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Why Your Team Sucks: Vancouver Canucks


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2 minutes ago, Alflives said:

Nolan Patrick, isn't he projected as a number one centre?  How in the heck do we get this elite replacement for Henrik, if not through the draft?

Did San Jose draft Thornton? Did Dallas draft Seguin? Were Kuznetsov, Pavelski, Kopitar, Backstrom, Giroux or Bergeron top draft picks? Nope to all of them. That's 8 of last seasons top 10 producing centers that weren`t acquired the way you seem to believe is the only way to get them.

 

I keep saying there's more than one way to skin a cat, but Alf chooses to ignore it.

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15 minutes ago, canucklehead44 said:

It is definitely a win - win scenario if you look at it positively. As long we we don't end up in between 9th - 11th in the west I will be happy. If we squeeze into the playoffs and get bounced first round, the run leading to the playoffs is so exciting and the team will at least be adequately good. As someone who watches 60+ games per year I really want to see the team either competitive (far more entertaining) OR giving some young guns a chance (IE a complete gong show). 

In your opinion, what is better for the team long term? Crash and burn, get another top 5 pick OR barely make it into the playoffs with a mix of vets & young guns, and sprinkle young players into a winning environment?

Personally, I think we have the foundation (other than a #1 center) to build a really good team in the future, and it is much easier to bring young guys along properly on an average-good team than a crap team. 

Although if Edmonton moved to respectability around Hall and Nugent-Hopkins (two great pieces to build around) plus Eberle, Klefbom, and Gagner they never would have drafted Nurse, Draisaitl, and McDavid. They still suck, but hard to really say if they would be better in say 3-4 years if they were a decent team over the last few years. 

You could also argue that if they finished around .500 in 2011-2012 that there is a good chance they would have drafted Forsberg or Trouba (depending on what they needed), making them better off than Yakupov. In 2012-2013 it they drafted 16th, taking Zadorov as their dman instead of Nurse. 

Tonnes of "what-ifs", if not for McDavid I strongly believe they would be miles ahead if they were not a crap team over the past few years. McDavid tips the scale though, and generational players are far from a guarantee. 
 

The Sedins ,Edler and Tanev are all still good players,as long as they are healthy,it would be tough for this team to crash and burn...IMO...Also,how many rookies can you realistically put into an NHL lineup per year..?..There has to be a fine balance there,as we can all see what happened last year when they were thrown into the deep end (mostly due to injuries)

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4 minutes ago, Alflives said:

Maybe, if we suck because we don't have a young replacement for Henrick, we could use Tane + the Torts second to get one?  Draisatl or Sam Reinhart?  Reinhart could certainly make that Krejici - Bergeron combo.  

 

2 minutes ago, Baggins said:

Did San Jose draft Thornton? Did Dallas draft Seguin? Were Kuznetsov, Pavelski, Kopitar, Backstrom, Giroux or Bergeron top draft picks? Nope to all of them. That's 8 of last seasons top 10 producing centers that weren`t acquired the way you seem to believe is the only way to get them.

 

I keep saying there's more than one way to skin a cat, but Alf chooses to ignore it.

See his post above, actually great suggestions. Edmonton has Nuge, McDavid, Draisatil. Buffalo has Eichel, Reinhart, and O'Reilly. Florida has Barkov, Bjugstad, and Trotchek. 

McDavid, Eichel, and Barkov are untouchable. Out of the players above, Reinhart and Bjugstad could be acquired for the right package. 

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46 minutes ago, canucklehead44 said:

 

See his post above, actually great suggestions. Edmonton has Nuge, McDavid, Draisatil. Buffalo has Eichel, Reinhart, and O'Reilly. Florida has Barkov, Bjugstad, and Trotchek. 

McDavid, Eichel, and Barkov are untouchable. Out of the players above, Reinhart and Bjugstad could be acquired for the right package. 

I kinda doubt that - although with Florida's new management, who knows?  If they're corsi gazing and are willing to move him, he'd be one hell of a take.

 

Him and Horvat together as middle six Cs - nasty to play against 

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14 hours ago, 5Fivehole0 said:

Sutter isn't an elite player like they are, he is no Selke Candidate, but stop acting like Bonino was.

