2014 Draft 6th overall Pick Poll

[Byrix]

12 minutes ago, CanadianRugby said:

Or maybe he's had shoulder problems two years in a row now?  You hit when you don't have the puck, it shouldn't hurt his offence so much that he just stops hitting. 

Watching the games, it's obvious Virtanen is still playing hurt.

Logic than dictates:

1. He needs the medical staff here with the big club.

2. He can't lose a job due to injury, send him down would be unfair.

3. He can't take chances with that shoulder again, so he's been told not to hit in games and will sit out as much as possible.

4. Of course the club can't openly announce he's playing hurt.

 

 

so, if Jake is healthy we wouldn't be having this conversation. The focus of the thread should be "Would you have picked a player coming off major shoulder surgery when healthier options were on the board?"

[EmilyM]

9 minutes ago, khay said:

Yes, Nylander is winning by a wide margin at the moment. 

 

If Jake ever becomes a top 6 player, then even if his regular season PPG < Nylander's PPG, I would be happy because Jake has elite skating + physicality to make an impact in the playoff games in various ways that Nylander may not be able to. But yeah, Nylander is already establishing himself as a top 6 player, and probably will become a first liner. 

 

The  cup champions usually have balance of everything plus something(s) that they excel in. For example, Pittsburgh and elite level skill and speed and at least an average level grit and physicality to survive 4 rounds. Chicago (2015 version) had balance of everything plus elite level skill. LA (2014 version) had elite level defending, physicality, and size as well as above average skill.

 

Canucks at the moment do not possess elite level skill, nor speed, nor physicality. We are average in every aspect. If Virtanen ever pans out the way he's supposed to, then he brings elite level speed + physicality + average to above average skill to make good on opportunities created using that elite level speed and physicality of his. The prospect of him reaching that potential seems unclear at the moment, but at the time of the draft, it seemed too good to pass up on.

 

 

Oh yeah for sure. I am not in the camp that is quitting on Jake by any means.
I think the main thing is...

If Nylander pans out to his potential, he is superstar. Toronto has a Crosby/Malkin level of 1-2 punch down the middle for the next 10 years. And so far, all signs point to him being on this trajectory.

If Jake pans out to his potential, he is a stud of a power forward. The likes of who would be a complement on any team in the NHL. And so far, not many signs pointing that he may become that player. His style of play likely will take longer to develop as his is a style that relies on his body to catch up. But he hasn't shown that he possesses the ice intelligence that is waiting for his body to catch up to, though. Not to say he never will, but he hasn't shown it yet.

In a lot of ways, I see it very similar to the Schneider/Horvat comparison. Looks ridiculous as a comparison on paper, but hear me out!

At the time, Schneider was regarded as a potential star that has already shown signs of stardom.

Whereas Horvat was completely green with people projecting his potential as a depth guy.

And the deal worked out for us to date.

 

So yeah, hopefully Jake also reaches that level and beyond some day. But right now, it looks like we missed out on the better player than Jake today who has potential to be an even better player than Jake tomorrow. But a lot of us thought that of Schneider/Horvat too.

[Blömqvist]

At the moment, Nylander > Virtanen

 

That said, during the draft I would still take Virtanen 10/10 times. That's not saying anything against Nylander because he is going to be a real good player, but Jake has that size, skill, and speed combination that is too good to pass up, especially if he reaches his potential.

 

And that's the key here: players reaching their potential. Nylander's potential was always a 60-80 point winger.. a pure scorer. Virtanen's potential is 50-60 point winger that can dominate games with his physicality and speed if he isn't scoring.

[*Buzzsaw*]

Stupid thread which posits a question which is without merit or utility.

 

 

 

[hatedkid666]

I would pick someguy who got drafted in the 7th round that goes onto to have a hall of fame career but we dont know who he is yet

[fanfor42]

4 hours ago, alfstonker said:

Why is it that so many of this fan base can give a "waster" like Kassian an eternity to try to get it into his head but Jake gets called out after one season?

Nailed some of this fan base to T.

[GoBoGo53]

1 hour ago, Blömqvist said:

At the moment, Nylander > Virtanen

 

That said, during the draft I would still take Virtanen 10/10 times. That's not saying anything against Nylander because he is going to be a real good player, but Jake has that size, skill, and speed combination that is too good to pass up, especially if he reaches his potential.

 

And that's the key here: players reaching their potential. Nylander's potential was always a 60-80 point winger.. a pure scorer. Virtanen's potential is 50-60 point winger that can dominate games with his physicality and speed if he isn't scoring.

nylander is probably a center once he gets more experience. He was a center with MODO and with the marlies, and in his development years. Just a winger right now because he needs to gain experience.

In the end, Nylander is probably looking like he ends up putting up first line production (70-80pts) in a 2nd line center role. Being behind Matthews allows him to get easier matchups and drive his own line. 

[Toews]

41 minutes ago, GoBoGo53 said:

nylander is probably a center once he gets more experience. He was a center with MODO and with the marlies, and in his development years. Just a winger right now because he needs to gain experience.

In the end, Nylander is probably looking like he ends up putting up first line production (70-80pts) in a 2nd line center role. Being behind Matthews allows him to get easier matchups and drive his own line. 

To add to this, he is also taking right side draws while Matthews takes the left side. They wouldn't be asking him to do that if they saw him as a winger.

[1-d]

At the time JV was almost consensual choice among the media and fans alike. It would have been a treachery to go with anyone else. He has size, speed and goal scoring abilities -- all of which Canucks were so lacking (and still are).

 

Had we passed on him, I believe whichever team that picked Virtanen would have a top 6 winger in their lineup by now. I don't have faith in this mgmt & coaching staff's philosophy and Jake's development path has been inconsistently zig zagging at best. 

