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[Discussion] The Canucks Zone Entry/Breakout


Jamie Huscroft

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Like many, if not all of you, I've been watching the preseason games this year a little closer than normal. Whether you're watching to see if any of the PTO's can earn a spot, or to see how close Juolevi is, or if Rodin is the real deal and will make the team this year, there is one thing that I've noticed that has bothered me to no end. 

 

The Canucks ability to enter the offensive zone effectively, or should I say inability to enter the offensive zone? Maybe I'm way off on this and there is data supporting postives in their zone entry, I'm not sure. I'd be curious to see it, but from the games I've seen (all but the first in San Jose) it seems like Vancouver is hellbent on entering the zone on the left side. Whether it be a quick chip and chase, or a ring around from the right side, it seems like Vancouver is beating this to death and not only is it not working, but other teams quickly figure this out, hampering the Canucks ability to enter the zone effectively and generate decent scoring chances. 

 

Has anyone else noticed this? Is this poor coaching? Is the lack of ability to gain entry in what appears to be their preferred method of zone entry due to the lack of speed the team has? 

 

I just wanted to open this up for discussion and see if anyone else noticed it as well. Feel free to talk about the above mentioned PTO's and rookies in here as well. 

 

Thanks. 

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14 minutes ago, S'all Good Man said:

PTOs and Utica roster. Wait for the actual lineup. 

 

Horvats line has looked very good at times though. 

Truth. Even when they haven't scored in a game, they've generated some really nice chances in each one. 

 

Plus Horvat is a fan of those slick little toe drags to get around defenders when entering the zone. 

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6 minutes ago, HerrDrFunk said:

Truth. Even when they haven't scored in a game, they've generated some really nice chances in each one. 

 

Plus Horvat is a fan of those slick little toe drags to get around defenders when entering the zone. 

Is Bo really fast now, or are the other guys just not up to speed?  He seems to be in hyper speed some times, doesn't he?

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It's been like this for years. Every team has a system on how to enter the zone. Detroits for ecmxanple was to give it to datsyuk. Ours in recent years had been the drop pass :picard:. I'm not going to pretend I know how to fix it. I just know that it's a major problem.

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10 minutes ago, Gooseberries said:

It's been like this for years. Every team has a system on how to enter the zone. Detroits for ecmxanple was to give it to datsyuk. Ours in recent years had been the drop pass :picard:. I'm not going to pretend I know how to fix it. I just know that it's a major problem.

 

I'm hoping Doug Jarvis has some new/old ideas on this one. The guys has seen it all and I'm hoping WD is willing to listen. 

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Let's be honest. This team has lacked a good coach since Vigneault was make the scapegoat. This team could be a lot better with a different head coach at the helm. The systems that Willie uses, the continual too many men penalties, the continued existence of the drop pass, the continued deployment of poorly playing veterans over up and coming rookies (granted this one has gotten better), and the lack of any proactive change to fix these issues has proven to me that Willie is NOT a long-term coaching option for this team.

 

I don't know how to fix all these problems, but its clear Willie doesn't know how to either.

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I get the feeling Willie is in over his head and is afraid to lose his job.  He seems indecisive and way too conservative, afraid to lose instead of trying to win.  The players feed off of this and play accordingly.  It's been that way for a while even towards the end of AV's tenure.  They would get a lead and then go into shut down mode, often too early and unsuccessfully.  But with Willie they just always seem in disarray.

 

It also doesn't help the Canucks just don't have the talent to play an up tempo attacking style.  The dump and chase is going to make for a long season.  I'm not sure how much of it I am willing to watch actually.  

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1 minute ago, Borvat said:

I get the feeling Willie is in over his head and is afraid to lose his job.  He seems indecisive and way too conservative, afraid to lose instead of trying to win.  The players feed off of this and play accordingly.  It's been that way for a while even towards the end of AV's tenure.  They would get a lead and then go into shut down mode, often too early and unsuccessfully.

 

It also doesn't help the Canucks just don't have the talent to play an up tempo attacking style.  The dump and chase is going to make for a long season.  I'm not sure how much of it I am willing to watch actually.  

I think you're bang on that WD is in over his head, he knows it, and he is 'real' worried about being fired.  Some of his comments have been a lot sharper than before, especially last night.  He said some guys up the lineup better beware of their jobs, because there are guys pushing for those spots.  He said there is real competition for spots. He knows he's gotta win out of the gate, or he's done.  Now, how long does he last?  I'm saying he is gone before 20 games.

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1 hour ago, Jamie Huscroft said:

Like many, if not all of you, I've been watching the preseason games this year a little closer than normal. Whether you're watching to see if any of the PTO's can earn a spot, or to see how close Juolevi is, or if Rodin is the real deal and will make the team this year, there is one thing that I've noticed that has bothered me to no end. 

 

The Canucks ability to enter the offensive zone effectively, or should I say inability to enter the offensive zone? Maybe I'm way off on this and there is data supporting postives in their zone entry, I'm not sure. I'd be curious to see it, but from the games I've seen (all but the first in San Jose) it seems like Vancouver is hellbent on entering the zone on the left side. Whether it be a quick chip and chase, or a ring around from the right side, it seems like Vancouver is beating this to death and not only is it not working, but other teams quickly figure this out, hampering the Canucks ability to enter the zone effectively and generate decent scoring chances. 

