Virtanen Vs Etem

[TheNewGM]

Jake is WAYYY better then Etem in every way as far as I am concerned... Etem never had a GREAT play last year that I saw.. Jake had a COUPLE great plays , and showed flashes of some pretty awesome potential. If he learns how to hit at the right time and drive the net . Jake is going to be a first line beast.. I dont see Etem rising to first line potential.

 

 

As far as "rushing him" I think that is ridiculous. If you CAN play in the NHL, then why not learn and play against the best? hopefully professional coaches can teach him stuff?.... plus people saying JAke should not have been here IMO do not actually play ice hockey , you just watch it. Jake IS ready. He needs to play with top end talent to reach his potential.

 

WHY IS JAKE NOT WITH THE SEDINS?  because the sedins are slow as &^@# and not defensive enough to play with a rookie,. simple. JAke would score 20+ goals if he was on the first line. If Anson Carter can do it. Jake can too. BUT when the Sedins lose the puck its painful to watch them get back to defense.. IF they dont line change while skating back.. and that really limits the type they can play with. Its why Kassian did not stick with that line , cause he was slow and bad on defense also.

[Alflives]

8 minutes ago, TheNewGM said:

Jake is WAYYY better then Etem in every way as far as I am concerned... Etem never had a GREAT play last year that I saw.. Jake had a COUPLE great plays , and showed flashes of some pretty awesome potential. If he learns how to hit at the right time and drive the net . Jake is going to be a first line beast.. I dont see Etem rising to first line potential.

 

 

As far as "rushing him" I think that is ridiculous. If you CAN play in the NHL, then why not learn and play against the best? hopefully professional coaches can teach him stuff?.... plus people saying JAke should not have been here IMO do not actually play ice hockey , you just watch it. Jake IS ready. He needs to play with top end talent to reach his potential.

 

WHY IS JAKE NOT WITH THE SEDINS?  because the sedins are slow as &^@# and not defensive enough to play with a rookie,. simple. JAke would score 20+ goals if he was on the first line. If Anson Carter can do it. Jake can too. BUT when the Sedins lose the puck its painful to watch them get back to defense.. IF they dont line change while skating back.. and that really limits the type they can play with. Its why Kassian did not stick with that line , cause he was slow and bad on defense also.

Yes, Jake is ready for time with the Twins PROVIDING HIS FITNESS is at their level.  

[Baggins]

1 hour ago, TheNewGM said:

Jake is WAYYY better then Etem in every way as far as I am concerned... Etem never had a GREAT play last year that I saw.. Jake had a COUPLE great plays , and showed flashes of some pretty awesome potential.

Etem scored the same number of goals in 16 fewer games. But never had a great play? I suspect that your personal bias talking.

[harrytoolips]

7 hours ago, TheNewGM said:

Jake is WAYYY better then Etem in every way as far as I am concerned... Etem never had a GREAT play last year that I saw.. Jake had a COUPLE great plays , and showed flashes of some pretty awesome potential. If he learns how to hit at the right time and drive the net . Jake is going to be a first line beast.. I dont see Etem rising to first line potential.

 

 

As far as "rushing him" I think that is ridiculous. If you CAN play in the NHL, then why not learn and play against the best? hopefully professional coaches can teach him stuff?.... plus people saying JAke should not have been here IMO do not actually play ice hockey , you just watch it. Jake IS ready. He needs to play with top end talent to reach his potential.

 

WHY IS JAKE NOT WITH THE SEDINS?  because the sedins are slow as &^@# and not defensive enough to play with a rookie,. simple. JAke would score 20+ goals if he was on the first line. If Anson Carter can do it. Jake can too. BUT when the Sedins lose the puck its painful to watch them get back to defense.. IF they dont line change while skating back.. and that really limits the type they can play with. Its why Kassian did not stick with that line , cause he was slow and bad on defense also.

You must have missed the last 5 games of the season, Etem played great, developed chemistry with Horvat...I love JV, but I think a year to develop in the A will be great for him..

[dpn1]

Last year Etem played games with New York as well.  In total I believe he played 3 more games than Virtanen last season. 

