PhillipBlunt Posted January 17, 2017 Share Posted January 17, 2017 1 minute ago, S'all Good Man said: I imagine guys of a certain age go through something similar before trying their first Viagra pill. "Wait...honey...just let me catch my breath.....oh...wait...there it is....nope that was just gas." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldnews Posted January 17, 2017 Share Posted January 17, 2017 1 minute ago, S'all Good Man said: Sure but in this case it actually makes some sense to try them on different units, Bo with Daniel and Hank with Loui. Its worth a 1 game try, it can't get worse. Shuffle the forwards all you want - the team has maybe one powerplay defenseman right now - so try new things - I'm sure the coaching staff has thought of every possible forward setup - but until they pose more of a threat from the blueline, the forwards will be pressed for space - and teams know this - which is why you see them applying more and more puck pressure on the pk. It's not simply a tactical matter - it's a matter of having effective powerplay defensemen. Without Hutton, they're even more limited. With Baertschi on one point they have an even more collapsed, forward-driven powerplay. Try new things - great - but progress will be longer term imo. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PhillipBlunt Posted January 17, 2017 Share Posted January 17, 2017 1 minute ago, oldnews said: Shuffle the forwards all you want - the team has maybe one powerplay defenseman right now - so try new things - I'm sure the coaching staff has thought of every possible forward setup - but until they pose more of a threat from the blueline, the forwards will be pressed for space - and teams know this - which is why you see them applying more and more puck pressure on the pk. It's not simply a tactical matter - it's a matter of having effective powerplay defensemen. Without Hutton, they're even more limited. With Baertschi on one point they have an even more collapsed, forward-driven powerplay. Try new things - great - but progress will be longer term imo. You throw Nikita in front of the goalie, and that's one less player hounding Stecher when he's trying to get a shot off. And that's also one more Russian giant who's nearly impossible to move, who blocks out the sun. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JM_ Posted January 17, 2017 Share Posted January 17, 2017 2 minutes ago, oldnews said: Shuffle the forwards all you want - the team has maybe one powerplay defenseman right now - so try new things - I'm sure the coaching staff has thought of every possible forward setup - but until they pose more of a threat from the blueline, the forwards will be pressed for space - and teams know this - which is why you see them applying more and more puck pressure on the pk. It's not simply a tactical matter - it's a matter of having effective powerplay defensemen. Without Hutton, they're even more limited. With Baertschi on one point they have an even more collapsed, forward-driven powerplay. Try new things - great - but progress will be longer term imo. Yah fair enough. I'd like to see Tryamkin's wrist shot on net on the 2nd unit e.g. He's shown he can even jump up into the play on occasion. He's really the only D to try something with on the 2nd unit. And splitting the twins at least gives teams something to have guess on for a game or two potentially. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cbdoubleu Posted January 17, 2017 Share Posted January 17, 2017 I'm not blaming Stecher for the PP woes, but he is useless out there in the setup we have now without a 2nd RH shot to play the other side that can take a one-timer. Right now everything is off the half wall through Henrik. Teams have Stecher scouted now and with Baer out there being a LH shot and Sutter playing the high slot, teams don't have to worry about the other point or back door to Baer because the puck has to come across his body. I don't think Sutter has a real one-timer to worry teams and he is ok down low around the net, so they should be sliding Stecher over to where Baer is now and find another point man that can feed Stecher on the other side of the ice. Then at least teams will have to spread themselves out a bit and that might open up some back door passes or jam plays down low. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldnews Posted January 17, 2017 Share Posted January 17, 2017 Just now, PhillipBlunt said: You throw Nikita in front of the goalie, and that's one less player hounding Stecher when he's trying to get a shot off. And that's also one more Russian giant who's nearly impossible to move, who blocks out the sun. Nikita occupying a defenseman doesn't necessarily change the problem - you're assuming the team is set up and able to get shots through in the first place - and that Tryamkin as a forward enables this - the problem being that you have to effectively enter the zone and set-up before you enjoy this 'space'. Getting traffic in front of the net and causing problems for the goaltender is a great idea and all (certainly not as original as this thread might suggest) - but whether Tryamkin is a solution isn't any more obvious than any other forward wreaking havoc in front of the net. Can Tryamkin get out of the way of shots - after all, he is blocking the sun right? Does he have an active enough stick in that role? I think that's the kind of thing a player like him has to work on over time - he's not some kind of ready made forward solution to the powerplay, It's not obvious and really it does nothing in the end to solve the problem - that the blueline isn't a great enough threat in the present. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
