Proposal - Van / Philly

[Nuckles80]

So this trade may be a 'hard' one to pull of depending on Philly's season this year vs ours  but it's something I have thought about for a while.

 

Assuming Philly wants to make a run given Simmons, Giroux, Mason, and Voracek (their core) are all 27/28 and in their prime, and they seem (after last year) to be a few pieces away from being able to take a serious run at a cup - the following trade could help them bolster their back end for the next 3-5 years and provide a strong piece to that end.

 

Now their willingness to make this trade could be and will be what most people focus on, which is fair but my argument is simple:

 

1. Their window is now open - you have a 4-5 year chance, as we did with the twins in their prime. That window closes quickly as we all know

 

2. Their blue line is weak as it stands right now. It needs help and we all know experienced top 2 dmen come at a premium

 

3.  This trade has the ability to be 'impactful' to their blueline, their team in general and has to be considered under that 'construct' ie what would such a player mean to their chances and team. It won't put them over the top, but it puts them 'in the running', that if they get hot at the right time, they 'could' make a run.

 

So...without further adieu!

 

Trade

Edler, 2017 2nd for Provorov.

 

Again, I understand that Provorov is a stud prospect, but:

 

A. He's never played in the NHL and the question will be, is Philly close enough to think they can make a run if they bolster their D.

 

B. If willing to make a move to improve their back end, can Philly also realistically get a player of Edler's calibre (and as much as people hate on him he is still an excellent 2d on a very reasonable contract) for cheaper? Look at what Larsen got.

 

C. His impact creates some depth on the 2nd PP unit and having Ghost on the full 2 mins would open him up for clean shots, and he has a heavy one

 

D. Philly's top 4 becomes much stronger with his addition. Edler eats alot of minutes and has shown makes Tanev better (this is fact), he has alot of value.

 

Now I know Provorov is a stud, but people here do tend to overestimate the value of unproven players over proven players. Look at the Gud/McCann deal. Dmen are at a premium in the NHL right now.

In fact, adding a second could be an overpayment when you consider for example, a player like Griffin Reinhart, who was a 4th overall pick and expected to be a dominant dman in the league hasn't done much of anything. Provorov has better numbers but Reinhart was still highly touted - thus showing that 'prospect expectations' don't always = results at the NHL level.

 

For us, Provorov gives us the "potential" 1d we are looking for. He's no Doughty but with Juloevi could create one HELL of a  1-2 punch in the future.

 

 

 

Thoughts?

[Alflives]

Too much to give up for a player like Provorov.  Rather get Sergachev from the Habs.

[Nuckles80]

5 minutes ago, Alflives said:

Too much to give up for a player like Provorov.  Rather get Sergachev from the Habs.

Provorov is a much better player than Sergachev at both ends of the ice. He dominated at the World Juniors. He does have #1 written all over him. Sergachev even at his best offensive upside could only match Provorov and he won't be as solid defensively

 

Provorov put up more points in a lower scoring league of the WHL and a more defensively minded league, one that is known for developing stud dmen and strong 3/4 line forwards -  He is by far the better player

[Alflives]

3 minutes ago, Nuckles80 said:

Provorov is a much better player than Sergachev at both ends of the ice. He dominated at the World Juniors. He does have #1 written all over him. Sergachev even at his best offensive upside could only match Provorov and he won't be as solid defensively

 

Provorov put up more points in a lower scoring league of the WHL and a more defensively minded league, one that is known for developing stud dmen and strong 3/4 line forwards -  He is by far the better player

Okay.  IMHAO, Sergachev has a meanness that makes him more effective. 

[mll]

Doesn't work cap wise for Philadelphia.  They are looking to add a top-6 F but don't have the cap space.  

They are actually not trying to adjust their D because they expect some of their younger players to challenge for spots in the next couple of years.   

[Nuckles80]

Just now, Alflives said:

Okay.  IMHAO, Sergachev has a meanness that makes him more effective. 

Fair enough, but Provorov is a physical player too, hits hard and is effective, just not as much of a reckless player. We have Tryamkin/Pedan/Gud, we don't need another nut job! lol

[Alflives]

Just now, Nuckles80 said:

Fair enough, but Provorov is a physical player too, hits hard and is effective, just not as much of a reckless player. We have Tryamkin/Pedan/Gud, we don't need another nut job! lol

Okay, I'm in.  Edler straight up.