[danaimo]

On ‎2016‎-‎08‎-‎16 at 1:08 PM, the harry said:

One should expect that people will write the correct name of the players at least in the head of a new topic. It is very astonishing that about 10% to 15% of all the players names in CDC are wrong spelled.

 

It's something about respect to wright the correct names, imo.

Well said Harrie

[ice orca]

17 hours ago, TheNewGM said:

Jake is WAYYY better then Etem in every way as far as I am concerned... Etem never had a GREAT play last year that I saw.. Jake had a COUPLE great plays , and showed flashes of some pretty awesome potential. If he learns how to hit at the right time and drive the net . Jake is going to be a first line beast.. I dont see Etem rising to first line potential.

 

 

As far as "rushing him" I think that is ridiculous. If you CAN play in the NHL, then why not learn and play against the best? hopefully professional coaches can teach him stuff?.... plus people saying JAke should not have been here IMO do not actually play ice hockey , you just watch it. Jake IS ready. He needs to play with top end talent to reach his potential.

 

WHY IS JAKE NOT WITH THE SEDINS?  because the sedins are slow as &^@# and not defensive enough to play with a rookie,. simple. JAke would score 20+ goals if he was on the first line. If Anson Carter can do it. Jake can too. BUT when the Sedins lose the puck its painful to watch them get back to defense.. IF they dont line change while skating back.. and that really limits the type they can play with. Its why Kassian did not stick with that line , cause he was slow and bad on defense also.

Sorry but Jake lasted a shift with the Twins last year because he was completely lost on the cycle game. Kassian could cycle with them as well as Carter or Hansen, Vrbata and probably Loui. Jake will have to learn how to play a different game to get to play with then full time, cycle and give and go in the neutral zone. As Burrows said you have to know where to go with the twins, Jake needs to learn the game within the game to play effective with them.

[JamesB]

On 8/19/2016 at 9:56 AM, J.R. said:

I'd say middle 6 if he can reach his ceiling. If we develop him well he could be Hansen 2.0 with more size 

 

I'd actually LOVE to see them both on Horvat's wings this year. Etem, Horvat, Hansen would be a KILLER 3rd line IMO and let Hansen mentor him on the same line. That will require another top 6 player though to get Hansen down there....

I like the idea of Etem, Horvat, and Hansen as a third line. Plenty of speed, pretty good size and strength, good shutdown capability with Horvat and Hansen, and a reasonable threat to score.

 

The problem is that I don't like what that leaves as a second line. Even though the triumvirate (TL, JB, and WD) say that they don't want to put pressure on Bo and are happy if he just plays a solid two-way game, I think he is already the second best offensive center on the team (i.e. already better than Sutter in the offensive zone). If not, given normal age-related improvement he should pass Sutter this year.  And there is no question he is already a better playmaker than Sutter.

 

Therefore, I think Horvat needs to be on a scoring line. I would like to see Sutter get the primary shutdown job (maybe playing with Hansen and Etem, or Hansen and Burrows) and play Horvat with Baertschi and maybe Rodin (if Rodin is healthy and as good as we are hoping). Horvat and Baertschi were good together last year even though WD said that he preferred Horvat in a role where he is under less pressure to score.

 

I agree that it would be good get another scoring/two-way RW (as Benning says he wants) if the idea it to put a solid team on the ice this year. But there is not much out there so I would not hold my breath on that. Also, looking a year ahead, there is a decent chance that the depth chart at RW the following year might be something like Eriksson, Boeser (who I think is likely to be ready for the NHL at age 20), Hansen, and Virtanen. Dorsett with be on the 4th line, either at RW or LW, and Etem and Rodin will be in the mix and call play either wing. So there won't be a lot of room for an extra guy unless some the guys just mentioned are traded.

[Baggins]

12 hours ago, dpn1 said:

Last year Etem played games with New York as well.  In total I believe he played 3 more games than Virtanen last season. 

Does it matter more what he did in NY or here when considering his position on our team? Here he played 16 fewer games than Virtanen and scored the same number of goals. Without the benefit of camp and preseason here to learn our system and develop any chemistry with other players before the season even started. Etem had to go through that process on the fly.

