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Benning on 1040 September 19th


Ossi Vaananen

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6 hours ago, stawns said:

the first game, I felt he was the best canuck on the ice, without question.  he allowed Stetcher to play and aggressive game, which was a great compliment to Stetcher's game.  He's not flashy, but smooth, solid and mature.  yesterday his game fell off a bit, and he made some glaring mistakes, but he also made a ton of smart plays that go un-noticed by many people, but are important plays oin the course of a game.  I think we'll see him in Van in 2, maybe 3 years.  If he doesn't make the team next season, I'd lke to see him return to Finland rather than another year of JR

Juolevi was on the ice for 2 back to back goals.  First one he coughed up but I think he was surprised by the speed of the opposing forward. He was at the blue line i believe on a PP and the guy just took it from him.  The very next shift he was on the ice they got scored on again.  That one was more so the fault of his partner though who was too be honest not very hot throughout the night.  (this was vs the peg yesterday).

 

Juolevi didn't play today.  I found it interesting the canucks clip had juolevi playing his game but they opted not to show the misques lol.  For such a big mistake I'm surprised.  It's probably for the better though as you don't want to tarnish the guys image.  He had a rough night with his partner though too be fair.  Stecher and him played sensational.  You often noticed Stecher more because of his speed and ability to drive the play but Juolevi was great in the first game.

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I take these tourneys with a grain of salt.  It's nice we get hockey but really these events mean nothing.  

 

Tons of players who will never get a sniff of NHL action.  

 

Also, some players like OJ who play a structured game who have a hard time with the cluster F that these tourneys seem to be. 

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30 minutes ago, meyham_without_mercy said:

Speaking of defenseman, why don't they try subban on a wing for a bit.  Add a bit of speed and good puck work as benning says

I haven't watched the video linked above but I believe Mr. Subban is likely trade bait.  I don't see him being with the club in the long term if his defensive play cannot come close to his offensive play.  The reason I believe Montreal traded his brother was because of his defensive liabilities.  I think its the same reason why Ottawa will struggle to go deep in a playoff series.  The refs call the games so down the middle by handing out even calls.  Having 1 player who takes chances to generate offence on the backend puts your entire team at risk.  
 

I think of Subban and Karlsson as 2 of the best offensive d man but when the games get tight in the post season.  You can win or lose a game by one goal.  As a GM you want to build a team that has some consistency and certainty too it.  Having a huge x factor who can swing your mathematical equation aka your lineup either way based on their mistakes is probably a hard pill to swallow. 

 

Those players are terrific for teams trying to make the post season and who want to sell tickets.  I think the risk involved makes some GM's uncomfortable. (I know I'm not explaining this well but it makes sense too me).  Thats why I would prefer Weber over Subban.  He is consistent.  He helps in both ends, has size, and has an even contribution curve with less risk.

 

Subban is like a risky aggressive stock.  It can pay off big but if u are planning for retirement you want a safer play.

 

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1 minute ago, Stelar said:

I take these tourneys with a grain of salt.  It's nice we get hockey but really these events mean nothing.  

 

Tons of players who will never get a sniff of NHL action.  

 

Also, some players like OJ who play a structured game who have a hard time with the cluster F that these tourneys seem to be. 

Yeah a grain of salt indeed me too. Watching the young stars then flipping over too the first period of NA vs Russia... Wow lol. 

The young stars tourney is so sloppy.  The kids on NA have a few years on them and it shows.

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2 minutes ago, Rush17 said:

Yeah a grain of salt indeed me too. Watching the young stars then flipping over too the first period of NA vs Russia... Wow lol. 

The young stars tourney is so sloppy.  The kids on NA have a few years on them and it shows.

Stecher is 22.  Our prospects are average to good, but we really have no one elite.  

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6 minutes ago, Stelar said:

I take these tourneys with a grain of salt.  It's nice we get hockey but really these events mean nothing.  

 

Tons of players who will never get a sniff of NHL action.  

 

Also, some players like OJ who play a structured game who have a hard time with the cluster F that these tourneys seem to be. 

DING! This big time. Someone please give Stellar two T-shirts!!!!