riffraff Posted January 17, 2017 Share Posted January 17, 2017 2 minutes ago, oldnews said: Nikita occupying a defenseman doesn't necessarily change the problem - you're assuming the team is set up and able to get shots through in the first place - and that Tryamkin as a forward enables this - the problem being that you have to effectively enter the zone and set-up before you enjoy this 'space'. Getting traffic in front of the net and causing problems for the goaltender is a great idea and all (certainly not as original as this thread might suggest) - but whether Tryamkin is a solution isn't any more obvious than any other forward wreaking havoc in front of the net. Can Tryamkin get out of the way of shots - after all, he is blocking the sun right? Does he have an active enough stick in that role? I think that's the kind of thing a player like him has to work on over time - he's not some kind of ready made forward solution to the powerplay, It's not obvious and really it does nothing in the end to solve the problem - that the blueline isn't a great enough threat in the present. you're totally right. lets not try. half joking. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pete M Posted January 17, 2017 Share Posted January 17, 2017 31 minutes ago, oldnews said: This is it in a nutshell. Neither unit really has that guy that can make teams worry about feeding the point. They're working on Stecher in this role, but he's struggled shooting the puck recently. Baertschi on the left point is a half-measure - and temporary imo - he's not a threat except when sneaking into the slot on the weakside, which is why he's there imo. He's not going to shoot from the point and he effectively just compacts the power play - which is less than ideal but at least he serves the purpose of puck-carrying on entries. Like you said - this is where Juolevi comes in - and Boeser's elite right-handed release won't hurt either (they'll have true RH shooters on each unit in the future imo - missing Hansen doesn't help either). While we're waiting for those two - I think we'll have to accept that they are necessarily limited by the blueline options in the present - Edler, Stecher, Hutton, Tanev = a work in progress that is far more of a team-building matter than it is nit-picking coaching decisions as if micro-armchairing the team would lead to pretend powerplay goals. I think this was probably a significant consideration (among others) when they elected to go with Juolevi at 5 - and I personally am thankful they did. Agreed...however, the Sedins movement both passing and skating is predictable and very stationary; plus they play the perimeter, rarely attack the net, and Henrik has a poor shot. Even with a point shot, the PP needs to have quick movement both passing and skating in order to create openings, passing lanes and clear shots. What they're doing now on the PP is horrible and creates none of the above. Thankful only if he turns into the player we are hoping he will become...counting chicks before they are hatched may lead to disappointment. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mll Posted January 17, 2017 Share Posted January 17, 2017 18 minutes ago, oldnews said: Shuffle the forwards all you want - the team has maybe one powerplay defenseman right now - so try new things - I'm sure the coaching staff has thought of every possible forward setup - but until they pose more of a threat from the blueline, the forwards will be pressed for space - and teams know this - which is why you see them applying more and more puck pressure on the pk. It's not simply a tactical matter - it's a matter of having effective powerplay defensemen. Without Hutton, they're even more limited. With Baertschi on one point they have an even more collapsed, forward-driven powerplay. Try new things - great - but progress will be longer term imo. Baer is no longer on the left point - they changed it last game. It's Sutter on left point. Baer is in the slot. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldnews Posted January 17, 2017 Share Posted January 17, 2017 1 minute ago, Pete M said: Agreed...however, the Sedins movement both passing and skating is predictable and very stationary; plus they play the perimeter, rarely attack the net, and Henrik has a poor shot. Even with a point shot, the PP needs to have quick movement both passing and skating in order to create openings, passing lanes and clear shots. What they're doing now on the PP is horrible and creates none of the above. Thankful only if he turns into the player we are hoping he will become...counting chicks before they are hatched may lead to disappointment. Says the guy that knows that Matthew Tkachuk is and will be better than Keith. Try separating these two axes - grinding that one is getting in the way of seeing 'the point' here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldnews Posted January 17, 2017 Share Posted January 17, 2017 5 minutes ago, mll said: Baer is no longer on the left point - they changed it last game. It's Sutter on left point. Baer is in the slot. A welcome improvement imo. Sutter is a right handed shot (for one-timers on the offside) - arguably a better shot than Baertschi as well - and better able to handle the D duties in a pinch imo. But still need Stecher to make teams pay for collapsing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pete M Posted January 17, 2017 Share Posted January 17, 2017 1 minute ago, oldnews said: Says the guy that knows that Matthew Tkachuk is and will be better than Keith. Try separating these two axes - grinding that one is getting in the way of seeing 'the point' here. LoL, a good pick anyway you look at it so far (regarding MT). with OJ we are still hoping. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PhillipBlunt Posted January 17, 2017 Share Posted January 17, 2017 39 minutes ago, oldnews said: Nikita occupying a defenseman doesn't necessarily change the problem - you're assuming the team is set up and able to get shots through in the first place Well of course I am. And who will stop Tryamkin from setting up shop. Once the puck carrier enters the zone, Nikita makes a bee line straight for the goal. I'd think that they could cycle while Nikita moves the peasants out of his way. 39 minutes ago, oldnews said: - and that Tryamkin as a forward enables this - the problem being that you have to effectively enter the zone and set-up before you enjoy this 'space'. The team seems to have no issue entering, more so in maintaining structure once in the zone. 39 minutes ago, oldnews said: Getting traffic in front of the net and causing problems for the goaltender is a great idea and all (certainly not as original as this thread might suggest) I don't think anyone thinks that a net front presence on the PP is original, as Eriksson and Sutter have provided it the season. 