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Surrey Creep Catchers Rant


Bunter Shinkorvat

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I try not to watch Creep Catcher videos as I do not condone their form of citizen vigilantism. Just last month their Edmonton chapter drove a mentally ill woman into suicide. Through comments and shares from multiple friends that appeared on my Facebook feed, I watched a video uploaded by Ryan Laforge (Surrey Creep Catcher President) that enraged me and made me want to throw up. No, not because a man wanted to meet with a 14 year old girl but because it could have been another suicide with Creep Catcher's hands all over it.

 

I'm not going to post the link to the video because it probably violates the rules of the board. It is still on Laforge's Facebook page and as much as I don't want to be part of the problem by spreading that garbage of a video, I think it is important to have a discussion about the implications of its existence. The video starts off like any other one. A meetup with the accused at a public setting, interrogation (more like harassment), etc. What is different about this video compared to some of the other ones I have seen is that this guy goes out on a full panic attack when he realizes he's been busted. In the 5+ min video he mentions previous thoughts of suicide and even threatens to take his own life that very night if he were to get exposed (running out to traffic to get smoked by a car). Was it an act or was he in full medical distress? It doesn't matter and it is no one's job to decipher that. So what do Laforge and his simpletons do? They call his bluff. They insinuate that he might just be a very good actor. No one picks up the phone to call 911. You even have one disgusting dude put up a phone to the accused's face to tell him to say "Surrey Creep Catchers got me". Absolutely despicable. It doesn't end there. Things get really ugly when the interaction is about to end Laforge tells the accused of his intentions to publicly shame him. The guy goes into even more distress, gets up off the ground and sprints to god knows where.

 

"He's faking it" - Laforge's final words before the video ends.

 

These guys have zero regard for public safety. What is even worse is that he has garnered such a big following that the majority of people applauded his actions that night. Reading through the comments section of the video you get words of encouragement from his followers. "Good job Ryan for taking this guy off the street", "Who cares he doesn't deserve to live", amongst many others. Any posts from sensible people regarding their concern about the situation were met with petty name calling and insults. Do these guys not realize that it could have been their own loved ones on the road that could have been driving at that time causing an accident by swerving and not hitting the guy? They defend to no avail the safety of a hypothetical 14 year old girl that was not there  yet they disregard the lives of people that could have been affected that very same night. I haven't even mentioned anything about the issue of due process yet.

 

I'm sure deep down some of these guys mean well. But man, if they have no safeguards for instances like this they should not be doing this at all. I read some of the comments on his video post and it is alarming how many psychiatric experts were in on the discussion saying the guy was "obviously faking it". Unbelievable.

 

Just a rant. Watching the video got me pretty rattled. I was going to post on the comments section but seeing how some concerned people were treated with their opinions, I refrained. Any lawyers in here want to chime in as to what the legal repercussions would have been had a suicide took place?

 

Thoughts, opinions from everyone else?

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My opinion on the matter is that this could easily ruin innocent people's lives. How?

 

I could EASILY setup ANYONE to get caught by these guys. I could simply go onto the dating sites where I know creep catchers are and I contact underage girls and set a meet up with them. Then, I tell someone I don't really like, or maybe someone I want to play a prank on, that I am hooking him up with a hot girl (because, you know, it would be HILARIOUS to see your college buddy on creep catchers...). So I give the guy her name, photo, etc. and tell him she will meet him in front of whatever restaurant. He shows up and goes "Are you so and so?" and creep catchers jumps on him.

 

That's how you ruin an innocent persons life and it's why creep catchers shouldn't exist. It's why there's a court system out there that doesn't ruin peoples lives until they are proven innocent.

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These people (in this instance by the sounds of it, a lonely suicidal dude who agreed to meet with a hypothetical 14 year old girl) should be seeking help and not doing something that is both illegal and immoral. And in the end it is still this person's decision to run into the street and endanger lives of others.

 

Personally I wouldn't toss the blame onto those harassing a guy who has those sorts of intentions. 

 

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19 minutes ago, 'NucK™ said:

These people (in this instance by the sounds of it, a lonely suicidal dude who agreed to meet with a hypothetical 14 year old girl) should be seeking help and not doing something that is both illegal and immoral. And in the end it is still this person's decision to run into the street and endanger lives of others.

 

Personally I wouldn't toss the blame onto those harassing a guy who has those sorts of intentions. 

 

Thanks for participating in the discussion.

 

I am not disputing the fact what he did was illegal or immoral. Any responsible adult should know the legal consequences to meeting a minor without parental consent. The question I want to throw back to you is: Just because it is a person's decision to endanger themselves and others, bystanders shouldn't have any obligation to help? Not even the simple act of pulling up the phone to call for medical personnel?

 

What about due process? 

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A major issue I have with these guys is that they don't disclose their whole process. I had the opportunity to look at a full exchange in my legal practice. The process was basically they:

 

1) Put up an add for an 18 year in the platonic section of craigslist. 

