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[Discussion] Win Now or Develop


Crabcakes

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What's the difference between Winning Now and Developing going forward?

 

In theory, Winning Now would mean playing the best possible players in the line up.  So, the best possible 19 players start every game.  Internal competition would be the way.  Young guys would have to out compete veterans in order to play.

 

Developing I would presume would be what they were doing last year.  Place young players in positions to succeed, sheltered from hard minutes and match ups by veteran players.  Young players need to get the reps (ice time) in order to develop, so we tolerate the inevitable mistakes.  And there is a strong leadership group in place to show the young guys what it takes to be a pro.

 

In preparation for this Win Now plan, Benning shored up his top 4 defense by adding the physical shut down player, Gudbranson.  He also added Doug Jarvis who would implement a system that would help with defensive play mainly in the neutral zone.  The consequences of this seem to be offense in the short term.  It remains to be seen if as players get more used to the system, offense will improve.  

 

It is clear that things are never simple and exceptions must always be made for various reasons.  I'm talking about playing Larsen over Stecher, playing Burrows and Dorsett over Labate, Gaunce, Zalewski and possibly others who are faster and harder to play against, but are younger, less reliable, and have unproven leadership skills.  But having strong leaders to show the kids the way is the Development model.

 

You could argue that earning a spot over a veteran is a very good way to develop a younger player but it is clear from the Dejardins interview today, that he doesn't want Virtanen to play on the 4th line much because he doesn't want his skilled guys developing 4th line habits.  So, to make a point to Jake, and to get him to raise his intensity, he'll play him on the 4th line in the short term but he really wants Jake on the 3rd line.  What if Jake doesn't raise his game?  Is it off to Utica?  Neither WD nor JB want that either.

 

In the end, I'm not so sure this Win Now strategy is any different than last years Development strategy as we look closer.  The real difference in play is Doug Jarvis' neutral zone defensive system.

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20 minutes ago, ForsbergTheGreat said:

Since we aren't a cup contending the goal should be develop.... and keep developing until we are a cup contending team

I thought we have been through this philosophical debate before?  JB has a directive from the owner to do both: win niwnd develop a new core.  Is not the question: is it possible to accomplish both at the same time?  

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32 minutes ago, Alflives said:

I thought we have been through this philosophical debate before?  JB has a directive from the owner to do both: win niwnd develop a new core.  Is not the question: is it possible to accomplish both at the same time?  

Chicago.

 

They were a top team for years and drafted players every yea that went on to play good roles for them.

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56 minutes ago, Alflives said:

I thought we have been through this philosophical debate before?  JB has a directive from the owner to do both: win niwnd develop a new core.  Is not the question: is it possible to accomplish both at the same time?  

Could this be spin by management to keep ownership happy?  I'm not so sure much is really different other than playing under a more defensive system.

 

 

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Henrik last week: "It's not about developing players," said Sedin. "We are playing to win. Every situation is important. Putting guys out there for offensive faceoffs, defensive faceoffs, everything. There is a lot more coaching and it's about winning this year, it's not about maybe developing the young guys like it was last season."

 

Example Baer-Horvat.  Not sure how playing them as a shutdown line with Skille is going to help them take the next step.

Looks to me like they are pretty content to keep Horvat in a shutdown role instead of developing his offence.  Not sure what they are doing with Baer especially with Green having commented at the time of the trade that he was miscast in a defensive role.  

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Honestly I am not sure why everyone is debating this...at some point the rebuild will happen whether management wants it or not....The Sedans will retire or even worse show their age in which there won't be any options. 

 

FA won't work because there are no Top line C's or Top pair D's available anymore. Our young core will be decent but will not finish anywhere near the playoffs. 

 

In my opinion let's try for the playoffs while the Sedins are around...when they retire the rebuild will start....anyways the next couple of drafts look like the Hall, RNH, & Yak level drafts so don't care for those 1st overall anyways. 

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5 hours ago, Nex is my ex said:

What people don't seem to understand is we are still in the Sedin era.. You don't rebuild with stars already on your team you try to win a cup with them. When the Sedins retire, that's when the rebuild starts.

