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Coding Boot Camps


Hugor Hill

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It's really cool if you can get exceptionally good at it. Especially C, Unix & systems operation, machine & assembly language, & the cyber security route for organizations that specialize in that, the government, etc. Or go the criminal route. But I feel like there is going to be a long jam down the road in this department. Everyone wants to code. They're starting to teach the basics of it in elementary and in high school. So many people at school were into it - a lot more into that than anything else.

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10 minutes ago, Tortorella's Rant said:

It's really cool if you can get exceptionally good at it. Especially C, Unix & systems operation, machine & assembly language, & the cyber security route for organizations that specialize in that, the government, etc. Or go the criminal route. But I feel like there is going to be a long jam down the road in this department. Everyone wants to code. They're starting to teach the basics of it in elementary and in high school. So many people at school were into it - a lot more into that than anything else.

 

These boot camps teach web languages like Javascript and Ruby.

 

I mean on one hand people are learning these things, on the other hand the job market is growing like crazy.

 

 

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Just now, Hugor Hill said:

 

These boot camps teach web languages like Javascript and Ruby.

 

I mean on one hand people are learning these things, on the other hand the job market is growing like crazy.

 

 


Well I think if you wanna do Javascript, then it's definitely worth looking into AWS.  I assume it uses Java and you can host your own cloud-like business service this way, or whatever, but other than that I don't really know how they go together - the development team at my work do a lot of those together, currently looking for a full stack programmer(s), whatever that is, blah blah.

That's all I can really say about it. I'm not a programmer as you can tell :lol:

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Just now, Tortorella's Rant said:


Well I think if you wanna do Javascript, then it's definitely worth looking into AWS.  I assume it uses Java and you can host your own cloud-like business service this way, or whatever, but other than that I don't really know how they go together - the development team at my work do a lot of those together, currently looking for a full stack programmer(s), whatever that is, blah blah.

That's all I can really say about it. I'm not a programmer as you can tell :lol:

 

Hehe it's cool thanks.... yeah everybody is looking for full stack guys. If I get through a boot camp I'll be one of them too... a junior one but still one.

 

btw Java has nothing to do with Javascript... one of the first things I learned in programming. LOL!

 

 

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1 hour ago, Dral said:

If all you have on your resume is a coding boot camp, don't quit your day job... if you're serious about it, buckle down and take a 2 year course at BCIT

I have heard similar comments. The other side of the argument is, their bootcamps have a job placement rate of over 90% within 4 months, or something around those figures. 

 

I have a freelance career that I can fall back on if this doesn't work out right away. Thanks for the caution.

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1 hour ago, Hugor Hill said:

I have heard similar comments. The other side of the argument is, their bootcamps have a job placement rate of over 90% within 4 months, or something around those figures. 

 

I have a freelance career that I can fall back on if this doesn't work out right away. Thanks for the caution.

 

I can't even begin to tell you how skeptical I am of those numbers... whats the annual salary for those people? and the number of people who enter the program with zero experience in the industry vs people who are established and are just learning a new language?

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3 minutes ago, Dral said:

 

I can't even begin to tell you how skeptical I am of those numbers... whats the annual salary for those people? and the number of people who enter the program with zero experience in the industry vs people who are established and are just learning a new language?

 

Salary is 30K to 80K, average 50K. Some jobs are trial while others are true full time. 

Some students are experienced in programming. Most are active job seekers (which kind of implies they are not experienced coders).

 

You can critically go through their report and see if you find them misleading: https://www.lighthouselabs.ca/lighthouse_labs_student_outcomes_report.pdf 

I would be interested in your opinion. Thanks.

 

What they don't tell you is the drop out rate. I talked to some of the grads before and from what I gather, drop out rate is close to 50%. Most of them come from the first 2 weeks. I know somebody who enrolled in an easier bootcamp and she told me afterwards she had no idea what was going on. LOL! She is an artist, not fit for programming.

 

If they are teaching you node.js in the first 2 weeks, then I think they are purposely weeding out the ones who can't hack it.

 

 

 

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I work in the field and I can say make sure you're passionate about this (web dev) before enrolling and not in it for the money. For me at least, it's easy to weed out bootcampers who enrolled for the wrong reason. I've also seen bootcampers who finish their program but have nothing to show for it afterwards (as in, they forget what they learned, can't apply it outside of what they did at the bootcamp, can't extend their knowledge of what they learned, or can't even code 'simple' javascript functions without context of what they learned at the camp). Moreover, if I were to consider hiring someone from a bootcamp, I'd make sure they have additional personal/group projects they worked on outside the bootcamp so I can examine how they code, see their progression, how interested they are, and differentiate them from the rest of the candidates. I'd also like them to know the very top-level fundamentals (first/second year maybe?) of what you'd learn in Computer Science at a college/university (such as recursion, modularity, encapsulation, etc).