[mll]

13 hours ago, JamesB said:

I like the idea of Etem, Horvat, and Hansen as a third line. Plenty of speed, pretty good size and strength, good shutdown capability with Horvat and Hansen, and a reasonable threat to score.

 

The problem is that I don't like what that leaves as a second line. Even though the triumvirate (TL, JB, and WD) say that they don't want to put pressure on Bo and are happy if he just plays a solid two-way game, I think he is already the second best offensive center on the team (i.e. already better than Sutter in the offensive zone). If not, given normal age-related improvement he should pass Sutter this year.  And there is no question he is already a better playmaker than Sutter.

 

Therefore, I think Horvat needs to be on a scoring line. I would like to see Sutter get the primary shutdown job (maybe playing with Hansen and Etem, or Hansen and Burrows) and play Horvat with Baertschi and maybe Rodin (if Rodin is healthy and as good as we are hoping). Horvat and Baertschi were good together last year even though WD said that he preferred Horvat in a role where he is under less pressure to score.

 

I agree that it would be good get another scoring/two-way RW (as Benning says he wants) if the idea it to put a solid team on the ice this year. But there is not much out there so I would not hold my breath on that. Also, looking a year ahead, there is a decent chance that the depth chart at RW the following year might be something like Eriksson, Boeser (who I think is likely to be ready for the NHL at age 20), Hansen, and Virtanen. Dorsett with be on the 4th line, either at RW or LW, and Etem and Rodin will be in the mix and call play either wing. So there won't be a lot of room for an extra guy unless some the guys just mentioned are traded.

Benning is not looking for an RW but for an LW because he doesn't want Baertschi at LW2. 

WD doesn't think Baertschi is a fit with Horvat and has been playing him with Granlund whenever possible.   In March he told Kuzma that he wants someone better and more productive at LW2 and hopes to have Baertschi at LW4 next season.  He wasn't productive in March playing with Granlund - although WD did recognise that he was making things happen when he had the puck. 

WD has also said this summer that the 2nd line starts with Sutter-Hansen.

[Me_]

On August 16, 2016 at 3:59 PM, Bur14Kes17 said:

People place him in the AHL because he's only like 18 and playing top line minutes would do wonders for his development. Etem is like 24 and the time is now for him. He'd be a waste in the AHL and it's boom or bust time in the NHL for him

Virtanen AND Etem should be on the team.

 

Healthy internal competition.

[Me_]

52 minutes ago, mll said:

Benning is not looking for an RW but for an LW because he doesn't want Baertschi at LW2. 

WD doesn't think Baertschi is a fit with Horvat and has been playing him with Granlund whenever possible.   In January he told Kuzma that he wants someone better and more productive at LW2 and hopes to have Baertschi at LW4 next season.  He wasn't productive in March playing with Granlund - although WD did recognise that he was making things happen each time he had the puck. 

WD has also said this summer that the 2nd line starts with Sutter-Hansen.

...hopefully ends with Kane. 

 

No, Willie didn't say that last part; I did.

[Bur14Kes17]

42 minutes ago, Me_ said:

Virtanen AND Etem should be on the team.

 

Healthy internal competition.

You got no argument from me, I was just explaining why a lot of people suggest he should be in the AHL but frankly I don't disagree. I worry sometimes he might be on the same early track that Evander Kane got on, and I wonder if it wouldn't be good for his maturity and development to have to move out of his home town and mom and dads house to be given top line ice time, a lot of responsibility, and ride the bus in Utica for a few months. 

 

[dpn1]

9 hours ago, Baggins said:

Does it matter more what he did in NY or here when considering his position on our team? Here he played 16 fewer games than Virtanen and scored the same number of goals. Without the benefit of camp and preseason here to learn our system and develop any chemistry with other players before the season even started. Etem had to go through that process on the fly.

I think in order to get a true picture of what Etem did last season you have to include what he did in New York and Vancouver.  The facts are that he played in 3 more games last season.  Just because he didn't get many points in New York doesn't mean you just forget about those games.  Between October and April Etem played 3 more games than Virtanen did during the same time frame.  This gives us a true picture of what they both did last season.