 

but are the Stars really Stars anymore?

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5 hours ago, mll said:

Henrik last week: "It's not about developing players," said Sedin. "We are playing to win. Every situation is important. Putting guys out there for offensive faceoffs, defensive faceoffs, everything. There is a lot more coaching and it's about winning this year, it's not about maybe developing the young guys like it was last season."

 

Example Baer-Horvat.  Not sure how playing them as a shutdown line with Skille is going to help them take the next step.

Looks to me like they are pretty content to keep Horvat in a shutdown role instead of developing his offence.  Not sure what they are doing with Baer especially with Green having commented at the time of the trade that he was miscast in a defensive role.  

We are so doomed.  I love the Twins, but that public statement by .Henrik is a serious concern.

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10 hours ago, Stamkos said:

Chicago.

 

They were a top team for years and drafted players every yea that went on to play good roles for them.

True as of late but there were a lot of years prior where they weren't and the league saw them as an easy 2 points on the schedule before this generation evolved.

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11 hours ago, Alflives said:

I thought we have been through this philosophical debate before?  JB has a directive from the owner to do both: win niwnd develop a new core.  Is not the question: is it possible to accomplish both at the same time?  

It's possibly to develop and remain competitive.  Which is what we should be doing, that's we the successful teams have done,

 

Develop and contend is much harder to do. Take the hawks and Kings,  they been good at finding depth but in order to keep their pushes, they've been trading away first round picks like candy the last 3 years and eventually it will come back to haunt them. But in the mean time they are going to win as many cups as possible. 

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9 hours ago, Nex is my ex said:

What people don't seem to understand is we are still in the Sedin era.. You don't rebuild with stars already on your team you try to win a cup with them. When the Sedins retire, that's when the rebuild starts.

The Canucks have been acquiring some good young players and prospects over the past 2-3yrs, so I think they are beyond the 'starting a rebuild stage'.  When the Sedins retire, the team will be farther along than people are suggesting.

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38 minutes ago, higgyfan said:

The Canucks have been acquiring some good young players and prospects over the past 2-3yrs, so I think they are beyond the 'starting a rebuild stage'.  When the Sedins retire, the team will be farther along than people are suggesting.

Agree!!

 

That said until that time when the Sedins retire and WD leaves (not really a solid development coach imo) it is going to be a bumpy ride. .

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3 minutes ago, Ronaldoescobar said:

Agree!!

 

That said until that time when the Sedins retire and WD leaves (not really a solid development coach imo) it is going to be a bumpy ride. .

So true, Ronald.  And by the looks of many of the treads since the recent losses...it ain't gonna be pretty.

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1 minute ago, higgyfan said:

So true, Ronald.  And by the looks of many of the treads since the recent losses...it ain't gonna be pretty.

Not pretty at all but you will see the true supporters stand by the team and go through it with them knowing this is how a rebuild goes. Most of the whining and complaining will be from those claiming to be "fans" but are just bandwagon jumpers from 2011.

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2 hours ago, ForsbergTheGreat said:

It's possibly to develop and remain competitive.  Which is what we should be doing, that's we the successful teams have done,

 

Develop and contend is much harder to do. Take the hawks and Kings,  they been good at finding depth but in order to keep their pushes, they've been trading away first round picks like candy the last 3 years and eventually it will come back to haunt them. But in the mean time they are going to win as many cups as possible. 

Do you think those two teams, when their cores get too old to compete, will bottom out, collect young assets and picks, and start over?  In other words, not do what we are currently trying to do.

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17 minutes ago, Alflives said:

Do you think those two teams, when their cores get too old to compete, will bottom out, collect young assets and picks, and start over?  In other words, not do what we are currently trying to do.

 

Will the hawks in 5 years just plan on bottoming out to recoup assets? Or will they continue to try and add pieces to remain competitive.  I doubt they will be willing to bottom out. 

 

Some teams do, but to think that's the only cycle teams follow is inaccurate.  Stars, sharks, wings, Bruins, predators, Flyers haven't bottomed out.  

 

Canucks didn't bottom out to get WCE.  Bottoming out is one but far from the only method to building a core.

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