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2 hours ago, SID.IS.SID.ME.IS.ME said:

Yeah, Carcone's been quite good and Benning signing him fairly early in the offseason is looking like a smart move.

 

Seems like this organization has struck a nice balance between analytics and traditional scouting methods, at least when it comes to their overager draft picks and free agent prospect signings. The Canucks have managed to bring in some of the better prospects according to statistical models (and this can't be a coincidence IMO).

 

And then the scouts appear to be using their evaluative talent to scoop the cream off the top.

 

That Marco Roy invite is also looking like a shrewd move. An Edmonton castoff whose stats still suggest around a 25% chance of him making the NHL as a 200 game player. Looking like the Oilers might have given up too early on that kid. Oh well, their loss is our gain.

 

Seems like our "old school" management is more open to new school methods than they're given credit for. It would be fitting if the next couple years saw Benning and the staff successfully mine some true gems by combining these two approaches (analytics and eye test).

Hey Sid, do you know who's doing stats analysis behind the Canucks curtain? I know there's been a fair amount of hand wringing over so many of the Canucks Army bloggers being scooped up by Florida and other teams, but they don't seem to be succeeding so far. I've been curious if the Canucks went a bit more ... left field .... and hired someone actually qualified that regard.

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5 hours ago, DeNiro said:

Tryamkin should not come out of the lineup unless he really struggles IMO.

 

He could potentially be part of the future whereas I don't see Sbisa or Larsen being among that group. These are crucial development years for him, we can't have him hanging out in the pressbox because Willie's worried about his job.

 

The pairings should either be Sbisa-Tryamkin or Tryamkin-Larsen with Tryamkin learning to play on his off side.

This is the correct answer...

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4 hours ago, DeNiro said:

He's shown he can handle bottom pairing minutes.

 

If they think that he's just a 7th defenseman at this point they might as well trade him. It won't be too long before a KHL team comes sniffing around with a contract. 

 

This team needs to be developing D, not inserting stop gap guys like Weber and Larsen in the hopes of staying competitive for a season.

Benning said that he wants to have an offensive / 2 way D paired up with a more physical stay at home D.  I take this to mean that the 3rd pair is likely to be Sbisa - Larsen or Tryamkin - Larsen.

 

Either way, Benning sounds really impressed by Larsen.  I don't think he's looking at Larsen as a stop gap at all.  He's 26.  In fact, Larsen, Tanev and Sbisa were all born within a month of each other.  Not that that makes much difference.  I have always seen Sbisa as more of a stop gap player.  He's paid like a 2nd pair D but is looking more and more like he has 3rd pair skills.  I think that he originally had him in mind for the 2nd pair but Hutton has forced him down the depth charts.  Benning likes the depth that he brings but at a $3.6 cap hit on the bottom pair, I see Sbisa sticking around only until Tryamkin can show beyond a doubt that he belongs in the top 6.

 

As far as Tryamkin goes, he sounds as if he has an excellent attitude and worked really hard over the summer to improve his speed and fitness.  Those 13 games were huge for him last year because he was able to see what it was really like to play in the NHL and what he needed to work on over the summer.  By all accounts he has done just that. 

 

I agree that Tryamkin is at a point where he will develop much better at the NHL level, against better competition.  Of course he needs to play.  On merit, he's going to have to show that he is more consistent and makes fewer mistakes than the Sbisa.  He's already shown that he can be a nasty piece of business.  I would give him one up on Sbisa in that department already.

 

 

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1 hour ago, Stelar said:

I take these tourneys with a grain of salt.  It's nice we get hockey but really these events mean nothing.  

 

Tons of players who will never get a sniff of NHL action.  

 

Also, some players like OJ who play a structured game who have a hard time with the cluster F that these tourneys seem to be. 

I expect OJ to have a much better camp in Whistler than the two games in in this tournament. It was probably a good eye opener for him personally though and I almost wonder if he was trying to do too much in his second game maybe? Thats when you get into trouble, particularly on D.

 

Can he make the team this year? Not all on his own, there will have to be a trade (or clearing waivers) of one of Sbisa or Pedan to make that happen. 