[Nuckles80]

1 minute ago, mll said:

Doesn't work cap wise for Philadelphia.  They are looking to add a top-6 F but don't have the cap space.  

They are actually not trying to adjust their D because they expect some of their younger players to challenge for spots in the next couple of years.   

Cap issues can always be worked around. Your point on 'next couple of years' though somewhat ignores the basis of my argument:

 

Philly's window has just now opened. Those windows usually last 4-5 years some if lucky can push it longer but few do.

 

Waiting a couple of years, for a dman to get to the NHL, then taking another 2-3 years to really find a way to be an impact player means window just closed

 

Edler brings them what they need NOW....question is as I said, does Philly think that way or feel going with a young inexperienced D can get them through, teams seldom can with that type of defense.

[mll]

1 minute ago, Nuckles80 said:

Cap issues can always be worked around. Your point on 'next couple of years' though somewhat ignores the basis of my argument:

 

Philly's window has just now opened. Those windows usually last 4-5 years some if lucky can push it longer but few do.

 

Waiting a couple of years, for a dman to get to the NHL, then taking another 2-3 years to really find a way to be an impact player means window just closed

 

Edler brings them what they need NOW....question is as I said, does Philly think that way or feel going with a young inexperienced D can get them through, teams seldom can with that type of defense.

Their biggest problem next year is not D - it's F.  If they are willing/able to find cap space it's to improve their top-6.  On D they can go with what they have and reconsider in a year.  It's not worth moving Provorov for them when it's not addressing their real area of need.

[ItsMillerTime]

Canucks in but not the flyers.

[TheHockeyNerds]

With

1 hour ago, Nuckles80 said:

So this trade may be a 'hard' one to pull of depending on Philly's season this year vs ours  but it's something I have thought about for a while.

 

Assuming Philly wants to make a run given Simmons, Giroux, Mason, and Voracek (their core) are all 27/28 and in their prime, and they seem (after last year) to be a few pieces away from being able to take a serious run at a cup - the following trade could help them bolster their back end for the next 3-5 years and provide a strong piece to that end.

 

Now their willingness to make this trade could be and will be what most people focus on, which is fair but my argument is simple:

 

1. Their window is now open - you have a 4-5 year chance, as we did with the twins in their prime. That window closes quickly as we all know

 

2. Their blue line is weak as it stands right now. It needs help and we all know experienced top 2 dmen come at a premium

 

3.  This trade has the ability to be 'impactful' to their blueline, their team in general and has to be considered under that 'construct' ie what would such a player mean to their chances and team. It won't put them over the top, but it puts them 'in the running', that if they get hot at the right time, they 'could' make a run.

 

So...without further adieu!

 

Trade

Edler, 2017 2nd for Provorov.

 

Again, I understand that Provorov is a stud prospect, but:

 

A. He's never played in the NHL and the question will be, is Philly close enough to think they can make a run if they bolster their D.

 

B. If willing to make a move to improve their back end, can Philly also realistically get a player of Edler's calibre (and as much as people hate on him he is still an excellent 2d on a very reasonable contract) for cheaper? Look at what Larsen got.

 

C. His impact creates some depth on the 2nd PP unit and having Ghost on the full 2 mins would open him up for clean shots, and he has a heavy one

 

D. Philly's top 4 becomes much stronger with his addition. Edler eats alot of minutes and has shown makes Tanev better (this is fact), he has alot of value.

 

Now I know Provorov is a stud, but people here do tend to overestimate the value of unproven players over proven players. Look at the Gud/McCann deal. Dmen are at a premium in the NHL right now.

In fact, adding a second could be an overpayment when you consider for example, a player like Griffin Reinhart, who was a 4th overall pick and expected to be a dominant dman in the league hasn't done much of anything. Provorov has better numbers but Reinhart was still highly touted - thus showing that 'prospect expectations' don't always = results at the NHL level.

 

For us, Provorov gives us the "potential" 1d we are looking for. He's no Doughty but with Juloevi could create one HELL of a  1-2 punch in the future.

 

 

 

Thoughts?

all due respect, It's proposals like these that have Canuck fans up in arms when we do make a trade becuase these trade proposals makes perception a lot different Than reality. In no world would philly make this trade. I know we were closer to "rebuilding" than the flyers but if you flip this trade around would u take Michael del zotto, 2nd, 3rd for juoelvi? Absolutely not. 

