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Who can come in and cleanup this franchise?


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15 hours ago, stawns said:

and this absolutely idiotic thread is why this fan base would never tolerate a maple leafs style tear down (not that it's effective anyway).  The same people crying for a tear down are now the same posters who caome on here and create thread after thread about how horrible the team is now.......imagine the reaction to a decade of losses?

yeah and we should have drafted Kyle Beech instead of Cody Hodgson cause you know best

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43 minutes ago, Harvey Spector said:

 

Imagine if we tore it up like Toronto or Edmonton and had 10 bottom dwelling seasons in a row?  There'd be no one left at the games and we'd be called the Memphis Canucks. But that's what some posters want, to trade every asset and start from scratch. 

 

To be fair, management and ownership has never actually tried a proper rebuild. They've continued to sell fans on playoffs despite the odds being against us. I don't think it's a surprise when fans turn their backs when they see the same old garbage on the ice after being promised a better team. Especially with ticket prices continuing to be some of the highest in the league.

 

If they were to do what Toronto did and give the fans a clear direction, I'm pretty sure fans would get on board. Getting a young star would be a hell of alot more reason to go to games than what we're seeing. The problem is selling fans BS year after year. After awhile fans just won't buy it anymore.

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1 hour ago, Harvey Spector said:

Imagine if we tore it up like Toronto or Edmonton and had 10 bottom dwelling seasons in a row?  There'd be no one left at the games and we'd be called the Memphis Canucks. But that's what some posters want, to trade every asset and start from scratch. 

We had a window right after our best seasons and cup run to realize it was falling apart and capitalize. That window involved a few drafts with star or even superstar players where we could have been ok to bottom out and try for a player who would be playing for us at a high level already.

  • The MacKinnon draft: MacKinnon and Barkov - I'd even settle for Jones, Drouin, Lindholm or Monahan. Thankfully we got Horvat with our acquired pick, and maybe we wouldn't have really been drafting that high that soon, but almost anything higher than 24th would have done us a lot of good.
  • The Ekblad draft: Ekblad says it all, even if we'd been likely to take Reinhart. Draisaitl also of note of course. We fell this year, but not far enough, and it should have been a sign we needed to go hard for this next, and very special, draft.
  • The McDavid draft: McDavid clearly was worth the drop, and also Eichel, Strome, Marner, Hanafin and even Provorov and Werenski where we should have been picking. I love that we got Boeser where we did, but we could have traded for a pick to get him as well as one of those top names.

Obviously we finally did fall far enough (or close to it) but the lottery rules changed in the Matthews draft and it was too late. Either of Matthews or Laine would have been amazing for us when we're struggling with offence, although I'm thankful we got Juolevi where we did.

 

But, any of those previous three drafts - before the lottery rules changed - were prime opportunities for us to be in the running for 1st overall. Take that chance on at least two if not all three of those drafts and we'd have some serious pieces and a rebuild in place alongside whatever vets we'd kept along the way.

 

To be clear, I'd never advocate tanking, but we have been trying the re-tool route where we've held onto much of our vets longer and brought in others when we could have run with what we had and tried to get a return on players we weren't going forward with. We failed to take advantage of key years where we had players who could fill holes (or could sign someone good enough for now) and let them play while likely assuring a good place in the lottery to draft big.

 

But, we are where we are now, and there's not much to fix that except to wait until the talent we do have can help us out. Maybe we manage a few deals to get more picks and players who can bridge the gap, but struggling all this season and getting Patrick won't be the same return as we could have had in any of the previous 3 or 4 drafts had we picked in optimum spots.

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23 hours ago, Honky Cat said:

Gillis for GM to rebuild an NHL team..this is some kind of joke right?...Maybe you should go check out our drafting record under his watch...He left a sunken ship,which has set the franchise back years.

The Canucks were back to back President's Trophy winners.  Stanley Cup finalists.  There's a price to pay to even attempt to build a team like that.  The price is draft picks and prospects.  So, if the Canucks were right now on their way to winning another President's Trophy.  We could sit back and compare draft records to compare GM's.  The success of GMMG in Vancouver is not based on his drafting, but how they did trying to win the Stanley Cup.  Benning on the other hand has already blown it when it comes to building a competitive team.  So the thing that he'll mostly be judged on is his drafting, so it's too bad he's been trading draft picks away. 

 

But if you do want to compare draft records.  With his limited picks Gillis drafted our best young player (Horvat), and got the biggest steal (Hutton 5th round) but didn't do much else.  Benning has (with what we've seen so far) done great with Boeser & Demko, but has potentially the biggest bust since Bryan Allen (4th overall) in Virtanen.  None of his draft picks have made the NHL and lit it up.  So I'm not sure why people keep bragging about Benning as a drafting GM.  If more of his draft picks have an impact in the future, brag away. 