2) Provided seductive pictures of a women who clearly was not 14 years old.

3) Then create an exchange between the target creep and the girl. 

4) Alert the target that the girl is actually 14, and then ask them if they still want to meet up.

 

They certainly don't disclose all of this. The conversation I saw also made no mention of sex. Obviously it takes extremely bad judgement for an adult to want to meet a 14 year old girl (even if not for sex) and many of them do have the intent to break the law and commit statutory rape. That being said, Creep Catchers is definitely taking liberties with their editing process for the purpose of sensationalism. If they are going to use these videos for the purpose of public shaming, they should disclose all the material they have.

 

It also seems like this process is more about encouraging people to make a bad judgement call than catching adults who are actively out luring children. 

 

 

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35 minutes ago, taxi said:

A major issue I have with these guys is that they don't disclose their whole process. I had the opportunity to look at a full exchange in my legal practice. The process was basically they:

 

1) Put up an add for an 18 year in the platonic section of craigslist. 

2) Provided seductive pictures of a women who clearly was not 14 years old.

3) Then create an exchange between the target creep and the girl. 

4) Alert the target that the girl is actually 14, and then ask them if they still want to meet up.

 

They certainly don't disclose all of this. The conversation I saw also made no mention of sex. Obviously it takes extremely bad judgement for an adult to want to meet a 14 year old girl (even if not for sex) and many of them do have the intent to break the law and commit statutory rape. That being said, Creep Catchers is definitely taking liberties with their editing process for the purpose of sensationalism. If they are going to use these videos for the purpose of public shaming, they should disclose all the material they have.

 

It also seems like this process is more about encouraging people to make a bad judgement call than catching adults who are actively out luring children. 

 

 

Of course they don't disclose the whole process. That might take away some of the entertaiment value that these videos provide for some of the sheeple that follow this Ryan Laforge dude. Very  un-professional and as the police have stated over and over some of the predtors have been under " surveilance " for some time and these little run in's just lead to most of them being smarter the next time.

They do make an income from this as well with posting the videos on social media so they are not really the Super Heroes some make them out to be.

 

 

 

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1 hour ago, Bunter Shinkorvat said:

Thanks for participating in the discussion.

 

I am not disputing the fact what he did was illegal or immoral. Any responsible adult should know the legal consequences to meeting a minor without parental consent. The question I want to throw back to you is: Just because it is a person's decision to endanger themselves and others, bystanders shouldn't have any obligation to help? Not even the simple act of pulling up the phone to call for medical personnel?

 

What about due process? 

Well I agree people should be more compassionate. You can't expect these Creep Catcher people to act that way with people they "catch"

 

And can't they show evidence after the fact for due process? I think if there is concrete evidence of this person's intent then they should be charged. if it is really casual meetups with 18 year olds that you guys are saying is the "bait", these people are accomplishing nothing..

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8 minutes ago, Alflives said:

This is simple.  The target, as the OP calls this person is a sicko, and should take a long walk off a short pier.  Zero sympathy for sicko wacko types.  Is that simple enough?

 

So put it in regular citizen's hands to be judge, jury and executioner? What precedence does this set for other people that want to mimic the actions and behaviours of Creep Catchers? For the record I never called the guy a sicko. Do I think he was there to do have a sexual contact with a minor? Yes, probably, but that is my personal opinion. What was shown in the video was that the accused had symptoms of a mentally ill person threatening to put harm to himself and endangering the lives of others. So to answer your question, no, it's not that simple because there could have been disastrous consequences for more than just one person involved.

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1 minute ago, Bunter Shinkorvat said:

 

So put it in regular citizen's hands to be judge, jury and executioner? What precedence does this set for other people that want to mimic the actions and behaviours of Creep Catchers? For the record I never called the guy a sicko. Do I think he was there to do have a sexual contact with a minor? Yes, probably, but that is my personal opinion. What was shown in the video was that the accused had symptoms of a mentally ill person threatening to put harm to himself and endangering the lives of others. So to answer your question, no, it's not that simple because there could have been disastrous consequences for more than just one person involved.

You're opinion is wrong.  This person is a sicko, and should be put down.  Again, I have zero NONE sympathy for wackos.  I read here that those Creep 

catches got a policeman.  Good.  If these sickos don't commit suicide, then lock them up forever.  LOSER sickos.  No sympathy.  

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1 minute ago, Alflives said:

You're opinion is wrong.  This person is a sicko, and should be put down.  Again, I have zero NONE sympathy for wackos.  I read here that those Creep 

catches got a policeman.  Good.  If these sickos don't commit suicide, then lock them up forever.  LOSER sickos.  No sympathy.  