Well that's a quick turnaround just one post ago you were comparing Sutter to Toews/Kesler!  I never mentioned Bonino in any sense other than being better than Sutter.  Even though he's never shown anything in his career to indicate he's a good shut down C. 

 

Sutter isn't a 30 goal scorer, and he's not a Selke contender, he's a shut down centre. He is a defensive forward. He plays hard minutes and takes the important faceoffs.

Why would you send Sutter, who is below average at faceoffs to take the important ones when you have Horvat with a career FO% of 51.1% and Henrik to take the offensive ones.  Why was management saying Sutter is a good goal scorer and not that he's some shut down player when he was brought in? 

I won't say you know nothing about hockey, but you sure as hell know nothing about Sutter or the position he plays.

I know Bonino has been better than Sutter throughout his career (especially in the playoffs, you know.. the part of the season that really counts) and I know better than to compare Sutter to Toews/Kesler.  But please.. keep your clown show going it's quite entertaining. 

 

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6 hours ago, CanadianRugby said:

Sutter isn't an elite player like they are, he is no Selke Candidate, but stop acting like Bonino was.

Well that's a quick turnaround just one post ago you were comparing Sutter to Toews/Kesler!  I never mentioned Bonino in any sense other than being better than Sutter.  Even though he's never shown anything in his career to indicate he's a good shut down C. 

 

Sutter isn't a 30 goal scorer, and he's not a Selke contender, he's a shut down centre. He is a defensive forward. He plays hard minutes and takes the important faceoffs.

Why would you send Sutter, who is below average at faceoffs to take the important ones when you have Horvat with a career FO% of 51.1% and Henrik to take the offensive ones.  Why was management saying Sutter is a good goal scorer and not that he's some shut down player when he was brought in?  

I'll just copy and paste this.

Sutter will never win a Selke, you're right, neither would have Malhortra, or Richardson, Vermette, Bozak. Fischer, Lecavalier, Backes, O'Rielly, Couturier, Nielson...etc... That doesn't change the fact that they are shutdown centres. They are used to stifle the opponents offense. They take a majority of defensive draws and play on the PK. 

I won't say you know nothing about hockey, but you sure as hell know nothing about Sutter or the position he plays.

I know Bonino has been better than Sutter throughout his career (especially in the playoffs, you know.. the part of the season that really counts) and I know better than to compare Sutter to Toews/Kesler.  But please.. keep your clown show going it's quite entertaining.
 


This is pointless. You have no idea what you are talking about, you completely disregarded everything I said and pick and chose snippets out of what I said and then replied pointless garbage. 

2015
 

151 Brandon Sutter VAN C 278 146 132 52.5%
66 Nick Bonino PIT C 918 463 455 50.4%

 

2014

19 Brandon Sutter PIT C 1,359 688 671 50.6%
Nick Bonino VAN C 1,245 590 655 47.4%

 

2013
 

48 Brandon Sutter PIT C 1,150 549 601 47.7%
Nick Bonino ANH C 1,194 583 611 48.8%

 

2012
 

Brandon Sutter PIT C 761 382 379 50.2%
Nick Bonino ANH C 295 138 157 46.8%

2011

Brandon Sutter CAR C 1,295 654 641 50.5%
Nick Bonino ANH C 454 195 259 43.0%


In the past 5 seasons, Sutter has only finished below 50% once, and Bonino? Not so hot, eh?

Any other pointless garbage you'd like to bring up? He's a shutdown C, and considered pretty good at it too. So I say again. You're wrong, and you need to give up, because you just make %#^@ up as you go. 

And yes, I do compare Sutter to Toews and Kesler, because he plays the same game as them. Probably not quite as good, but its the same.

 

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On ‎2016‎-‎09‎-‎02 at 9:37 PM, 5Fivehole0 said:


This is pointless. You have no idea what you are talking about, you completely disregarded everything I said and pick and chose snippets out of what I said and then replied pointless garbage. 

