least make an effort to learn their names. It's just the way I look at it.

[Baggins]

5 hours ago, 2011 said:

What reason do you have to believe that Utica would be better at Developing Jake than Vancouver?

 

When was the last time that a top 6 forward from Utica came to Vancouver and made an impact? Former 1st round picks Jensen and Shinkaruk had plenty of time in Utica to gain experience, confidence, and a better attitude.  They organization gave up on both those players last year. Based on seasons past, I see no reason to believe that Utica has any serious advantage to develop NHL quality hockey players (other than some success with goaltenders).

 

One could argue that Vancouver is far superior in development.  Look at the success of Bo Horvat. The Sedins are the organisations best players in franchise history, what a learning opportunity that provides.  Wouldn't a young player benefit in learning tips and tricks playing and practicing with these (potentially Hockey hall of famers) players, or would a young player benefit in learning off of guys like Grenier and Zalewski?  Its a silly argument really.  As far as I'm concerned, I have seen no evidence to support that playing in Utica has any advantage in player development.  Rodin had some seasons in the AHL and he looked lost. He goes to Europe and suddenly every fan has him locked for a roster spot.  Tryamkin came straight to the NHL from the KHL.  Again, when was the last time Utica developed a forward that made an impact in a Vancouver Canuck jersey?

 

I love your point about roster spots being earned.  Too many young players believe that they are "entitled" to this and that.  However that is what training camp is for.  If Jake comes right out of the gate, has a great camp, but gets sent to Utica because "its better for his development" what does that say about earing spots?

 

Having a great camp isn't enough. He has to show he's clearly the best option. When it comes to waiver eligible versus exempt, the exempt player has to be head and shoulders better. Hutton and McCann made the team last year because they were head and shoulders better than Corrado and Vey in preseason. No team wants to lose players to waivers. Thus an exempt player has to show he`s a much better option.

 

Burrows, Kesler, Bieksa, Hansen, and Tanev all spent some time in the AHL. How much did Markstrom improve having a season in Uttica? For some big minutes in the AHL is better development than a minor role here. It certainly doesn`t hurt their development having a bigger role in a lesser league.