 

Has anyone else noticed this? Is this poor coaching? Is the lack of ability to gain entry in what appears to be their preferred method of zone entry due to the lack of speed the team has? 

 

I just wanted to open this up for discussion and see if anyone else noticed it as well. Feel free to talk about the above mentioned PTO's and rookies in here as well. 

 

Thanks. 

 

I've kind of noticed that too, but have attributed to RW being their weaker side with Honey Badger, Loui and Jake out of the lineup.

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1 hour ago, gurn said:

"The systems that Willie uses, the continual too many men penalties, the continued existence of the drop pass"

 

That sounds like previous Canuck, AV led teams also.

Willie is responsible for more too many men penalties than Vigneault ever was. I actually don't think I've ever seen a team get penalized for too many men as frequently as the Canucks over the last couple years. 

 

Yes, the drop pass started near the end of Vigneault's tenure - but that doesn't give Willie an excuse to continue using such an awful strategy. 

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1 hour ago, Alflives said:

I think you're bang on that WD is in over his head, he knows it, and he is 'real' worried about being fired.  Some of his comments have been a lot sharper than before, especially last night.  He said some guys up the lineup better beware of their jobs, because there are guys pushing for those spots.  He said there is real competition for spots. He knows he's gotta win out of the gate, or he's done.  Now, how long does he last?  I'm saying he is gone before 20 games.

 

I like Willie and think he is a stand up guy.  But being an NHL coach isn't easy or forgiving.  He just seems out of his depth and I think his players must realize it too.  I just don't see a confidence level.  I'm just happy Travis Green is still around. I hope they don't leave this until some poor player moves/decisions are made because of it. 

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2 hours ago, Gooseberries said:

It's been like this for years. Every team has a system on how to enter the zone. Detroits for ecmxanple was to give it to datsyuk. Ours in recent years had been the drop pass :picard:. I'm not going to pretend I know how to fix it. I just know that it's a major problem.


The problem is the collective lack of offensive creativity.

Part of the reason why I'm so pumped to finally have a guy like Stecher on board. He breaks everybody else loose out of that mindset. 

It's also partly what Tortilla referred to as the team being "stale". That didn't only refer to players that have been around too long, also just a mindset that comes along with that. Things have been the same for so long with too many guys. It's time to scrub that and start over with a new, more pack attack mentality.
 

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I'm glad someone brought this up. Was thinking this very morning about a need to change systems or style of offensive play. 

 

I know it's only pre-season, but last year I noticed that Horvat was most effective entering the zone up the middle in a more crash the net style. I remember a few times thinking, why aren't we creating more chances up the middle when it obviously works? Instead of left/right zone entry, cycle to D, and the endless missed nets, why aren't we crashing the net more, creating plays in the middle to keep goalies off balance. A lot of Eriksson's goals last season came from crowding the net.

 

Late in the Coyotes game last night, the perimeter game wasn't working. We couldn't put the puck in the net. It was the first time this pre-season that I thought we may be hard pressed for goals again this season if we don't change something and mix up the systems. 

 

Pre-season and all, but just my .02.

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46 minutes ago, darkpoet said:


The problem is the collective lack of offensive creativity.

Part of the reason why I'm so pumped to finally have a guy like Stecher on board. He breaks everybody else loose out of that mindset. 

 

Thats why I'm an advocate of having Hansen as our 4th line RW. Yes we may lose some offence initially on paper based on last year, but the creativity you're talking about might be found with our top 3 line RWs as Loui, Virtanen and Rodin. 

 

I'd also like to see that Edler-Stecher thing on the PP given a shot. 

 

I also think a 4th line of Dorsett/Burr-Gaunce-Hansen could be the best 4th line in the West and give other teams possession fits. 

 

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3 hours ago, Fateless said:

Let's be honest. This team has lacked a good coach since Vigneault was make the scapegoat. This team could be a lot better with a different head coach at the helm. The systems that Willie uses, the continual too many men penalties, the continued existence of the drop pass, the continued deployment of poorly playing veterans over up and coming rookies (granted this one has gotten better), and the lack of any proactive change to fix these issues has proven to me that Willie is NOT a long-term coaching option for this team.

 

I don't know how to fix all these problems, but its clear Willie doesn't know how to either.

 

Willie's not telling them to go out and take too many men penalties.

There is nothing wrong with the drop pass if it is done right, I saw a lot of it in the WC of Hockey. He is not in charge of personnel. He played 8 rookies last season  - how many teams played more?

I don't see how you can say there is no proactive change -  he has only had 2 seasons, one was an injury strewn 101 point season in the Western conference, the other was an injury ravaged clusterf--d season where we lost almost half a team to injury and played raw and unready rookies and other team's cast offs.

 

So given the above circumstances, how many coaches who were available would have fared better?

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TBH I think Travis Green is ready to be our coach. I saw his pre season interview and was impressed by how calm and smart this guy is. Willie seems calm but his current system isn't getting the job done. With our team in a retool mode we need an above average coach to make the playoffs. My money is on willie to get fired 30 games in if the team has a losing record.

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