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[Rumour] Trouba Wants Out


taizzzz5

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39 minutes ago, taizzzz5 said:

P.s how have the jets stunk for the majority of their existence?  On paper they always look solid. 

You have seen who they have in goal, haven't you?

 

Because the Jets players and fans unfortunately have.

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On 25/08/2016 at 6:23 AM, Nuckles80 said:

I am not sure why people think a 1-1 deal is 'So absurd'

 

Let's look at it objectively

 

1. Trouba is bigger and is more physical -ok points Trouba

2. Trouba 4 years younger and lower contract but will be likely making more than Tanev when he resigns - so adv Trouba but only marginally because of his next contract

3. Trouba has basically had the same number of points as Tanev over the last 2 years. Not sure why people are so 'high on him' when it comes to points - he's not even close to edler numbers for instance

4. Tanev is a far superior defender - and is arguably one of the top 5 defensive defenseman in the NHL. While Tanev is not a 'sexy' player he is a player that wins you games by shutting down other team's top lines (stats and eye test prove that out). People always seem to underestimate that talent.

5. Trouba doesn't do anything 'exceptionally'. Yes he was drafted high, yes he has alot of potential but Tanev is "proving" it and has and is only 26.

 

I think alot of people here are really underestimating the value of Chris Tanev. In my view, the bigger issue is Winnipeg really has no need for Tanev with Buff and Myers as their top 2 RD. Tanev for them is redundant and ill utilized as their 3rd RD (or Myers would be).

 

Trouba will be moved but not for another RD, that's likely why he will be moved, they don't want to be paying a 3rd RD 5 mil a year

tanev is not a top 5 defensive dman in the league, probably not even top 10. he's good, but not that good.

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1 minute ago, stawns said:

tanev is not a top 5 defensive dman in the league, probably not even top 10. he's good, but not that good.

List 'em who are better, that are defensive guys first.

 

Gudbranson is clearly better.

Boumiester is too.

Seabrook?

?

?

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Winnipeg doesn't value him and has been trying to under-sign him.

I can see this as being true. Would also believe if it wasn't.

Winnipeg is one bottom team that not only has a crap location (for weather, nightlife) but crap team with no relief in sight.

 

If Trouba is available the price will be high. But not as high as if he already had a contract. Teams are thinking, ok, we pay a ransom but then still have to deal with his agent?

 

Winnipeg has 4 guaranteed Dmen, plus 1-2 that can fill in the 5/6/7 roles. They will undoubtedly want an NHL D in return to start.

Sbisa plays a favourable game for a 5/6 guy.

Young, short contract. 

But what else would it take? My guess is nothing we are willing to give up that would beat out other teams.

 

 

 

 

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15 minutes ago, Alflives said:

List 'em who are better, that are defensive guys first.

 

Gudbranson is clearly better.

Boumiester is too.

Seabrook?

?

?

Of D that play a clear shutdown role (Seabrook doesn't qualify) I'd put guys like this in the pool:

 

Hjalmarsson, Vlasic, Tanev, Chara, Giordano, McDonagh, Pietrangelo....

 

That is based upon their quality of competition, their zone starts and their underlying possession numbers - those guys make up a class of elite hard minutes D, which you could arguably add a similar number of contending names, but on objective outcomes, they fit the bill.

There are some guys that are cut from more of a 'two way' mold that you can argue belong in this list, (and there are a few on this list that are 'two way' in addition to elite shutdown D, but on the criteria of the best of the best defensive blueliners, imo these guys make up the heart of the class.

 

Young emerging contenders:  Gudbranson, DuMoulin, Larsson, Alzner...

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4 minutes ago, insomniac604 said:

Winnipeg doesn't value him and has been trying to under-sign him.

I can see this as being true. Would also believe if it wasn't.

Winnipeg is one bottom team that not only has a crap location (for weather, nightlife) but crap team with no relief in sight.

 

If Trouba is available the price will be high. But not as high as if he already had a contract. Teams are thinking, ok, we pay a ransom but then still have to deal with his agent?

 

Winnipeg has 4 guaranteed Dmen, plus 1-2 that can fill in the 5/6/7 roles. They will undoubtedly want an NHL D in return to start.

Sbisa plays a favourable game for a 5/6 guy.

Young, short contract. 

But what else would it take? My guess is nothing we are willing to give up that would beat out other teams.

:lol: 

 

Holy balls. Like a train wreck, I couldn't look away. Then, when you think it couldn't get anymore "stereotypical CDC", the cherry on top at the end with "Hey guys, Sbisa and what else for him?"

 

JC. :picard: 

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1 minute ago, Monty said:

:lol: 

 

Holy balls. Like a train wreck, I couldn't look away. Then, when you think it couldn't get anymore "stereotypical CDC", the cherry on top at the end with "Hey guys, Sbisa and what else for him?"