 

:lol: My opinion can't be wrong because I stated it as an opinion and not as a fact. You claim that this person is a sicko and should be put down yet you've only heard one side of the story nor have you read the chat logs that preceded it. It also shows your complete disregard for people with mental issues. You read that Creep Catchers got a policeman? Did you also read how they also mistakenly identified another police officer, an innocent man and baited a mentally ill woman, subsequently causing her to commit suicide? You're essentially handing out a death sentence before weighing the damages of the crime. Maybe try answering the questions more thoroughly with a well thought out response than with heated emotion.

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2 minutes ago, Bunter Shinkorvat said:

 

:lol: My opinion can't be wrong because I stated it as an opinion and not as a fact. You claim that this person is a sicko and should be put down yet you've only heard one side of the story nor have you read the chat logs that preceded it. It also shows your complete disregard for people with mental issues. You read that Creep Catchers got a policeman? Did you also read how they also mistakenly identified another police officer, an innocent man and baited a mentally ill woman, subsequently causing her to commit suicide? You're essentially handing out a death sentence before weighing the damages of the crime. Maybe try answering the questions more thoroughly with a well thought out response than with heated emotion.

Not even reading your post.  On this matter you are against the perverts, or dead to me. 

 

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41 minutes ago, 'NucK™ said:

Well I agree people should be more compassionate. You can't expect these Creep Catcher people to act that way with people they "catch"

 

And can't they show evidence after the fact for due process? I think if there is concrete evidence of this person's intent then they should be charged. if it is really casual meetups with 18 year olds that you guys are saying is the "bait", these people are accomplishing nothing..

 

Due process is defined as fair treatment through the normal judicial system. Before each video starts they have a disclaimer that says whomever is in the video is considered innocent until proven guilty. Only thing is the way they paint their picture is pretty one sided and by the time the video is over the accused looks guilty as hell. And like taxi mentioned, they don't disclose everything especially the chat logs. In the court of law a successful criminal prosecution needs to be proved beyond a reasonable doubt and with many of the chat logs that I have seen there is such a big grey area that is open to interpretation.

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3 hours ago, taxi said:

A major issue I have with these guys is that they don't disclose their whole process. I had the opportunity to look at a full exchange in my legal practice. The process was basically they:

 

1) Put up an add for an 18 year in the platonic section of craigslist. 

2) Provided seductive pictures of a women who clearly was not 14 years old.

3) Then create an exchange between the target creep and the girl. 

4) Alert the target that the girl is actually 14, and then ask them if they still want to meet up.

 

They certainly don't disclose all of this. The conversation I saw also made no mention of sex. Obviously it takes extremely bad judgement for an adult to want to meet a 14 year old girl (even if not for sex) and many of them do have the intent to break the law and commit statutory rape. That being said, Creep Catchers is definitely taking liberties with their editing process for the purpose of sensationalism. If they are going to use these videos for the purpose of public shaming, they should disclose all the material they have.

 

It also seems like this process is more about encouraging people to make a bad judgement call than catching adults who are actively out luring children. 

 

 

Lawyer eh?  Hire a grammar consultant.

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5 hours ago, tbone909 said:

Of course they don't disclose the whole process. That might take away some of the entertaiment value that these videos provide for some of the sheeple that follow this Ryan Laforge dude. Very  un-professional and as the police have stated over and over some of the predtors have been under " surveilance " for some time and these little run in's just lead to most of them being smarter the next time.

They do make an income from this as well with posting the videos on social media so they are not really the Super Heroes some make them out to be.

 

 

 

It's a tough call. Many of the people they catch are "sickos". However, as you say, the creep catchers are also benefiting financially from the situation and are clearly exploiting it for profit.

 

 

 

As for my grammar, I post mostly from my phone and suggest that grammar Nazis find something more productive to do with their time :)

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4 hours ago, Alflives said:

Not even reading your post.  On this matter you are against the perverts, or dead to me. 

 

If you read the posts he is clearly against the perverts. He is also against vigilante justice because the group can and has caused massive problems for people who are not perverts. It is a problem when innocent people are being publicly shamed for something they didn't do. 

 

Creep catchers essentially are doing the same thing to some potentially innocent people that a pervert is doing to a child. The justice system may not be doing enough to stop these perverts or handing out enough punishment however creep catchers certainly isnt the answer. 

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5 hours ago, LarsEller said:

If you read the posts he is clearly against the perverts. He is also against vigilante justice because the group can and has caused massive problems for people who are not perverts. It is a problem when innocent people are being publicly shamed for something they didn't do. 

 

Creep catchers essentially are doing the same thing to some potentially innocent people that a pervert is doing to a child. The justice system may not be doing enough to stop these perverts or handing out enough punishment however creep catchers certainly isnt the answer. 

A pervert was exposed, period.  End discussion.

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17 minutes ago, Alflives said:

A pervert was exposed, period.  End discussion.

They eposed the wrong name and ruined an innocent life.

 

You view is over simplistic, an example for you.   There is a drug house on your street, the tenants in that house have been selling drugs to kids. The neighbour hood watch  burns down the entire block, including your place.   End of discussion?

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