Odjick_fan Posted August 27, 2016 Share Posted August 27, 2016 I know y'all will prolly dis this proposal, but jus hear me out first haha. I think this proposal can be a win-win-win-win for everyone. To Canucks: Patrick Marleau and 2017 5th and 6th picks To Sharks: Ryan Miller, 2017 2nd and conditional 2018 2nd if he re-signs with Canucks Why does San Jose do this deal? 1) They need backup goalie for Jones 2) They are Salary Capped to the max 3) They have no 2nd round picks for the next 2 years 4) They will not have cap room next year to re-sign Marleau 5) Miller would sign a very reasonable offer next year just to remain in SJ Why does Marleau waive NMC? 1) He will be 2LW with Canucks and from what I've read on SJS news feeds, it looks like he will be 3rd line 2) He remains in Pacific Division close to his family 3) Canucks can re-sign him to a reasonable $3 mill cap hit next year with $2 mill in player bonuses (so he could make $5 mill next year with Canucks and only have a $3 mill cap hit) Why does Miller take trade? 1) He must have SJ listed in his top 5 teams he can be traded 2) He will be closer to his family 3) Nothing more favourable for him than this trade Why Canucks would consider this? 1) Marleau is consistent scorer 2) If it pans out, they can get a couple draft picks this year 3) Gives more time for youth movement Back up options for goalie could be Karri Ramo, Anders Lindback or in-house Bachman has NHL experience. I know Carey Price began his career right off in the big leagues but not sure how everyone would feel about Demko doing same. He could get a few games in this year for experience. What y'all think? lol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nucker 67 Posted August 27, 2016 Share Posted August 27, 2016 Would be intriguing to have Marleau as our 2LW, but he'll be 37 next month and has a NMC. He's only played for the Sharks and they were close to winning a Cup. Very close. Why would he waive to leave the only team he's known, who are still a Cup contender next year, to join a divisional rival in a rebuild? Won't happen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
goblix Posted August 27, 2016 Share Posted August 27, 2016 Hmm who's our backup/co-starter for this year? Markstrom not proven enough to be true #1 yet IMO. fair thoughts overall but think we would be better served to save our 2nds for prospects or proposals for younger options all the while keeping the spot opened for virtanen / Rodin / etem / baertschi to grow into that role. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
elvis15 Posted August 27, 2016 Share Posted August 27, 2016 1 hour ago, Odjick_fan said: ... 3) Canucks can re-sign him to a reasonable $3 mill cap hit next year with $2 mill in player bonuses (so he could make $5 mill next year with Canucks and only have a $3 mill cap hit) ... This is incorrect. Bonuses count against the cap just like salary, the only difference being once a bonus is no longer achievable it's dropped from the cap hit, and there is the possibility to defer it. So his cap hit would be $5M until his bonus(es) were no longer achievable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GettinGuddyWithIt Posted August 27, 2016 Share Posted August 27, 2016 Not giving out 2nd round picks for a soon to be 37 year old. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldnews Posted August 27, 2016 Share Posted August 27, 2016 overpayment imo. wouldn't give up either of those 2nds - would have to be a straight up hockey trade or what's the point? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bur14Kes17 Posted August 27, 2016 Share Posted August 27, 2016 Marleau doesn't want to leave SJ anymore though. He stated that at the end of the season so that kinda nixes everything. And that's major over payment on our part. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Odjick_fan Posted August 27, 2016 Author Share Posted August 27, 2016 14 minutes ago, elvis15 said: This is incorrect. Bonuses count against the cap just like salary, the only difference being once a bonus is no longer achievable it's dropped from the cap hit, and there is the possibility to defer it. So his cap hit would be $5M until his bonus(es) were no longer achievable. Ok yup https://www.capfriendly.com/players/jaromir-jagr have a look at this guys performance bonuses and cap hit each year Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
canucklehead80 Posted August 28, 2016 Share Posted August 28, 2016 If we were close to being a contender I could possibly see trading for an "older" player on the decline who could provide some leadership and scoring, but not a chance we should/would make this trade at this point. We're giving up a UFA goalie for a UFA winger on the decline? We're giving away a 2nd for a 5th & 6th? Yikes. I understand Marleau still has respectable numbers, as does Miller, but he won't be with the Thornton anymore, and not even the Sedins, so I'd be afraid his numbers won't continue to slide down the hill but go right over the cliff. I'd prefer to hang on the Miller and see what we can get at the TDL and see how some of our other guys develop. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