2015
 

151 Brandon Sutter VAN C 278 146 132 52.5%
66 Nick Bonino PIT C 918 463 455 50.4%

 

2014

19 Brandon Sutter PIT C 1,359 688 671 50.6%
Nick Bonino VAN C 1,245 590 655 47.4%

 

2013
 

48 Brandon Sutter PIT C 1,150 549 601 47.7%
Nick Bonino ANH C 1,194 583 611 48.8%

 

2012
 

Brandon Sutter PIT C 761 382 379 50.2%
Nick Bonino ANH C 295 138 157 46.8%

2011

Brandon Sutter CAR C 1,295 654 641 50.5%
Nick Bonino ANH C 454 195 259 43.0%


In the past 5 seasons, Sutter has only finished below 50% once, and Bonino? Not so hot, eh?

Any other pointless garbage you'd like to bring up? He's a shutdown C, and considered pretty good at it too. So I say again. You're wrong, and you need to give up, because you just make %#^@ up as you go. 

And yes, I do compare Sutter to Toews and Kesler, because he plays the same game as them. Probably not quite as good, but its the same.

 

Well if career stats are pointless garbage and you want to cherry pick years to support your argument here's a stat for the last 3 seasons playoffs included.

 

Bonino - 150 Points

Sutter  -  78 Points

 

But I'm sure Bonino scoring twice as many points is offset by Sutter having a career FO% of 1% higher.  But why am I trying to reason with a guy that thinks Sutter is like Toews.  Let me guess, Baertschi is like Gretzky because they both score goals?  Miller is like Hasek because they're both goalies?  Man with all these sick players how aren't we winning the Cup every year.

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26 minutes ago, CanadianRugby said:

Well if career stats are pointless garbage and you want to cherry pick years to support your argument here's a stat for the last 3 seasons playoffs included.

 

Bonino - 150 Points

Sutter  -  78 Points

 

But I'm sure Bonino scoring twice as many points is offset by Sutter having a career FO% of 1% higher.  But why am I trying to reason with a guy that thinks Sutter is like Toews.  Let me guess, Baertschi is like Gretzky because they both score goals?  Miller is like Hasek because they're both goalies?  Man with all these sick players how aren't we winning the Cup every year.

Maybe both these players are not that special, and easily replaced?

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18 minutes ago, Alflives said:

Maybe both these players are not that special, and easily replaced?

Nail on head

 

Both of these players are easily replaceable third line players. Both are very soft players to play against . Do not hit. Do not go in to the hard to play areas.....

 

Fans in Pitsburg were ecstatic to see Sutter moved.  Sutter  makes his line mates worse as he can not distribute the puck.

 

Once again Alf hits the nail on the head. Both players are third liners  and not hard to replace.....

 

I would prefer Bonino as  i think he is a better passer  though.........

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1 minute ago, kingofsurrey said:

Nail on head

 

Both of these players are easily replaceable third line players. Both are very soft players to play against . Do not hit. Do not go in to the hard to play areas.....

 

Fans in Pitsburg were ecstatic to see Sutter moved.  Sutter  makes his line mates worse as he can not distribute the puck.

 

Once again Alf hits the nail on the head. Both players are third liners  and not hard to replace.........

Listening to TSN 1040 right now, and there is a commercial for a cat magnet.  Damn, I gotta get me one of those!  :lol:

 

im afraid we have a lot of (what some posters call) place holders on our current team.  Hopefully JB can find the young replacements drafting where he does.

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2 minutes ago, Alflives said:

Listening to TSN 1040 right now, and there is a commercial for a cat magnet.  Damn, I gotta get me one of those!  :lol:

 

im afraid we have a lot of (what some posters call) place holders on our current team.  Hopefully JB can find the young replacements drafting where he does.

Agreed. The real problem was the insane contract JB gave Sutter.....

 

JB  has really given  out some contracts that do not make sense and can put our clubs internal salary structure out of whack.

 

4.5 mil for a 3rd line centre simply makes zero sense.....

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Just now, kingofsurrey said:

Agreed. The real problem was the insane contract JB gave Sutter.....

 

JB  has really given  out some contracts that do not make sense and can put our clubs internal salary structure out of whack.

Bonino, although nothing special in my books, was (at least) on a really good contract, wasn't he?