 

In terms of the job market (based on the last time I was a part of it), what I found were that most companies in Vancouver were either looking for mid-level developers, or mid-senior level developers. I found this holds more true for start-up companies (one of which I work for) since I assume they want to get moving quicker. I also find a lot of companies in Vancouver to have average or 'low ball' offers in terms of salaries. So if/when you're done your bootcamp/education, don't limit yourself to Vancouver - if it's anything like I mentioned now. Hope that helps & feel free to message for more info!

 

Saw this today, somewhat relevant: https://www.reddit.com/r/webdev/comments/56gx3z/why_would_a_company_still_be_trying_to_hire_a_dev/

 

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1 hour ago, FallenCR7A said:

I work in the field and I can say make sure you're passionate about this (web dev) before enrolling and not in it for the money. For me at least, it's easy to weed out bootcampers who enrolled for the wrong reason. I've also seen bootcampers who finish their program but have nothing to show for it afterwards (as in, they forget what they learned, can't apply it outside of what they did at the bootcamp, can't extend their knowledge of what they learned, or can't even code 'simple' javascript functions without context of what they learned at the camp). Moreover, if I were to consider hiring someone from a bootcamp, I'd make sure they have additional personal/group projects they worked on outside the bootcamp so I can examine how they code, see their progression, how interested they are, and differentiate them from the rest of the candidates. I'd also like them to know the very top-level fundamentals (first/second year maybe?) of what you'd learn in Computer Science at a college/university (such as recursion, modularity, encapsulation, etc).

 

In terms of the job market (based on the last time I was a part of it), what I found were that most companies in Vancouver were either looking for mid-level developers, or mid-senior level developers. I found this holds more true for start-up companies (one of which I work for) since I assume they want to get moving quicker. I also find a lot of companies in Vancouver to have average or 'low ball' offers in terms of salaries. So if/when you're done your bootcamp/education, don't limit yourself to Vancouver - if it's anything like I mentioned now. Hope that helps & feel free to message for more info!

 

Saw this today, somewhat relevant: https://www.reddit.com/r/webdev/comments/56gx3z/why_would_a_company_still_be_trying_to_hire_a_dev/

 

 

Thank you for your input and your link.

 

I'm in Toronto, but from what I have heard, your experience is not uniquely 'Vancouver'. Employers do search for months on end to find a good programmer. Most senior programmers hate working with fresh junior devs because they end up spending more time fixing junior codes than if they had written them themselves. 

 

I self taught to a point where I can make my own basic calculator with vanilla Javascript. I'm quite proud of that. I will message you the calculator :) Maybe you can tell me if my code sucks or not. But I stopped learning on my own when I got busy with my regular paid work. I'm not busy now so I'm seriously considering diving in for real, put some skin in the game. I need some structure, and some mentoring. They offer job search assistance and they do seem to be able to get jobs for grads. But of course they are a for profit entity so maybe they fudged their data and over promise? I don't really know.

 

Am I passionate about web dev? I don't really know what the word 'passionate' means. I just do what needs to be done. Honestly, I don't love sitting in front of the computer all day googling stack overflow and typing mumble jumble.... I don't love sitting in front of the computer all day, period. But I do love the end result, and I love learning and accomplishing goals. It's an awesome feeling to know when something you built works. And I also like other developers. They are all smart and generous people. And yes, I love and need to have a well paying job for once too. I can't deny steady money is a motivating factor.

 

Do you think I have the attributes and 'intangibles' to be a good dev? 

 

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5 hours ago, Hugor Hill said:

 

Thank you for your input and your link.

 

I'm in Toronto, but from what I have heard, your experience is not uniquely 'Vancouver'. Employers do search for months on end to find a good programmer. Most senior programmers hate working with fresh junior devs because they end up spending more time fixing junior codes than if they had written them themselves. 

 

I self taught to a point where I can make my own basic calculator with vanilla Javascript. I'm quite proud of that. I will message you the calculator :) Maybe you can tell me if my code sucks or not. But I stopped learning on my own when I got busy with my regular paid work. I'm not busy now so I'm seriously considering diving in for real, put some skin in the game. I need some structure, and some mentoring. They offer job search assistance and they do seem to be able to get jobs for grads. But of course they are a for profit entity so maybe they fudged their data and over promise? I don't really know.

 

Am I passionate about web dev? I don't really know what the word 'passionate' means. I just do what needs to be done. Honestly, I don't love sitting in front of the computer all day googling stack overflow and typing mumble jumble.... I don't love sitting in front of the computer all day, period. But I do love the end result, and I love learning and accomplishing goals. It's an awesome feeling to know when something you built works. And I also like other developers. They are all smart and generous people. And yes, I love and need to have a well paying job for once too. I can't deny steady money is a motivating factor.

 

Do you think I have the attributes and 'intangibles' to be a good dev? 

 

 

I got your message. I'll message you back hopefully later tonight.

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