 

JC.

There are posters suggesting Trouba has some off ice issues.  I wonder if other teams are very weary of some of these younger Jet's players after Buffalo's experience with E. Kane?  Red flags lower return, no?

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Just now, Alflives said:

There are posters suggesting Trouba has some off ice issues.  I wonder if other teams are very weary of some of these younger Jet's players after Buffalo's experience with E. Kane?  Red flags lower return, no?

Massive red flags with Kane, and look what Chevy managed to get for that overrated piece of garbage.

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1 hour ago, taizzzz5 said:

Please try and stay neutral ahahahah,

People have overrated  Trouba and underrated Tanev. Tanev isn't a secret anymore. The guy is a legit number 2 defencemen in the NHL. Just led Canada to a world championships  victory. You can even make the case for Tanev to be in the world cup team. 

 

P.s how have the jets stunk for the majority of their existence?  On paper they always look solid. 

No, Tanev is perfectly rated by every other fan base in the NHL. He is extremely overrated here. He didn't "lead" Canada to an World Championship, which is a very modest tournament usually missing a ton of key guys. 

No you cannot make a case for Tanev to be in World Cup of Hockey.

Keith 
Doughty
Weber
Subban
Hamhuis
Pietrangelo
Letang
Bouwmeester 
Burns 
Muzzin 
Vlasic
Giordano
Seabrook
Hamilton
Barrie
Green
Hamhuis
Phaneuf
Del Zotto
Beauchimen
Spurgeon
Boychuk
Markov (Canadian-Russian, can play either :P)

Either way, there are a ton of Canadian Dmen WAY AHEAD of Tanev on the depth chart...

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Just now, Monty said:

Massive red flags with Kane, and look what Chevy managed to get for that overrated piece of garbage.

I agree.  "Fool me one; shame on me.  Fool me twice..."  Other team's GMs (IMHAO) are going to be very weary of guys from the Jets with these red flags now, after Kane.  

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1 minute ago, Alflives said:

I agree.  "Fool me one; shame on me.  Fool me twice..."  Other team's GMs (IMHAO) are going to be very weary of guys from the Jets with these red flags now, after Kane.  

You'd think so, but you'd be incredibly wrong, as usual.

 

There was a quote a few years ago, forget which reporter it was and for which sport, but he said, "GMs didn't get to where they were at by not taking risks. They have egos, moreso then anyone else. So if there is a troubled player, they believe they can be the one to turn them around." And there are many examples of this happening and turning out fine, as well as some that haven't.

 

Be that as it may, the "CDC posters that are suggesting off ice issues", like the one nob who said that he does cocaine, are unsubstantiated and just downright ridiculous.

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14 minutes ago, 5Fivehole0 said:

No, Tanev is perfectly rated by every other fan base in the NHL. He is extremely overrated here. He didn't "lead" Canada to an World Championship, which is a very modest tournament usually missing a ton of key guys. 

No you cannot make a case for Tanev to be in World Cup of Hockey.

Keith 
Doughty
Weber
Subban
Hamhuis
Pietrangelo
Letang
Bouwmeester 
Burns 
Muzzin 
Vlasic
Giordano
Seabrook
Hamilton
Barrie
Green
Hamhuis
Phaneuf
Del Zotto
Beauchimen
Spurgeon
Boychuk
Markov (Canadian-Russian, can play either :P)

Either way, there are a ton of Canadian Dmen WAY AHEAD of Tanev on the depth chart...

Beachimen and Del zotto?!? Why not throw bieksa on the list too?

As I see it Tanev slides in right after Seabrook on that list. Tanev was the top pairing on worlds team. Don't think "lead" was a stretch. Yea he doesn't have enough to make the world cup I agree, but he is right there imo

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13 minutes ago, Alflives said:

There are posters suggesting Trouba has some off ice issues.  I wonder if other teams are very weary of some of these younger Jet's players after Buffalo's experience with E. Kane?  Red flags lower return, no?

Jacob Trouba's "red flag" is that he reportedly considers himself ready and worthy of a long term, premier deal.

 

In his defense though, he hasn't "regressed" as some people have suggested - and he's been far more consistent than the impression you'd get from people that look at a 'decline' in his production and jump to assumptions.

 

Quality of competition - strong and consistent through his three years.

Underlying numbers = ditto 

Zone starts....ditto again.

 

He's played the minutes typical of a 2nd pairing D - and he's generated some of, if not the best underlying numbers on the Jets blueline over his three seasons.  Only Byfuglien really compares, and you could argue that the cumulative possession numbers go to Trouba.

 

And he's only 22.