elvis15 Posted August 28, 2016 Share Posted August 28, 2016 3 hours ago, Odjick_fan said: Ok yup https://www.capfriendly.com/players/jaromir-jagr have a look at this guys performance bonuses and cap hit each year Yup, and you should have a read of the CBA, particularly section 50.5 (d): http://www.nhl.com/nhl/en/v3/ext/CBA2012/NHL_NHLPA_2013_CBA.pdf Quote ... "Averaged Club Salary" for each Club for that League Year shall be calculated as the sum of the Player Salary and Bonuses for that League Year for each and every Player ... Or, for an easier read, how about the site you referenced: https://www.capfriendly.com/faq#performance_bonus Quote A Performance Bonus can be given to a player in addition to their salary. Performance bonuses are only paid to the player if they meet the requirements as defined by the bonus. Performance bonuses count against the salary cap; however, a team can exceed the salary cap due to performance bonuses by the maximum performance bonus cushion amount of 7.5% of the upper limit. Or NHL Numbers: http://stats.nhlnumbers.com/faqs Quote All Bonuses are included in the Cap Hit calculation to illustrate the "worst-case" scenario for the team. If the bonuses aren't met, the player's Cap Hit will actually be lower. Therefore the current Cap Hit that you see may not be accurate. Which is what you're seeing, but trust me, they do count against the cap. So we can't give Marleau a $3M salary and $2M in performance bonuses if we only have $3M in cap space. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Odjick_fan Posted August 28, 2016 Author Share Posted August 28, 2016 29 minutes ago, elvis15 said: Yup, and you should have a read of the CBA, particularly section 50.5 (d): http://www.nhl.com/nhl/en/v3/ext/CBA2012/NHL_NHLPA_2013_CBA.pdf Or, for an easier read, how about the site you referenced: https://www.capfriendly.com/faq#performance_bonus Or NHL Numbers: http://stats.nhlnumbers.com/faqs Which is what you're seeing, but trust me, they do count against the cap. So we can't give Marleau a $3M salary and $2M in performance bonuses if we only have $3M in cap space. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
coastal.view Posted August 28, 2016 Share Posted August 28, 2016 7 hours ago, Odjick_fan said: Ok yup https://www.capfriendly.com/players/jaromir-jagr have a look at this guys performance bonuses and cap hit each year bonuses simply strengthen the guaranteed money in a contract any contract can be bought out for 2/3 or 1/3 of the remaining money owing under it the buyout fraction depends on years of service bonuses cannot be bought out in this fashion and must be paid 100% look at the david clarkson contract it is virtually buy out proof or the leafs would have bought him out Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hairy Kneel Posted August 28, 2016 Share Posted August 28, 2016 Let's not go old. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cripplereh Posted August 28, 2016 Share Posted August 28, 2016 maybe 7 years ago i would have said yes but no way not now at all!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Odjick_fan Posted August 30, 2016 Author Share Posted August 30, 2016 What is this guy smoking? hey wait that was my proposal lmao hahaha Ok so I way over thought this one. And yes way too old, Hartnell kinda sounds better when you think of this deal lol, that was my brainfart please disregard this boneheaded proposal of mine. I was thinking of a short term fix, when Nucks should just wait for TDL to see who would come knocking. I am sure teams are going to be losing awesome players like Nashville could look to lose Colin Wilson to expansion and not get anything in return. Would there be something there? I dunno and also NYI could lose one of a few good players that we could use like Nelson or De Haan. maybe GMJB best bet would be to wait for TDL and roll with what he has for now Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gollumpus Posted August 30, 2016 Share Posted August 30, 2016 On 8/27/2016 at 1:13 PM, Odjick_fan said: I know y'all will prolly dis this proposal, but jus hear me out first haha. I think this proposal can be a win-win-win-win for everyone. ...... What y'all think? lol Getting a guy like Marleau could have benefits in the team's development, however: 1.) While the Sharks might like to have Miller, I have my doubts that they would like him at $6 million as this seems a bit high for a back up goalie. Further, the Sharks are only gaining around $600,000+ if the two contracts were traded. While this is nothing to sneeze at, it's still not a big load off of their cap. Also, why wouldn't they look for a cheaper option in trade, or in a UFA for a back-up? 2.) What do the Sharks do to replace Marleau's scoring? That's 25 goals out of their line-up. 3.) The Sharks might be without a 2nd for the next two years, but this trade puts the Canucks without a 2nd. for possibly two years. This is a killer for me. 4.) There's a lot of hope in that the two players *could* re-sign with their new teams. I'd expect that it's just as likely that Marleau and Miller would both be more likely to sign with SJ (assuming a contract was offered). 5.) I'd be happier giving the ice time to a younger forward. 6.) Depending on how the season was going, if SJ were interested in Miller, then I'd be inclined to trade him there (with his consent) for picks and/or prospects at the trade deadline. As they are without any 2nds for the next while, and they are unlikely to want to trade a 1st straight up for Miller, then I'd go with a 3rd and a very good prospect, or, a 1st for Miller and a 2nd Option #2 is likely more acceptable to them as it could just be like trading down several spots (assuming the Canucks do poorly this upcoming season). regards, G.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gollumpus Posted August 30, 2016 Share Posted August 30, 2016 16 minutes ago, Gollumpus said: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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