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2 hours ago, DeNiro said:

 

To be fair, management and ownership has never actually tried a proper rebuild. They've continued to sell fans on playoffs despite the odds being against us. I don't think it's a surprise when fans turn their backs when they see the same old garbage on the ice after being promised a better team. Especially with ticket prices continuing to be some of the highest in the league.

 

If they were to do what Toronto did and give the fans a clear direction, I'm pretty sure fans would get on board. Getting a young star would be a hell of alot more reason to go to games than what we're seeing. The problem is selling fans BS year after year. After awhile fans just won't buy it anymore.

 

The problem here is even a young star won't keep butts in the seats. Many like to believe this, but the truth is it will bring some fans out, but will be short lived. The only thing that keeps butts in seats here is winning. Bure couldn't keep butts in seats. Even Bure with Mogilny couldn't keep butts in seats. Winning is all that really matters to our fairweather fanbase.

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1 hour ago, CanadianRugby said:

The Canucks were back to back President's Trophy winners.  Stanley Cup finalists.  There's a price to pay to even attempt to build a team like that.  The price is draft picks and prospects.  So, if the Canucks were right now on their way to winning another President's Trophy.  We could sit back and compare draft records to compare GM's.  The success of GMMG in Vancouver is not based on his drafting, but how they did trying to win the Stanley Cup.  Benning on the other hand has already blown it when it comes to building a competitive team.  So the thing that he'll mostly be judged on is his drafting, so it's too bad he's been trading draft picks away. 

 

But if you do want to compare draft records.  With his limited picks Gillis drafted our best young player (Horvat), and got the biggest steal (Hutton 5th round) but didn't do much else.  Benning has (with what we've seen so far) done great with Boeser & Demko, but has potentially the biggest bust since Bryan Allen (4th overall) in Virtanen.  None of his draft picks have made the NHL and lit it up.  So I'm not sure why people keep bragging about Benning as a drafting GM.  If more of his draft picks have an impact in the future, brag away. 

Gillis didn't draft,or pay any price to build that 2011 team..he inherited ALL of the core players...Credit must go where its due,and Gillis was the mastermind in putting the finishing touches on that core,and guiding the franchise through a short but sweet 'golden period'...For all the good he did,there was a steep price to pay,and we're still paying for it..Gillis paid an astronomical price for Horvat (an elite top 5 NHL goalie)..I really like Horvat,but NJ, to this day, are still winning that trade.....Plus Hutton....Thats 2 impact NHL players out almost 40 picks.....brutal....essentially gutting the team of its prospect pool,and future.

 

In the Sedins first three years here,they were also considered a unanimous bust by a large portion of the fanbase....Its amazing how you can put a 20 year old,and 'bust' in the same sentence...The Canucks history is littered with young players who were so quickly given up,only to have major success elsewhere...That's when the 'whining' really starts.

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2 hours ago, CanadianRugby said:

The Canucks were back to back President's Trophy winners.  Stanley Cup finalists.  There's a price to pay to even attempt to build a team like that.  The price is draft picks and prospects.  So, if the Canucks were right now on their way to winning another President's Trophy.  We could sit back and compare draft records to compare GM's.  The success of GMMG in Vancouver is not based on his drafting, but how they did trying to win the Stanley Cup.  Benning on the other hand has already blown it when it comes to building a competitive team.  So the thing that he'll mostly be judged on is his drafting, so it's too bad he's been trading draft picks away. 

 

But if you do want to compare draft records.  With his limited picks Gillis drafted our best young player (Horvat), and got the biggest steal (Hutton 5th round) but didn't do much else.  Benning has (with what we've seen so far) done great with Boeser & Demko, but has potentially the biggest bust since Bryan Allen (4th overall) in Virtanen.  None of his draft picks have made the NHL and lit it up.  So I'm not sure why people keep bragging about Benning as a drafting GM.  If more of his draft picks have an impact in the future, brag away. 

 

You and I have a radically different definition of the term "bust". Allen played 721 NHL games, was physical shutdown d-man, and excellent penalty killer. If you were expecting a big point producer you set yourself up for disappointment. He was never a big point producer in the OHL. The season before being drafted his 19 points in 47 games placed him 57th among d-men. The D leader that season, Chris Allen, had 95 points in 66 games for perspective. Now Patrick White was a bust. Jordan Schroeder was a bust. Allen, not so much. Btw, Chris Allen was drafted 60th in '96 only played 2 NHL games. You're calling the wrong Allen a bust.