 

Not every young player is built to follow the exact same growth pattern, but hey, what do I know... I'm just another one of those ignorant fans. 

[10pavelbure96]

Virtanen would look good playing with Getzlaf and Perry as well. 

[HockeyHarry]

Virtanen is exactly the kind of player you want in the playoffs...

Nylander is a guy made for regular season...and sells seats.

[shazzam]

6 hours ago, khay said:

Jake is the type of player that can make an impact in the playoffs (if he wants to).

 

Nylander will get you points and wins in the regular season where there is more space and the penalties are called as they should be. So this type of player helps take your team to the playoffs.

 

In the playoffs where the NHL changes up the rules to favour bigger guys, it's not clear if Nylander can be successful unless he is supplemented by a tougher player. In Toronto's case, they have Matthews, a big scoring center, which should solve the problem but we shall see.

 

We have Bo Horvat, who is a big centerman of his own. So, I'd say Nylander would have been fine here. But at the time of the draft, it made a whole lot of sense as to why the team picked Virtanen and I still agree with their decision. I just don't like they way they are handling his development.

 

Tell that to Patrick Kane

[Beary Sweet]

It's way too early to tell but if I could have a redraft I would've drafted a wild card in Larkin. He's a guy that wasn't really expected to get to the NHL right away because he had another year of college with Michigan. When he got to the NHL, boy did he explode into a player we never really thought he would be. But at the time I'm still happy with Virt because he was pure goal scorer in the juniors. One day he will eventually gel into the power forward we all expected him to be.

[khay]

7 minutes ago, shazzam said:

Tell that to Patrick Kane

Tell what to Patrick Kane?

 

I didn't say Nylander will be bad in the playoffs, in the past, elite skill players have known to struggle due to the rule change in the playoffs so until we see how Nylander does in the playoffs, we don't know. And you are already comparing Nylander to Patrick Kane? LOL. I like Nylander but let's wait until end of this season to name him the second coming of Patty Kane?

 

 

[Vanisleryan]

This poll is the single dumbest thread Ive seen all all month. Seriously JB doesnt make picks with a crystal ball. It was a great pick at the time and still might turn out to be a great pick.  Some players take longer to develop. But often when the light bulb comes on its worth the wait.  I remember alot of excited people here on CDC when JV was picked. He hasnt put it all together 2 games into his sophomore year and people are flipping out. Typical. 

[ice orca]

1 hour ago, 10pavelbure96 said:

Virtanen would look good playing with Getzlaf and Perry as well. 

No he wouldn't the guy can't cycle he gets confused. Richie is the power forward we wished Virtanen was. If Jake keeps getting shoulder problems that's the kiss of death to pf 

[asian player]

Ritchie is huge, has an excellent shot and solid hockey sense but since he's not a Canucks prospect he's fat and he'll bust. In hindsight, Nylander was far and away the bpa but at the time I thought Ritchie would've been excellent for us. 

[Toews]

1 hour ago, khay said:

Tell what to Patrick Kane?

 

I didn't say Nylander will be bad in the playoffs, in the past, elite skill players have known to struggle due to the rule change in the playoffs so until we see how Nylander does in the playoffs, we don't know. And you are already comparing Nylander to Patrick Kane? LOL. I like Nylander but let's wait until end of this season to name him the second coming of Patty Kane?

 

 

Nikita Kucherov has wrecked just about every single team he has faced in the playoffs in his short career. He didn't need a "tough" player beside him either while on a line with Tyler Johnson and Ondrej Palat. The game becomes difficult for all players in the playoffs, mostly because the quality of the opposition also increases. There is no one type of player that is more susceptible to under performing in the playoffs. Just ask Rick Nash.

[oldnews]

9 hours ago, Ichiban604 said:

Its been 2 years now. It is still early. Our opinion changes from time to time. I wanted the canucks to pick William Nylander basic on his high skill set and the swedish connection. My 2nd choice was Ehlers. Both of these players were conisder to be soft at the time, as then Nhl was build on strength, physical play, and big body. Time changed fast, looking at nhl this year (or last year), speed and skill is more important. Base on how Bosten and Kings had huge success a few years ago, compare to now. Jake Virtanen is not a bust, some players needs more time to develop, especially for the power forward position. Who will you pick if you can go back in time?

by the time this matters, the NHL will have changed back.

and then back again.

and then forward again.

 

or not.

Maybe it hasn't really changed, actually.  There's always the ongoing dynamic of heavy, hard to play against teams vs fleet, puck moving, up tempo teams.  I wouldn't expect that to change as much as people seem to percieve.  The NHL may get faster, but at the same time, the combination of speed, size and skill will never grow old.

 

People need to have a little patience with Virtanen.

 

[khay]

5 minutes ago, Toews said:

Nikita Kucherov has wrecked just about every single team he has faced in the playoffs in his short career. He didn't need a "tough" player beside him either while on a line with Tyler Johnson and Ondrej Palat. The game becomes difficult for all players in the playoffs, mostly because the quality of the opposition also increases. There is no one type of player that is more susceptible to under performing in the playoffs. Just ask Rick Nash.

Again, I didn't say Nylander will suck in the playoffs.

 

But Virtanen type players have higher chance of withstanding the physicality of the playoffs.

 

Smaller players do have success but when they do, it's something to be talked about. Like Kucherov. Big physical players suffer less from the change of environment.

 

Rick Nash is skill player in a big man's body that doesn't like to use his body. For every Rick Nash, there are hundreds of Getzlaf's, Perry's, Kopitar's, etc etc.