39 minutes ago, oldnews said: - but whether Tryamkin is a solution isn't any more obvious than any other forward wreaking havoc in front of the net. Can Tryamkin get out of the way of shots - after all, he is blocking the sun right? Does he have an active enough stick in that role? I think that's the kind of thing a player like him has to work on over time - he's not some kind of ready made forward solution to the powerplay, Once again, no one is claiming that this would heal what ails the PP, merely an interesting set up based on each players physical attributes. 39 minutes ago, oldnews said: It's not obvious and really it does nothing in the end to solve the problem - that the blueline isn't a great enough threat in the present. And staying with the present configuration is solving something? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldnews Posted January 17, 2017 Share Posted January 17, 2017 8 minutes ago, PhillipBlunt said: Well of course I am. And who will stop Tryamkin from setting up shop. Once the puck carrier enters the zone, Nikita makes a bee line straight for the goal. I'd think that they could cycle while Nikita moves the peasants out of his way. The team seems to have no issue entering, more so in maintaining structure once in the zone. I don't think anyone thinks that a net front presence on the PP is original, as Eriksson and Sutter have provided it the season. Once again, no one is claiming that this would heal what ails the PP, merely an interesting set up based on each players physical attributes. And staying with the present configuration is solving something? I don't agree regarding entries - particularly if you replace the winger with Tryamkin - but experiment away - I still think the best options are on the way, not currently on the roster. The way I look at this - it's a good sign that this team's primary problem right now is the powerplay. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PhillipBlunt Posted January 17, 2017 Share Posted January 17, 2017 Just now, oldnews said: I don't agree regarding entries - particularly if you replace the winger with Tryamkin - but experiment away - I still think the best options are on the way, not currently on the roster. Boeser and Juolevi will be exciting additions to the team in every facet of play. As will Demko and Lockwood. One player I'm hoping gets a shot next year is Mackenzie Stewart. I know his name is way under the radar, but the team as it moves forward could use a player like him on the fourth line. Just now, oldnews said: The way I look at this - it's a good sign that this team's primary problem right now is the powerplay. Other good signs: the depth on the defensive core Bo's emergence Granlund's steady ascending play Markstrom's continued improvement Boeser coming back from a wrist injury and not missing a beat. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldnews Posted January 17, 2017 Share Posted January 17, 2017 1 minute ago, PhillipBlunt said: Boeser and Juolevi will be exciting additions to the team in every facet of play. As will Demko and Lockwood. One player I'm hoping gets a shot next year is Mackenzie Stewart. I know his name is way under the radar, but the team as it moves forward could use a player like him on the fourth line. Other good signs: the depth on the defensive core Bo's emergence Granlund's steady ascending play Markstrom's continued improvement Boeser coming back from a wrist injury and not missing a beat. no love for Luca? (jk, part of the d core). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aGENT Posted January 17, 2017 Share Posted January 17, 2017 3 minutes ago, PhillipBlunt said: Boeser and Juolevi will be exciting additions to the team in every facet of play. As will Demko and Lockwood. One player I'm hoping gets a shot next year is Mackenzie Stewart. I know his name is way under the radar, but the team as it moves forward could use a player like him on the fourth line. Other good signs: the depth on the defensive core Bo's emergence Granlund's steady ascending play Markstrom's continued improvement Boeser coming back from a wrist injury and not missing a beat. Juolevi upping his PPG while playing harder minutes on a less talented team as well Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PhillipBlunt Posted January 17, 2017 Share Posted January 17, 2017 7 minutes ago, oldnews said: no love for Luca? (jk, part of the d core). I think that the defense is the best it has been since 2011. Sbisa has been the steadiest, most reliable defenseman this season, and truly a barometer of how Benning has legitimately strengthened the back end. The aspect that 2011's blueline was lacking was larger, tougher, more endurable players who also possess a modicum of skill. Edler has been the standard for that, but to be honest, he's never going to deter a lot of funny business in front of the net. That's not the way he operates. Gudbranson and Tryamkin more than fill that need, while also having other capabilities to give. Benning has constructed such a multi-faceted, hydra of a defensive core, that it will be a pleasure to watch in a couple of years. Every box is checked. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PhillipBlunt Posted January 17, 2017 Share Posted January 17, 2017 4 minutes ago, J.R. said: Juolevi upping his PPG while playing harder minutes on a less talented team as well And surviving the debacle at the WJC as a captain. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JM_ Posted January 17, 2017 Share Posted January 17, 2017 1 hour ago, oldnews said: Nikita occupying a defenseman doesn't necessarily change the problem - you're assuming the team is set up and able to get shots through in the first place - and that Tryamkin as a forward enables this - the problem being that you have to effectively enter the zone and set-up before you enjoy this 'space'. Getting traffic in front of the net and causing problems for the goaltender is a great idea and all (certainly not as original as this thread might suggest) - but whether Tryamkin is a solution isn't any more obvious than any other forward wreaking havoc in front of the net. Can Tryamkin get out of the way of shots - after all, he is blocking the sun right? Does he have an active enough stick in that role? I think that's the kind of thing a player like him has to work on over time - he's not some kind of ready made forward solution to the powerplay, It's not obvious and really it does nothing in the end to solve the problem - that the blueline isn't a great enough threat in the present. So... Subban? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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