 

Add to that his 'grit' numbers - outstanding shot blocker (10th in the NHL with 177 last year), hits with mean intention - and his production - which is actually pretty good in context (28pts per 82) even if people expect 40 pts a year from any D with upside....

 

Has he quite earned a maximum term in the range of 6 million - probably not - and a bridge is probably most sensible - but there's not a lot of doubt that he'll be worth that in a couple years - and without gazing at pts alone, there's really nothing to indicate any 'regression'.

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7 minutes ago, taizzzz5 said:

Beachimen and Del zotto?!? Why not throw bieksa on the list too?

As I see it Tanev slides in right after Seabrook on that list. Tanev was the top pairing on worlds team. Don't think "lead" was a stretch. Yea he don't have enough to make the world cup I agree, but he is right there imo

That list wasn't in any particular order

If it was

Weber
Doughty
Keith
Pietrangelo
Burns
Vlasic
Muzzin
Bouwmeester
Letang
Subban
Giordano
Seabrook
Hamilton
Barrie
Boychuk
Green
Spurgeon
Phaneuf
Markov
Tanev
Hamhuis
Beauchimen
Del Zotto

I'll give you the last two, Tanev is better than them, but you're dreaming if you think he's just behind Seabrook...


 

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3 minutes ago, 5Fivehole0 said:

That list wasn't in any particular order

If it was

Weber
Doughty
Keith
Pietrangelo
Burns
Vlasic
Muzzin
Bouwmeester
Letang
Subban
Giordano
Seabrook
Hamilton
Barrie
Boychuk
Green
Spurgeon
Phaneuf
Markov
Tanev
Hamhuis
Beauchimen
Del Zotto

I'll give you the last two, Tanev is better than them, but you're dreaming if you think he's just behind Seabrook...


 

That's actually quite a good list.  Could I suggest Tanev slots in just above Hamilton, considering Hamilton's very poor defensive play?  

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9 minutes ago, 5Fivehole0 said:

That list wasn't in any particular order

If it was

Weber
Doughty
Keith
Pietrangelo
Burns
Vlasic
Muzzin
Bouwmeester
Letang
Subban
Giordano
Seabrook
Hamilton
Barrie
Boychuk
Green
Spurgeon
Phaneuf
Markov
Tanev
Hamhuis
Beauchimen
Del Zotto

I'll give you the last two, Tanev is better than them, but you're dreaming if you think he's just behind Seabrook...


 

Yup Imo still think he is behind Seabrook on this list

Top 5 for me are Keith, Doughty, Letang,Pietrangelo,weber burns at 6

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30 minutes ago, 5Fivehole0 said:

No, Tanev is perfectly rated by every other fan base in the NHL. He is extremely overrated here. He didn't "lead" Canada to an World Championship, which is a very modest tournament usually missing a ton of key guys. 

No you cannot make a case for Tanev to be in World Cup of Hockey.

Keith 
Doughty
Weber
Subban
Hamhuis
Pietrangelo
Letang
Bouwmeester 
Burns 
Muzzin 
Vlasic
Giordano
Seabrook
Hamilton
Barrie
Green
Hamhuis
Phaneuf
Del Zotto
Beauchimen
Spurgeon
Boychuk
Markov (Canadian-Russian, can play either :P)

Either way, there are a ton of Canadian Dmen WAY AHEAD of Tanev on the depth chart...

In fairness to Tanev, most of that list aren't really comparables.

 

There are only a few players on that list that play the kind of minutes he does - (Giordano, Vlasic)  - the vast majority of them enjoy high ozone starts, and weaker qualtiy of competition - don't really handle true shutdown minutes, although some of them are obviously outstanding two way and offensive blueliners.

 

All things considered, there are perhaps a dozen of those guys that should be considered of greater value - and about 10 whose possession numbers don't measure up imo (Bouwmeester, both Hamhuis' ::D,and everyone beneath).

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On 24/08/2016 at 8:06 PM, Realtor Rod said:

 

 

1 hour ago, 5Fivehole0 said:

Why?

We'd have Trouba and Gudbranson to fill the Tanev void. 

I really like the line of Edler Trouba, plus Trouba is a RHD, so it makes sense to pair him with a LHD.

Edler is only 30, it's not like his career is over.

Because Tanev is younger, on a cheaper deal with more term left and hasn't had any major injuries, like Edler's back injury.

 

Gudbrandson Is not nearly as good as Tanev and Trouba isn't the same type of player as Tanev. So you're not really replacing the void left by Tanev, but merely plugging a spot.

 

I would rather trade Gudbrandson and whatever else for Trouba; but I only had the choice of Tanev or Edler.

 

As for Edlers NTC... big whoop. If Benning asks him to waive he has to give him a list of I believe 5 teams. Tanev's NTC kicks in 17-18.

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