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Training Camp Surprises So Far (If Any)


JamesB

Training Camp Surprises so Far  

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4 minutes ago, redhdlois said:

Heard on TSN 1040 that he has lost weight, so don't think that's an issue.  Not sure why he keeps getting talked about being the 7th Dman.....was hoping he would be in the 3 rd pairing....

The OP said  "When asked about Trymakin, JB and WD were very restrained. I got the impression they were not impressed by his condition to start camp." 

I'm wondering if this is a misinformed comment or conjecture.

 

 

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5 minutes ago, redhdlois said:

Heard on TSN 1040 that he has lost weight, so don't think that's an issue.  Not sure why he keeps getting talked about being the 7th Dman.....was hoping he would be in the 3 rd pairing....

It's a new reality of the depth the Canucks have on defense.  As said above, the Canucks really want to give Larsen a shot on the PP.  I love Tryamkin just as much as anybody else, but they need a PP specialist more than the increased physicality that Tryamkin brings.  I think the more solid Tryamkin plays in preseason and as an injury fill in (those will happen) the more expendable Sbisa becomes but it wouldn't be prudent to gut the depth now, no matter how promising Tryamkin's 13 games were last year.  55-60 games, to me, is a good amount for Tryamkin to continue his adjustment to the North American game but still playing enough to continue the development curve.

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9 minutes ago, redhdlois said:

Heard on TSN 1040 that he has lost weight, so don't think that's an issue.  Not sure why he keeps getting talked about being the 7th Dman.....was hoping he would be in the 3 rd pairing....

Because as a physical presence (which Benning wants in every pair) Tryamkin is up against Sbisa and Pedan for the 3rd pair.  Sbisa has the history and experience.  It's not as if the 7th D won't get a lot of time.

 

The offensive puck mover would be between Larsen, Stecher, Biega, Subban for the 3rd pair

 

5 minutes ago, Hairy Kneel said:

The OP said  "When asked about Trymakin, JB and WD were very restrained. I got the impression they were not impressed by his condition to start camp." 

I'm wondering if this is a misinformed comment or conjecture.

 

 

Ya, maybe he did poorly in the fitness testing Or

 

Like Jake, they want these guys to earn their spots.

 

The press keeps going on about a paradigm shift from development to winning.  Managament has always talked about young players earning what ever breaks they get.

 

I think that last year, because of injuries, they were forced to go with young guys and tolerate their mistakes because they didn't have the depth to run out and trade for help.

 

 

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30 minutes ago, Hairy Kneel said:

The OP said  "When asked about Trymakin, JB and WD were very restrained. I got the impression they were not impressed by his condition to start camp." 

I'm wondering if this is a misinformed comment or conjecture.

 

 

This is my conjecture. In the interview to start camp with JB and WD together, they were asked about Tryamkin -- if his English was better, if he had made progress over the summer, etc. The only response was that his English was a bit better and the answer drifted away to something else. Then another reporter came right back and asked about Tryamkin again and the response was pretty much noncommittal -- nothing like the positive comments about Baertschi or Horvat or Larsen or Tanev.

 

Obviously WD and JB are not going to throw anyone under the bus on the first day of camp, so it is not like they were going to say anything overtly negative. But the failure to say anything positive gave me the impression that they were not that impressed so far. But I agree with the other comments that WD and JB do not want to gift anything to Tryamkin, as Wilbur says below. And they obviously have Larsen penciled into the 3rd pairing right now. RD on the third pairing is Larsen's spot to lose and, as JR said, the LD spot is between Tryamkin, Pedan and Sbisa (who presumably has the inside track).

 

6 hours ago, Canuck Surfer said:

@JamesB  I had not seen a quote about Tanev being used on the power play???

 

I was surprised that Bo might play with Baer. Willie was pretty clear that he felt Bo's game was a defensive one first and foremost. And even though he liked Baer's defensive game? Thought Baer's core offensive talent went missing in that conversation. But that was all last year...

 

My own wish is for a Baer / Bo / Sutter second line.  Two dead plane ace defensive centres. One to take the right handed draws, the other the left.  With a speedy winger that has all the puck skill they might lack.  That's been shot down by CDC before. I don't care. I love my match up lines.  I reckon its a great idea.

 

Leaves Granlund to play offense with Hansen & Rodin.  A 4th line of Burr or Etem, Gaunce & Jake. Dorsett sits out & its not an issue because someone is inevitably not available.

Sorry that I cannot give the URL. But is was in the interview with JB and WD that I refer to above. WD also repeats a similar (but slightly weaker) comment in the post-practice interview that is on the Canuck webpage today.

 

I like the comment about a Baer/Bo/Sutter second line. The only negative that I see is that I am not sure that Granlund or Gaunce can play 3C.