 

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1 hour ago, Alflives said:

Stecher is 22.  Our prospects are average to good, but we really have no one elite.  

Wel... Boeser did surpass Toews in his first year of scoring, and in fact beat Vessey by 16 points (in his 4th year). Demko broke Schneiders Boston College shutout record. If neither of these is not an elite prospect what is?

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32 minutes ago, S'all Good Man said:

I expect OJ to have a much better camp in Whistler than the two games in in this tournament. It was probably a good eye opener for him personally though and I almost wonder if he was trying to do too much in his second game maybe? Thats when you get into trouble, particularly on D.

 

Can he make the team this year? Not all on his own, there will have to be a trade (or clearing waivers) of one of Sbisa or Pedan to make that happen. 

 

We don't need him this year.  We are bursting with bottom 4 defence as it is.  Read the discussion about Tryamkin, sounds like he is serious about the third pairing.  Give Joulevi another year under Hunter and a great Knights program and come back next year stronger and more ready to make the jump.  

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I never agreed with giving up a second round pick in the Guds trade, but seeing Stetcher now and how we acquired him for nothing at least evens out the value we gave away in my books. Kid's looking like a stud. Hopefully he can be the next Tyson Barrie for us.

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46 minutes ago, S'all Good Man said:

Wel... Boeser did surpass Toews in his first year of scoring, and in fact beat Vessey by 16 points (in his 4th year). Demko broke Schneiders Boston College shutout record. If neither of these is not an elite prospect what is?

Apparently some people only consider top 3 picks as elite, even though top 3 picks can bust too.

 

You can put whatever titles you want on prospects though, all I care about is that they make the NHL. What they do at the lower levels means nothing of they never make the big show.

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3 hours ago, The Bookie said:

Hey Sid, do you know who's doing stats analysis behind the Canucks curtain? I know there's been a fair amount of hand wringing over so many of the Canucks Army bloggers being scooped up by Florida and other teams, but they don't seem to be succeeding so far. I've been curious if the Canucks went a bit more ... left field .... and hired someone actually qualified that regard.

Short answer: Pretty sure Jonathan Wall still heads up Vancouver's analytics department: http://canucks.nhl.com/club/m_page.htm?id=60828

 

Longer answer: In 2012, Vancouver hired Stathletes (the company Arizona GM John Chayka founded) for an exclusive three year contact with the Canucks:  

 

Quote

 



Chayka’s big break came in 2012 when the Vancouver Canucks covertly flew Stathletes out for an in-depth presentation of their work. That turned into a lucrative – and exclusive – three-year contract with their first NHL team.

 

No one with the Canucks former management team would comment about Chayka’s involvement, but his reputation around the league grew from there. As soon as Stathletes’ deal with Vancouver expired, more teams were lining up to talk to them.

 

The Coyotes were one of the first the company presented to last spring. Not only did Arizona want in, it wanted Chayka.

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/sports/hockey/coyotes-gamble-on-a-totally-new-type-of-gm-with-promotion-of-john-chayka/article29908118/?service=mobile

 

I would imagine that some of the data collection systems Stathletes put in place at that time are still operating under Wall (to some degree anyway--a few of these would be proprietary metrics and collection methods that Chayka and Stathletes took with them when the contract ended).

 

The Canucks rarely acknowledge their analytics department publicly, but I have good reason to suspect the Canucks are still tracking their own stats (or subcontracting another company) during games and I know they still generate detailed reports for the coaches and management.

 

We've seen hints of this when Benning and Linden have occasionally mentioned some very specific "microstats" type data in player discussions (stuff you can't just grab off the various free sites on the web--like zone entries/exits, passes/"shot assists", and what seem to be some quite novel defender stats). It's only been a few instances but my ears have certainly perked up every time.

 

EDIT: And like I alluded to in the earlier post, I suspect the Canucks' scouting department is getting some information from their analytics department on prospect success probabilities. This would be something similar to what we've seen from models like PCS, pGPS, DEV, etc (where individual prospects are compared to similar past players--based on their age, height, scoring totals, league scoring equivalencies, etc--and a predicted success percentage is calculated from the known results of that "cohort" of comparable players). 

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