[Madness]

No chance Philly does this. 

[Madness]

1 hour ago, Alflives said:

Too much to give up for a player like Provorov.  Rather get Sergachev from the Habs.

 

Provorov is the better player. Not even close. 

[Calvin's Dog]

First time post. Love this section of the boards.

 

i think Philly is a potential trading partner but I don't think Provorov is a realistic target.

 

i also wonder if the Canucks have anything that Philly would really want. So I think a 3rd team is a potential avenue.

 

I was thinking that if Winnepeg was seriously shopping Trouba, maybe a trade for a right hand defenceman  for Philly might be of interest.

 

The question then becomes what do we have that Winnepeg might want?

 

I think they need left handed D but I doubt they are interested in Sbisa.

 

I know it wouldn't be popular but I wonder if Winnepeg would take an expansion protected sophomore like Hutton as a central piece to a trade?

 

I know hatters going to hate.

 

but with Juolevi coming up in as few as two years, we have lots of lefty's in the meantime.

 

I wonder if something like this would work:

 

To Philly: Trouba, Dano

 

To Winnepeg: Hutton, Hanson

 

To Vancouver: Braydon Shenn, Sanheim.

 

Winnepeg gets a young expansion protected D on the left side and leadership, grit and speed and some scoring behind Wheeler. They need playoffs for some interim credibility and this could help them.

 

Philly gets stud dman on right side  and a young scorer (who Winnepeg) might not be able to protect either.

 

Van gets the coveted left side/centreman it wants and a very solid left d prospect who is a few years behind Hutton.

 

It know we might have to add picks or something and I wish we could get something for nothing (love Hutton and Honey Badger) but if I were GM I might sign off on this.

 

 

[Knucks16]

35 minutes ago, Calvin's Dog said:

First time post. Love this section of the boards.

 

i think Philly is a potential trading partner but I don't think Provorov is a realistic target.

 

i also wonder if the Canucks have anything that Philly would really want. So I think a 3rd team is a potential avenue.

 

I was thinking that if Winnepeg was seriously shopping Trouba, maybe a trade for a right hand defenceman  for Philly might be of interest.

 

The question then becomes what do we have that Winnepeg might want?

 

I think they need left handed D but I doubt they are interested in Sbisa.

 

I know it wouldn't be popular but I wonder if Winnepeg would take an expansion protected sophomore like Hutton as a central piece to a trade?

 

I know hatters going to hate.

 

but with Juolevi coming up in as few as two years, we have lots of lefty's in the meantime.

 

I wonder if something like this would work:

 

To Philly: Trouba, Dano

 

To Winnepeg: Hutton, Hanson

 

To Vancouver: Braydon Shenn, Sanheim.

 

Winnepeg gets a young expansion protected D on the left side and leadership, grit and speed and some scoring behind Wheeler. They need playoffs for some interim credibility and this could help them.

 

Philly gets stud dman on right side  and a young scorer (who Winnepeg) might not be able to protect either.

 

Van gets the coveted left side/centreman it wants and a very solid left d prospect who is a few years behind Hutton.

 

It know we might have to add picks or something and I wish we could get something for nothing (love Hutton and Honey Badger) but if I were GM I might sign off on this.

 

 

if I were to trade Edler, it would be for a proven nhler. preferred, a young forward with lots of potential;)

[flickyoursedin]

Of all the d prospects Provorov is the one they'd keep. Maybe try and pry Sanhiem from them in a similar trade with Edler going the other way. Maybe with us getting the 2nd rounder for once lol.

[GB5]

3 hours ago, Calvin's Dog said:

First time post. Love this section of the boards.

 

i think Philly is a potential trading partner but I don't think Provorov is a realistic target.

 

i also wonder if the Canucks have anything that Philly would really want. So I think a 3rd team is a potential avenue.

 

I was thinking that if Winnepeg was seriously shopping Trouba, maybe a trade for a right hand defenceman  for Philly might be of interest.

 

The question then becomes what do we have that Winnepeg might want?

 

I think they need left handed D but I doubt they are interested in Sbisa.

 

I know it wouldn't be popular but I wonder if Winnepeg would take an expansion protected sophomore like Hutton as a central piece to a trade?

 

I know hatters going to hate.

 

but with Juolevi coming up in as few as two years, we have lots of lefty's in the meantime.