[mll]

7 hours ago, Me_ said:

...hopefully ends with Kane. 

 

No, Willie didn't say that last part; I did.

Sutter-Hansen?  WD did on a radio show, they asked if Horvat could be C2 this season and he said no - it's Sutter-Hansen.

[Baggins]

2 hours ago, dpn1 said:

I think in order to get a true picture of what Etem did last season you have to include what he did in New York and Vancouver.  The facts are that he played in 3 more games last season.  Just because he didn't get many points in New York doesn't mean you just forget about those games.  Between October and April Etem played 3 more games than Virtanen did during the same time frame.  This gives us a true picture of what they both did last season.

I disagree. The better picture is what he did on the same team. You're also ignoring the fact he had the disadvantage of a new team, new coach, new system, and unfamiliar linemates. Yet he outproduced Virtanen here.

[mll]

29 minutes ago, Baggins said:

I disagree. The better picture is what he did on the same team. You're also ignoring the fact he had the disadvantage of a new team, new coach, new system, and unfamiliar linemates. Yet he outproduced Virtanen here.

Etem played with his junior linemate Vey and an experienced vet in Burrows to get acquainted to the system.   It's also a new system for Virtanen (although not on the fly) but unlike Etem, it was his first experience in the NHL.  Virtanen received irregular minutes - healthy scratched often (was rotating with Baertschi at some point) and has finished numerous games at less than 10min per night but got to play more towards the end - 11:30 over the season vs over 14min for Etem.

 

Etem played quite a few minutes more than Virtanen.  He had 16 games less but less than 50 min separate them at EV - Etem played over 3min more per game at EV than Virtanen.  He also was scratched only once.  Etem also received fairly regular linemates - Vey/Burrows then Horvat.  Virtanen played with pretty much everyone on pretty much every line.

 

It's not really worth comparing them though because expectations are totally different - Virtanen is part of the new core.

 

Fwiw Kuzma says the team is rather wishy washy on Etem - so it's pretty much his last chance to show he deserves a spot.  Can't remember which analyst was saying that he is not a natural goal scorer at this level (maybe Tomlinson).   Also WD said that he is trying to change his game to fit in - he talks of blocking shots and hitting. 

 

I thought it was interesting because for Baertschi, Benning says they want him to play his game (there are things he needs to improve but they are not trying to change fundamentally his playing style).  Also it reminds me of Jensen where they said he would need to become a different player if he wanted to make this team.   Same for Gaunce who says he has fully embraced becoming more of a shutdown player. 

[JamesB]

16 hours ago, mll said:

Benning is not looking for an RW but for an LW because he doesn't want Baertschi at LW2. 

WD doesn't think Baertschi is a fit with Horvat and has been playing him with Granlund whenever possible.   In March he told Kuzma that he wants someone better and more productive at LW2 and hopes to have Baertschi at LW4 next season.  He wasn't productive in March playing with Granlund - although WD did recognise that he was making things happen when he had the puck. 

WD has also said this summer that the 2nd line starts with Sutter-Hansen.

Thanks for the reminder. Yes, I remember WD saying that he did not like Baertschi at 2LW and preferred him at 4LW. That did not make sense to me then and it makes even less sense to me now.

 

Baertischi was outstanding in junior, was a fairly high first round pick (#13 overall), did very well in the AHL after being acquired by Vancouver. Even in the NHL his numbers are not bad. He has 58 pts in 138 games for 0.42 PPG -- putting him in the high end of the 3rd line range and better than quite a few 2nd liners. And in the 2nd half of last year he was playing at a solid 2nd line level.

 

He is a young high-skill guy with excellent speed who made a lot of progress last year and should continue to make at least some progress this year. Playing in front of a decent defence (i.e. not like last year) and with good linemates he should have a good shot at 20 goals this year.. But he is not big and not physical. He is about as far away from being a 4th liner grinder as you can get. And playing him with Granlund on the 4th line with, presumably, Dorsett at RW makes no sense to me. It is a waste of Baertschi's skills and puts him a spot where he is unlikely to succeed.

