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Who can come in and cleanup this franchise?


Lui's Knob

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Hate to say it but.......the team needs a total tear down.

 

They need a rudder and a keel on the ship.

 

The fans didn't need 2 1/2 years of convincing to agree to a total rebuild.

 

I sympathize for the Sedins, who as they get older and still put out as hard as they do, this management group is making them look more older and ineffective every game now.

 

Who could fix this apart, from time, honestly I think there have been more than one good idea on the forum that might help.

First has to be the decision, determination and will to do some radical things. 

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22 minutes ago, The 5th Line said:

 

 They all had Nail Yakupov the consensus #1 pick as well.  Sometimes players fool the scouts with certain skills which again is why you need to draft players with a high IQ and a high character, the interview processes can come in to play here. We have all been spoon fed this "drafting guru stuff" so I would hope that Benning knows what he is doing.   It's not just one year of the NHL that is proving my doubts, it's his draft +1 with the Hitmen, the two WJHC's and his brief stint in the AHL all of which were pretty terrible.  

 

Button had him ranked in the second round and that is looking a bit more realistic at this point.  Jake can turn it around but it would be a miracle if he turns it around enough to become an impact player(top 6 on a cup contending team)  This is all mostly from judging what I have seen when he was playing against his peers in Junior.  

 

We have to sit here and watch Calgary get Monahan and Tkatchuk with their two 6th overall picks, they are making immediate impacts and we are stuck with Jake who continues to struggle.  Frustrating

 

I was hoping that Jake would have had more of an impact by now too, but I think its far too early to write him off.

I can bring up counter examples too.  Remember when Bo went to the WJHC and did nothing, then went down to the AHL for a few games and did nothing? Lots were writing him off already.

 

Even with his limited ice time Jake had some pretty good underlying stats last year.  There were 438 forwards who played 200 minutes last season, Jake was ranked 12th best in shot attempt suppression relative to his team.

 

http://stats.hockeyanalysis.com/ratings.php?disp=1&db=201516&sit=5v5&pos=forwards&minutes=200&teamid=0&type=corsi&sort=A60RelTM&sortdir=ASC

 

Regarding Monahan and Tkatchuk.  Those guys were given the green light from day one with top PP minutes and top 6 minutes.  Here, in Vancouver land where Aqua wants to make the playoffs, Bo's line hardly even gets a start in the O zone.  Not only is Jake playing behind the 8 ball, he is playing limited minutes.  But speaking of Calgary, they are doing worse than the Canucks and many of their fans are trashing Monahan right now because he is playing far too soft and looking far too disinterested.

 

Anyhow, its unfortunate the team sucks right now because we look at other teams and look at some of their players and wish our young guys can start putting up some of the same numbers.

 

 

 

 

 

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23 minutes ago, Gollumpus said:

 

I don't recall suggesting that the addition of these players has turned the team into a "powerhouse", however, I do believe that the team is better with them than without. And certainly obtaining these guys is not the end of this re-build/tool/what-ever, but it does help 

 

Feel free to spin and tweak (or twerk) this to fit your agenda of doom and gloom. :)

 

                                     regards,  G.

 

Made us better for what? 

 

What team retools or rebuilds with a 6x6 31Yr old UFA? 

 

How about going to

the draft you finished 3rd last in with fewer picks than most of the playoff teams? Is that retooling? 

 

How about eating all your UFA's. Always. 

 

We are going for it. I don't know what else management has to do to make that clear. "This isn't about Developing players, it's about winning now"

 

i know you are Mr cool and Coy cat but I find it hard to believe you can't be seeing this in the back of your mind. 

 

Regards, LB.

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Until the Sedin's retire no one can. We have 14M of payroll tied up in 2nd line players. This is very unique.

There is no other team in the league with our predicament because they're a package that have NMC's and couldn't be taking on by any team.

Toronto had Sundin or Phaneuf,  Calgary - Iginla ... single players that someone could take on in a trade.

 

The rest of the league knows this making us a difficult team to sign players for decent dollars.

 

The best thing JB/WD can do is play our young talent decent minutes on PP1 , PK1 now, Put players like Bo, Granny, Baer, Gaunce, Hutton, Tram, Stecher in pressured responsible positions with some vet presence. If they can't handle the pressure sit them for a game or 2 and bring them back in again until they get it. 

At least if we lose, we have a long term plan in mind.

for the vets, break them up and spread the experience. Tanev- Tram.... Edler - Stecher. separating the Sedin's on different lines and keeping them separated would be great experience for the youngins..  Daniel- horvat- hansen..... Baer- Hendrik - Sutter.... Eriksson- granny - burrows.... or something like that.

 

One thing we should not have done as an organization is market Virtanen like we have. You don't market an unproven product. All that does is feed an ego, add more pressure on a player that has simply not matured enough yet, especially in a Canadian market.

 

 

 

 

 

 

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26 minutes ago, TheGuardian_ said:

Hate to say it but.......the team needs a total tear down.

 

They need a rudder and a keel on the ship.

 

The fans didn't need 2 1/2 years of convincing to agree to a total rebuild.

 

I sympathize for the Sedins, who as they get older and still put out as hard as they do, this management group is making them look more older and ineffective every game now.

 

Who could fix this apart, from time, honestly I think there have been more than one good idea on the forum that might help.

First has to be the decision, determination and will to do some radical things. 

Yeah, you hate to say it.  It just pains you.  Which is why it's the only thing you ever say.

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10 minutes ago, WhoseTruckWasIt said:

Yeah, you hate to say it.  It just pains you.  Which is why it's the only thing you ever say.