 

 

2 hours ago, Wilbur said:

My guess is they want to make sure he earns a spot.  This management has been fairly consistent in their words to make sure they don't gift players spots higher in the lineup.  From Horvat last year, to Baertschi in a top 6 forward spot, Markstrom as a co-#1 and Tryamkin in a top 6 defence spot this year, they don't promise young players spots before they have a chance to earn them.  Not sure if it's a respect to the veterans thing or not putting too much pressure on the young players thing.  Probably a bit of both I guess.

 

Bottom line, I wouldn't worry.  If, after exhibition games, Tryamkin is clearly in the top 6, I have no doubts he will be in the top 6.

I am hoping Tryamkin is good enough to be in the top 6 which, as JR says, means beating out Sbisa for a spot. I think Sbisa is okay as a 3rd pairing guy. But it would be great if Tryamkin is good enough to provide an upgrade, especially if Larsen turns out to be a good puck mover who can contribute to the offence 5-on-5 and on the PP.

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9 minutes ago, captainhorvat said:

Most surprised to hear how highly pierre maguire spoke about philip larsen said that hes a poor mans erik karlsson. So im lookin forward to see what he can do for us. Would be a good slap in the face to the oilers!

it was larssony on both counts....

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45 minutes ago, Hairy Kneel said:

The OP said  "When asked about Trymakin, JB and WD were very restrained. I got the impression they were not impressed by his condition to start camp." 

I'm wondering if this is a misinformed comment or conjecture.

 

 

Is there anything to actually back this claim?

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6 hours ago, Canuck Surfer said:

@JamesB  I had not seen a quote about Tanev being used on the power play???

 

I was surprised that Bo might play with Baer. Willie was pretty clear that he felt Bo's game was a defensive one first and foremost. And even though he liked Baer's defensive game? Thought Baer's core offensive talent went missing in that conversation. But that was all last year...

 

My own wish is for a Baer / Bo / Sutter second line.  Two dead plane ace defensive centres. One to take the right handed draws, the other the left.  With a speedy winger that has all the puck skill they might lack.  That's been shot down by CDC before. I don't care. I love my match up lines.  I reckon its a great idea.

 

Leaves Granlund to play offense with Hansen & Rodin.  A 4th line of Burr or Etem, Gaunce & Jake. Dorsett sits out & its not an issue because someone is inevitably not available.

Very reasonable progression for Trymakin. I don't feel comfortable inking Larsen into the top six, but I would be happy to have the guys sitting at the 5/6 spot having two eager players breathing down their neck.

 

ideally I would like to have Sbisa play himself into a trade thru positive play. At that time, hopefully Trymakin can take the reins and claim a full time spot. 

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16 minutes ago, numb3r 16 said:

I hope train makes it :( he was one of the few bright spots last year.

He showed trymendous defensive skills last year- his crunching hits, his poke checks and stick work (what about that reach!) how he broke up passing lanes, his board battles were strongest on most nights, I remember he got caught once out there on a 5 on 3 and survived and acquitted himself rather well. Skates well and I don't think he ever really got a chance to showcase his slap shot much he would have liked.

 

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2 hours ago, higgyfan said:

Nucks are desperate for a mobile dman, so Larsen will naturally get the extra chance.  The other mobile dmen are waiver exempt.

 

There's been nothing tangible that suggests Tram is not in game shape.  Sbisa is the vet, so he will probably start off at the left side of Larsen.

 

Not to worry about Tram not making the team, as the Canucks will be carrying 8 dmen.  Biega is likely the odd man out.

It does sound like they really want to fill that 6 d spot with a pp specialist.

 

I think it's going to backfire horrendously as I can only imagine how bad a Sbisa - Larsen pairing would be in it's own end. We all know that Sbisa can't clear a puck or make a breakout to save his life and Larsen is a really small guy, I can't see him winning many battles in the corner with NHL sized players.

 

Sure Larsen might help the power play but at what cost on the defensive side of the puck. It just seems like it will be 2 liabilties on defense being routinely hemmed in their own zone. This is all speculation of course without seeing Larsen play yet but I just get the feeling he's going to be way below average defensively and paired with Sbisa is not a good thing. Hopefully Tryamkin is actually fit and ready to beat out one of these guys for a spot

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2 hours ago, Hairy Kneel said:

The OP said  "When asked about Trymakin, JB and WD were very restrained. I got the impression they were not impressed by his condition to start camp." 

I'm wondering if this is a misinformed comment or conjecture.

 

 

All the Canuck top Heads JB, WD, Linden, and the Twins have been very reserved when answering Tram questions. I feel they don't want to add to much media and pressure on him so he can develop in peace, I think they know he's a super Gem. Their just not openly saying it.

 

Larsen they talk highly about because it's to build confidence in him. So he's not shy showing what he's got.