 

I wonder if something like this would work:

 

To Philly: Trouba, Dano

 

To Winnepeg: Hutton, Hanson

 

To Vancouver: Braydon Shenn, Sanheim.

 

Winnepeg gets a young expansion protected D on the left side and leadership, grit and speed and some scoring behind Wheeler. They need playoffs for some interim credibility and this could help them.

 

Philly gets stud dman on right side  and a young scorer (who Winnepeg) might not be able to protect either.

 

Van gets the coveted left side/centreman it wants and a very solid left d prospect who is a few years behind Hutton.

 

It know we might have to add picks or something and I wish we could get something for nothing (love Hutton and Honey Badger) but if I were GM I might sign off on this.

 

 

Nice first post..

 

I think maybe a guy like Dano would be more of what Benning would be looking for in a return for Edler, likely not Dano himself but someone in that age range who is on a team with a crowded forward bench and in need of defensemen. 

 

Either that or the Canucks try to pull off a blockbuster to get that elusive future first line forward 

[Nuckles80]

8 hours ago, mll said:

Their biggest problem next year is not D - it's F.  If they are willing/able to find cap space it's to improve their top-6.  On D they can go with what they have and reconsider in a year.  It's not worth moving Provorov for them when it's not addressing their real area of need.

Biggest problem is forward? I beg to differ

 

Top 6 has:

 

Giroux

Voracek

Simmons

Coutourier

Schenn

 

I think most teams would be drooling over that, are you sure we're both talking about the Philadelphia Flyers? Bottoms 6 isn't bad and those type of players are easy enough to find

Sorry but you're incorrect in your logic here

[Nuckles80]

6 hours ago, Calvin's Dog said:

First time post. Love this section of the boards.

 

i think Philly is a potential trading partner but I don't think Provorov is a realistic target.

 

i also wonder if the Canucks have anything that Philly would really want. So I think a 3rd team is a potential avenue.

 

I was thinking that if Winnepeg was seriously shopping Trouba, maybe a trade for a right hand defenceman  for Philly might be of interest.

 

The question then becomes what do we have that Winnepeg might want?

 

I think they need left handed D but I doubt they are interested in Sbisa.

 

I know it wouldn't be popular but I wonder if Winnepeg would take an expansion protected sophomore like Hutton as a central piece to a trade?

 

I know hatters going to hate.

 

but with Juolevi coming up in as few as two years, we have lots of lefty's in the meantime.

 

I wonder if something like this would work:

 

To Philly: Trouba, Dano

 

To Winnepeg: Hutton, Hanson

 

To Vancouver: Braydon Shenn, Sanheim.

 

Winnepeg gets a young expansion protected D on the left side and leadership, grit and speed and some scoring behind Wheeler. They need playoffs for some interim credibility and this could help them.

 

Philly gets stud dman on right side  and a young scorer (who Winnepeg) might not be able to protect either.

 

Van gets the coveted left side/centreman it wants and a very solid left d prospect who is a few years behind Hutton.

 

It know we might have to add picks or something and I wish we could get something for nothing (love Hutton and Honey Badger) but if I were GM I might sign off on this.

 

 

Not a bad trade - I like provorov and that's why I brought this up -in fact I wish we had moved McCann for him vs Gud (even though I like that trade)- I just think Provorov has the ability to be that real dominant all around defenseman we are missing.

 

On your trade, three way trades with that many players are virtually impossible. While I like the ideas, in operational reality its just too difficult, too many moving parts.

 

I also would ask, why wouldn't Winnipeg and Philly just trade with each other. Trouba/Dano for Schenn and Sanheim is pretty even. We kind of try to sneak in the middle of that but they don't really need us. Winnipeg needs a young 2c and Sanheim is a LD who's not expansion eligible. He's got alot of upside (and while not as far ahead as hutton, he's younger).

[Nuckles80]

2 hours ago, GarthButcher5 said:

Nice first post..

 

I think maybe a guy like Dano would be more of what Benning would be looking for in a return for Edler, likely not Dano himself but someone in that age range who is on a team with a crowded forward bench and in need of defensemen. 

 

Either that or the Canucks try to pull off a blockbuster to get that elusive future first line forward 

Dano is 5'11 183 - he's basically Sven. I don't see a trade of a top 2 dman being made for a player like Sven. Simply because its not enough, and we already have a Sven who's doing very well!

As I said, many people really do undervalue Edler -this is a perfect example in my opinion