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Honestly if we're up to me I'd rather tank for #1 overall and grab Patrick than a playoff run that ends in a 1st round exit. All we have to do is stockpile on picks. We will eventually trade players like Edler(unlikely but possible), Tanev, Miller, Sbisa.. I'm willing to be as patient as management is right now. Owners may not like the idea but that's damn reality. This team is lacking the speed, skill, shoot first type of players. Once we get those type of players next year, it may take another year or two before we become competitive again. I'm willing to be patient and wait the whole season out to weigh out our options. These down seasons are for the best. But as the years go on we will be rewarded. Can't wait how this rebuild will go. Though I'm not convinced ownership agrees and forces our team to be a contender so he can have all the money in the world. GCG!

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Honestly, Jim Benning is not the problem here. He's done plenty to steer this ship in the right direction, doing more right than wrong. It's the culture surrounding the team, the fans want MORE, the ownership wants MORE. The fact is our youngsters are not good, and the ones that are good have come from Jim's drafting.. excluding Horvat.. It is the ownership that is presenting the problems..

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11 hours ago, Honky Cat said:

Gillis didn't draft,or pay any price to build that 2011 team..he inherited ALL of the core players...Credit must go where its due,and Gillis was the mastermind in putting the finishing touches on that core,and guiding the franchise through a short but sweet 'golden period'...For all the good he did,there was a steep price to pay,and we're still paying for it..Gillis paid an astronomical price for Horvat (an elite top 5 NHL goalie)..I really like Horvat,but NJ, to this day, are still winning that trade.....Plus Hutton....Thats 2 impact NHL players out almost 40 picks.....brutal....essentially gutting the team of its prospect pool,and future.

 

In the Sedins first three years here,they were also considered a unanimous bust by a large portion of the fanbase....Its amazing how you can put a 20 year old,and 'bust' in the same sentence...The Canucks history is littered with young players who were so quickly given up,only to have major success elsewhere...That's when the 'whining' really starts.

Yet you have no problem claiming Demko & Boeser as great picks, even though they haven't made the NHL yet.  Give me a break.  Dekmo & Boeser look good so far, so we call them a steal.  Virtanen looks bad so far, so we call him a bust.  It's not that amazing at all.

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9 hours ago, Baggins said:

 

You and I have a radically different definition of the term "bust". Allen played 721 NHL games, was physical shutdown d-man, and excellent penalty killer. If you were expecting a big point producer you set yourself up for disappointment. He was never a big point producer in the OHL. The season before being drafted his 19 points in 47 games placed him 57th among d-men. The D leader that season, Chris Allen, had 95 points in 66 games for perspective. Now Patrick White was a bust. Jordan Schroeder was a bust. Allen, not so much. Btw, Chris Allen was drafted 60th in '96 only played 2 NHL games. You're calling the wrong Allen a bust.

Drafting a defenseman 4th overall and him being more like a 3rd pairing guy than a 1st pairing, I'd say that's a bust.  But for the sake of argument, I didn't say he was a flat out bust.  I just said Virtanen is the biggest bust since Allen, which at this point is hard to argue.  4th overall and 6th overall who look to be more of role players than core players. 

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34 minutes ago, CanadianRugby said:

Yet you have no problem claiming Demko & Boeser as great picks, even though they haven't made the NHL yet.  Give me a break.  Dekmo & Boeser look good so far, so we call them a steal.  Virtanen looks bad so far, so we call him a bust.  It's not that amazing at all.

Demko and Boeser are projecting nicely..and if there was a redraft of that year,I guarantee that they would be picked higher than they were..If you want to call Virtanen a bust ..go ahead,..I'm just not down with writing off a 20 year old....Just the fact that you would pick Gillis to be in charge of any rebuild makes you amazing...

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20 hours ago, baumerman77 said:

Ideally someone ahead of the curve. Likely it will be someone in the middle of the curve which is still better than Benning who is behind the curve. I guess it turns out being physically "tough to play against" doesn't help you win hockey games. Benning can't seem to understand that the NHL is turning into a speed and skill league. He's still trying to build a team for the dead puck era. 

 

Personally I would take anyone who is willing to listen to others and take into consideration other points of view and not be locked into a stubborn, outdated, philosophy like Benning.

 

Wally Buono!!! 

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On 11/3/2016 at 9:11 AM, Gollumpus said:

Well, you can if you're the Oilers, and you finally draft a guy like McDavid. :P

 

                                             regards,  G.

 

Sigh.  Maybe one day we'll get lucky :(

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