Now I do because it's either that or years of being a mid range non contender, but 4 years ago, even 2 years ago, I was for the quick, controlled and planned out dip like Tampa has done twice now, and then a come back with support for the Sedins. But 3 years got wasted and now the Sedins can barely take the weight of the team on their shoulders.

 

As Dale Tallon has stated a couple of times now, you have to get bad, before you can get good.

 

IMO, the team should try to control any positioning, they do when trying to win, why not have a plan if that isn't possible? If they don't have contingency plans then they are being re-active rather than being pro-active and letting other teams control what they do.

 

 

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and this absolutely idiotic thread is why this fan base would never tolerate a maple leafs style tear down (not that it's effective anyway).  The same people crying for a tear down are now the same posters who caome on here and create thread after thread about how horrible the team is now.......imagine the reaction to a decade of losses?

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20 minutes ago, Darius71 said:

 

I was hoping that Jake would have had more of an impact by now too, but I think its far too early to write him off.

I can bring up counter examples too.  Remember when Bo went to the WJHC and did nothing, then went down to the AHL for a few games and did nothing? Lots were writing him off already.

 

Even with his limited ice time Jake had some pretty good underlying stats last year.  There were 438 forwards who played 200 minutes last season, Jake was ranked 12th best in shot attempt suppression relative to his team.

 

http://stats.hockeyanalysis.com/ratings.php?disp=1&db=201516&sit=5v5&pos=forwards&minutes=200&teamid=0&type=corsi&sort=A60RelTM&sortdir=ASC

 

Regarding Monahan and Tkatchuk.  Those guys were given the green light from day one with top PP minutes and top 6 minutes.  Here, in Vancouver land where Aqua wants to make the playoffs, Bo's line hardly even gets a start in the O zone.  Not only is Jake playing behind the 8 ball, he is playing limited minutes.  But speaking of Calgary, they are doing worse than the Canucks and many of their fans are trashing Monahan right now because he is playing far too soft and looking far too disinterested.

 

Anyhow, its unfortunate the team sucks right now because we look at other teams and look at some of their players and wish our young guys can start putting up some of the same numbers.

 

 

 

 

 

well he needs to get away from WD and his 7 mins a game allotment

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22 minutes ago, LaBamba said:

 

Made us better for what? 

 

What team retools or rebuilds with a 6x6 31Yr old UFA? 

 

How about going to

the draft you finished 3rd last in with fewer picks than most of the playoff teams? Is that retooling? 

 

How about eating all your UFA's. Always. 

 

We are going for it. I don't know what else management has to do to make that clear. "This isn't about Developing players, it's about winning now"

 

i know you are Mr cool and Coy cat but I find it hard to believe you can't be seeing this in the back of your mind. 

 

Regards, LB.

 

 

                                        regards,  G.

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17 minutes ago, TheGuardian_ said:

Now I do because it's either that or years of being a mid range non contender, but 4 years ago, even 2 years ago, I was for the quick, controlled and planned out dip like Tampa has done twice now, and then a come back with support for the Sedins. But 3 years got wasted and now the Sedins can barely take the weight of the team on their shoulders.

 

As Dale Tallon has stated a couple of times now, you have to get bad, before you can get good.

 

IMO, the team should try to control any positioning, they do when trying to win, why not have a plan if that isn't possible? If they don't have contingency plans then they are being re-active rather than being pro-active and letting other teams control what they do.

 

 

In Florida's case (as well as with the Hawks and the Islanders etc), having a change in ownership helps. Is it merely co-incidence that there was improvement in those markets when a new ownership spending philosophy came in (ie. no internal cap)?

 

On the other hand, yes you have to get bad before you can get good, but it certainly didn't help with Edmonton getting all of those high picks and not providing them with  support. It's also interesting to note that they may have finally turned the corner once they got lucky in the draft (again) and were able to select a generational player (McDavid) rather than all of those scrubs like Hall, RNH and Yakupov. The several years prior to the '15 draft seems to have been a waste of negative effort.

 

                                                                        regards, G.

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1 minute ago, Gollumpus said:

In Florida's case (as well as with the Hawks and the Islanders etc), having a change in ownership helps. Is it merely co-incidence that there was improvement in those markets when a new ownership spending philosophy came in (ie. no internal cap)?

 

On the other hand, yes you have to get bad before you can get good, but it certainly didn't help with Edmonton getting all of those high picks and not providing them with  support. It's also interesting to note that they may have finally turned the corner once they got lucky in the draft (again) and were able to select a generational player (McDavid) rather than all of those scrubs like Hall, RNH and Yakupov. The several years prior to the '15 draft seems to have been a waste of negative effort.

 

                                                                        regards, G.

And clean management's house of all the old players and their cronies.

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13 minutes ago, awalk said:

You can't keep changing management and coaching staff every 3-5 years and expect to build a winning franchise. 

Well, you can if you're the Oilers, and you finally draft a guy like McDavid. :P

 

                                             regards,  G.

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4 minutes ago, TheGuardian_ said:

And clean management's house of all the old players and their cronies.

 

I hear your point. This being said, Garth Snow has been in charge of the Islanders since '09, and Tallon was around for the start of the Hawks' upswing (Toews, Kane), and is doing fairly well in Florida.

 

                                                            regards,  G.

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I think you said it.  If JB feels this is a playoff team...and the team is failing... doesn't that point to coaching? 

Look at pitsburg....they were a 500 team, changed coaches and won the Stanley cup.  Coaching has a MASSIVE

impact on the game....I honestly don't believe Willie's decisions are getting the most out of this lineup....

 

So, who can shake things up?  Pick a successful seasoned NHL coach.....maybe one who has won a cup?  ooorrr has some

history with current players?  Hmmmmmm

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