 

I also remember the Sutter/Hansen idea for the 2nd line. I remember it, but I don't like it. That is a third line masquerading as a second line. 

 

I know that WD is a successful career coach and I am just a fan, so I am not saying I know better. I am saying that these personnel decisions (if they in fact happen) do not make sense to me. My prediction is that whatever line Horvat plays on will be the de facto second line (whatever WD calls it) and that Sutter should get the primary shutdown role. 

[aGENT]

22 hours ago, JamesB said:

I like the idea of Etem, Horvat, and Hansen as a third line. Plenty of speed, pretty good size and strength, good shutdown capability with Horvat and Hansen, and a reasonable threat to score.

 

The problem is that I don't like what that leaves as a second line. Even though the triumvirate (TL, JB, and WD) say that they don't want to put pressure on Bo and are happy if he just plays a solid two-way game, I think he is already the second best offensive center on the team (i.e. already better than Sutter in the offensive zone). If not, given normal age-related improvement he should pass Sutter this year.  And there is no question he is already a better playmaker than Sutter.

 

Therefore, I think Horvat needs to be on a scoring line. I would like to see Sutter get the primary shutdown job (maybe playing with Hansen and Etem, or Hansen and Burrows) and play Horvat with Baertschi and maybe Rodin (if Rodin is healthy and as good as we are hoping). Horvat and Baertschi were good together last year even though WD said that he preferred Horvat in a role where he is under less pressure to score.

 

I agree that it would be good get another scoring/two-way RW (as Benning says he wants) if the idea it to put a solid team on the ice this year. But there is not much out there so I would not hold my breath on that. Also, looking a year ahead, there is a decent chance that the depth chart at RW the following year might be something like Eriksson, Boeser (who I think is likely to be ready for the NHL at age 20), Hansen, and Virtanen. Dorsett with be on the 4th line, either at RW or LW, and Etem and Rodin will be in the mix and call play either wing. So there won't be a lot of room for an extra guy unless some the guys just mentioned are traded.

It's more about complimentary play styles and chemistry than '2nd' or '3rd' line or 'scoring' vs 'checking' lines.

 

We're not setting up as a 'standard' scoring 1, scoring 2, checking, energy lines team. 

 

And Horvat pairs best with guys like Hansen, Virtanen, Etem etc. Fast, physical guys with counter punch to their game. 

[harrytoolips]

4 hours ago, JamesB said:

Thanks for the reminder. Yes, I remember WD saying that he did not like Baertschi at 2LW and preferred him at 4LW. That did not make sense to me then and it makes even less sense to me now.

 

Baertischi was outstanding in junior, was a fairly high first round pick (#13 overall), did very well in the AHL after being acquired by Vancouver. Even in the NHL his numbers are not bad. He has 58 pts in 138 games for 0.42 PPG -- putting him in the high end of the 3rd line range and better than quite a few 2nd liners. And in the 2nd half of last year he was playing at a solid 2nd line level.

 

He is a young high-skill guy with excellent speed who made a lot of progress last year and should continue to make at least some progress this year. Playing in front of a decent defence (i.e. not like last year) and with good linemates he should have a good shot at 20 goals this year.. But he is not big and not physical. He is about as far away from being a 4th liner grinder as you can get. And playing him with Granlund on the 4th line with, presumably, Dorsett at RW makes no sense to me. It is a waste of Baertschi's skills and puts him a spot where he is unlikely to succeed.

 

I also remember the Sutter/Hansen idea for the 2nd line. I remember it, but I don't like it. That is a third line masquerading as a second line. 

 

I know that WD is a successful career coach and I am just a fan, so I am not saying I know better. I am saying that these personnel decisions (if they in fact happen) do not make sense to me. My prediction is that whatever line Horvat plays on will be the de facto second line (whatever WD calls it) and that Sutter should get the primary shutdown role. 

I agree, it would be totally moronic for WD to put Baertchi on the 4th line..the Nucks are supposed to mold him into being part of our future top 6..