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12 minutes ago, Alflives said:

Bonino, although nothing special in my books, was (at least) on a really good contract, wasn't he?

He still is, 1.9M through to the end of this next season.. 

I still like the Sutter acquisition, no way Bonino would of been as effective here, happy for him.

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2 hours ago, CanadianRugby said:

Well if career stats are pointless garbage and you want to cherry pick years to support your argument here's a stat for the last 3 seasons playoffs included.

 

Bonino - 150 Points

Sutter  -  78 Points

 

But I'm sure Bonino scoring twice as many points is offset by Sutter having a career FO% of 1% higher.  But why am I trying to reason with a guy that thinks Sutter is like Toews.  Let me guess, Baertschi is like Gretzky because they both score goals?  Miller is like Hasek because they're both goalies?  Man with all these sick players how aren't we winning the Cup every year.

I wasn't cherry picking. Players improve as they get closer to 30, so I used the 5 most recent years. I love that you got shut down on your face-off argument so now it's a moot point. The last 5 recent seasons is cherry picking. So by your standards the Sedins are still elite talent of the league because of career averages, and Edler is still a Norris candidate.

Also, last 3 seasons + playoffs? Bonino played for the Ducks, and went to the SCF recently, and Sutter was injured pretty well the whole season, so that's extremely skewed.

Toews is the best shut down C in the league, hands down, bar none. He is the pinnacle of shut down centres. Bergeron is probably next, followed by Kopitar, and Kesler. Just because those guys are amazing, doesn't mean that anyone who is not them can't play that style of game. I don't understand what you don't get about that.

Baertschi is a playmaker. He's got vision, moves the puck up the ice and makes good passes. So no, he's not like Gretzky. Comparables would be Martin St Louis, Daniel Sedin, Hossa(who's more of a 2 way forward), Gaudreau etc... Now, don't all excited and start slamming your face into the keyboard, I'm not saying he's as good as them. I'm saying those are playmakers, those are comparables, those are guys who make good passes. Will he ever be as good as them? Most likely not.

Miller is an older goalie, he's a butterfly tendy. He's from the age where it was all butterfly. So no, he's not like Hasek, and you're talking like Miller is, and always has been a terrible goalie. There was a time where he was possibly the best in the league. Miller is someone you would compare someone to, he has his own game, he has made advances in the position. He paved the way for other goalies to imitate. He's obviously no where near as good as he was in his prime, but he's still serviceable.

My point is, just because someone says, "Oh this guy is like *insert star player here*", doesn't mean they are saying they are as good as them, they are saying they play the game that that guy has made a career out of. Sutters just happens to be shut down centre. 

A lot of Sutters career stats are bogged down coming into the league at 20, the same as Horvats +/- and possession numbers are completely trashed. Younger players tend to have a more difficult time transitioning. Now before you smash your face into the keyboard, Horvats a good player, and has a lot of promise. He will get better as time goes on, like Sutter did. Calm down, I'm not saying Sutter is Horvats ceiling. 

And yes, before you ask, the Canucks are trying to groom Horvat into a Sutter type player. A shut down C, a defensive forward. He will probably end up better than Sutter, which is great, but that doesn't mean Sutter is bad. 

Now start picking and choosing snippets out of this wall of text and reply back with 6 sentences, 3 being pointless questions.

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1 hour ago, Laheys Liquor said:

He still is, 1.9M through to the end of this next season.. 

I still like the Sutter acquisition, no way Bonino would of been as effective here, happy for him.

Exactly, Bonino wouldn't be having the success he had in Pittsburgh here.

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2 hours ago, CanadianRugby said:

Well if career stats are pointless garbage and you want to cherry pick years to support your argument here's a stat for the last 3 seasons playoffs included.

 

Bonino - 150 Points

Sutter  -  78 Points

 

But I'm sure Bonino scoring twice as many points is offset by Sutter having a career FO% of 1% higher.  But why am I trying to reason with a guy that thinks Sutter is like Toews.  Let me guess, Baertschi is like Gretzky because they both score goals?  Miller is like Hasek because they're both goalies?  Man with all these sick players how aren't we winning the Cup every year.

I'd like to know your opinion on Sean Couturier. 

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