 

Tram their trying to unlock his full protental by pushing him and making him work extra hard to have him think he needs to fight for a spot, but management already has him penciled in as a roster guy.

 

JB when asked about their top prospects he always has Tryamkin name high on his list and speaks highly of Tryamkins assets, but when he is asked direct Tryamkin questions he keeps it short and very low key.

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25 minutes ago, Ihatetomatoes said:

It does sound like they really want to fill that 6 d spot with a pp specialist.

 

I think it's going to backfire horrendously as I can only imagine how bad a Sbisa - Larsen pairing would be in it's own end. We all know that Sbisa can't clear a puck or make a breakout to save his life and Larsen is a really small guy, I can't see him winning many battles in the corner with NHL sized players.

 

Sure Larsen might help the power play but at what cost on the defensive side of the puck. It just seems like it will be 2 liabilties on defense being routinely hemmed in their own zone. This is all speculation of course without seeing Larsen play yet but I just get the feeling he's going to be way below average defensively and paired with Sbisa is not a good thing. Hopefully Tryamkin is actually fit and ready to beat out one of these guys for a spot

Larsen is 6'1" @ 183lbs...compared to our other pmds, he's giant.

 

From what I have read about Larsen, he is solid in the d-zone.

 

CDC severely undervalues Sbisa.

 

Anyways, it's early days yet and there's plenty of time for mixing lines/pairings.  That's why JB is carrying 8 d-men this year.  Team needs +++ depth.

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1 hour ago, higgyfan said:

Larsen is 6'1" @ 183lbs...compared to our other pmds, he's giant.

 

From what I have read about Larsen, he is solid in the d-zone.

 

CDC severely undervalues Sbisa.

 

Anyways, it's early days yet and there's plenty of time for mixing lines/pairings.  That's why JB is carrying 8 d-men this year.  Team needs +++ depth.

Uhhh? Who?...Edler is huge and Hutton is 208lbs. 

 

For reference Subban is 5'8 and 180lbs. Being 6'1 and 180lbs is very slight of frame for the NHL.

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50 minutes ago, Ihatetomatoes said:

Uhhh? Who?...Edler is huge and Hutton is 208lbs. 

 

For reference Subban is 5'8 and 180lbs. Being 6'1 and 180lbs is very slight of frame for the NHL.

 

Just to add to tomatoes point, a good source on NHL player size is https://hockey-graphs.com/2015/03/05/nhl-forwards-vs-defensemen-height-weight-1917-18-to-2014-15/

 

As of the 2014-15 season (the most recent season listed) the average height for Ds was 6-2 and the average weight was 205. Forwards average about an inch shorter and only about 5 lbs. lighter. I have checked the raw data before and found that the medians are almost exactly the same as the averages (i.e. not much skewness in the data).

 

So 180 or 185 is light for a D-man and those guys can get pushed around if their angles and other positional play is not excellent. The D was too small last year, especially when Edler was out and before Tryamkin joined the team.

 

But with Edler back, Guddy on the 2nd pairing, and (I hope) Tryamkin and/or Pedan in the mix, the D will be bigger, stronger, and tougher this year. Lighter guys like Tanev, Hutton, and Larsen need to really work on positioning and other technical aspects of the game. Tanev already has excellent skills in this area. This an area Hutton can improve and we will see what Larsen can do.

 

 

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10 minutes ago, JamesB said:

 

Just to add to tomatoes point, a good source on NHL player size is https://hockey-graphs.com/2015/03/05/nhl-forwards-vs-defensemen-height-weight-1917-18-to-2014-15/

 

As of the 2014-15 season (the most recent season listed) the average height for Ds was 6-2 and the average weight was 205. Forwards average about an inch shorter and only about 5 lbs. lighter. I have checked the raw data before and found that the medians are almost exactly the same as the averages (i.e. not much skewness in the data).

 

So 180 or 185 is light for a D-man and those guys can get pushed around if their angles and other positional play is not excellent. The D was too small last year, especially when Edler was out and before Tryamkin joined the team.

 

But with Edler back, Guddy on the 2nd pairing, and (I hope) Tryamkin and/or Pedan in the mix, the D will be bigger, stronger, and tougher this year. Lighter guys like Tanev, Hutton, and Larsen need to really work on positioning and other technical aspects of the game. Tanev already has excellent skills in this area. This an area Hutton can improve and we will see what Larsen can do.

 

 

From what I've been reading and hearing, Larsen has very good hockey sense as is his positional play.

 

 

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1 hour ago, Ihatetomatoes said:

Uhhh? Who?...Edler is huge and Hutton is 208lbs. 

 

For reference Subban is 5'8 and 180lbs. Being 6'1 and 180lbs is very slight of frame for the NHL.

I was referring to the pmd not on the team. 

 

Where did you get Hutton at 208lbs?  Is that his weight at camp? 

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