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Our Plan Has Failed


asian player

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People need to stop comparing our young players to the leafs young players. It's not even close when looking at skill and talent level. Granlund and Baertschi are Calgary cast-offs, because they had better prospects supplant them. We've tried to shove them in our top 9. Weisbrod needs to be fired now! He's the "Svengali" orchestrating this train wreck.

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5 hours ago, asian player said:

     When Jim Benning took over in 2014, we had finally wrapped up the most painful season in recent memory. He was left with a decent core group of players, around $20 million in cap-space (iirc), and a very bare looking cupboard of prospects. Understandably, Benning decided to try his best to ice a competitive team while finding younger players through draft and trade. Whether you disagree with this philosophy or not, it was a legitimate plan and many teams have been successful with this recipe. 

 

     In his first season, he signed Ryan Miller and Radim Vrbata to help the group we already had. Kesler was also traded for a package and this was the start of the transformation. We had 2 first round picks, our 2014 draft was a huge success. The team was definitely strong enough to compete for a playoff spot and so they decided to keep Horvat up. The Canucks made the playoffs that year and lost out to the Flames in the first round. While the playoffs was disappointing, almost everything went according to plan. Playoff experience was valuable for Bo and the loss helped us identify the weaknesses in the team. 

 

     The next season, we brought up 3 rookies and acquired Sven Baertschi. It was not difficult to tell Bonino was a little slow and bit small to play that 2C position. Benning traded Bonino for Sutter to solidify the position and recognized him as a "foundational player". Everything at this point looked like it was going according to plan. We were icing a competitive team while slowly inserting our youth into the lineup. However as the season went on, our players were dropping like flies. We were forced to rush Bo into a position we did not expect we had to. With all the injuries, we finished the season close to last and we ended up drafting a very solid defenseman. 

 

    In the summer of 2016, Jim took a look at where we were as a team. He thought last year was simply unlucky as we had many of our core guys injured. He decided to trade McCann for Gudbranson to bolster our back end. Again, we slowly worked our rookies into the lineup with Gaunce, Tryamkin and a bit of Stecher. After our quick 3-0 start, we have lost every game after that and it seems like we can't seem to buy a goal. 

 

Now, looking at where we are as a team right now, are we still going according to plan? Obviously, things could quickly turn around and we could even make the playoffs. However, it just seems unlikely. It's clear we have a very weak forward group. If by trade deadline we are still struggling, shouldn't we adjust to what is happening? If we are no longer winning, we are no longer developing our youth in a winning environment. At this point, it does not seem like there are many options for us in terms of bringing in help. Our youth are suffering in a losing culture right now. Right now, we have several players that will be young enough to compete for the next cup push. Horvat, Baertschi, Virtanen, Stecher, Hutton, Gaunce, Tryamkin, Gudbranson are all young. Additionally, we have 3 top tier prospects as well as several very promising kids in the minors. Should we flip some of our guys for draft picks or young players like Vrana? 

 

TL;DR: If we are no longer bringing up our young players in a winning culture, things are not going according to plan. If we are losing regardless, should we move some of our guys for picks or younger players? 

 

How is this "Our plan"? I don't feel like I had a say in it at all? Did you?

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3 hours ago, Bob.Loblaw said:

So you are putting a lot of the onus on Jim Benning.  If there was one thing I really don't like about him, it is his arrogance or pride.  I sometimes feel as though he is too proud to admit his mistakes, and puts pressure on the coach and team to make sure his vision becomes reality.  I think he pressured WD to continue playing Vey and Virtanen.  He decided to not pull any trades last deadline because he did not feel like he was getting a fair deal.  He did not re-claim Emerson Etem even though he had every right and cause to do so.  

 

There's always other sides to this argument but he is definitely stubborn and probably very arrogant.  Now the team is paying the price.

 

 

JB is arrogant?  Think GMMG, but JB has admitted mistakes, traded players that he brought in. Having almost no assests to work with due to ten years of play now pay later management has left this team where it is. 

 

   The plan looks to be done, so if the tank is on, do it right. Look to move assests for picks and or prospects.  Before that step, change your coach and see if some one else can do better.  It's the only option to salvage the year, and the club owes its fans and players to try.   WD has got to go. 

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What was the plan then? 
Year 1 - Make the playoffs

Year 2 - get young guys into the lineup

Year 3 - Win the Stanley cup because the young guys have 1 year of experience? 

When a team is getting younger, they're going to likely be a losing team, and together they develop into a winning team. That's what happened in Tampa, Chicago, Pittsburgh, etc. All those teams were the worst team in the league at one point, but as their young guys developed together, they developed into a winning team. 

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I don't mind some of the decisions GMJB's made but in the middle of this losing streak those decisions start to look like mistakes and they become glaring. 

 

PRO: I like that we drafted Jake

CON: I hate how he wasn't sent to the W last year or the A this year

 

PRO: I liked the hiring of WD, thought he'd work well with the kids, highly-sought after an AHL title

CON: I can't stand WD anymore, in over his head and can't keep up at this level

 

PRO: We signed Loui Eriksson, the guy who typically plays so well with the Sedins

CON: He plays so much better with them when it's not for $36M

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4 hours ago, N4ZZY said:

I agree that we need to begin to accumulate high end draft picks. Nolan Patrick may not be a first line centre, but if he's an excellent 2nd line centre, he may be a decent first liner, and Horvat could be the excellent second line centreman. 1-2 punch down the middle for years to come.

 

I think it's too soon to talk about Nolan Patrick (heck even if Vancouver becomes dead last the team only has a 20% of landing him) but being an excellent 2nd line center is his ceiling than I would be happy with that. That means he can still be a very good first line player provided the team has the right pieces. I mean my memory is a bit foggy but people were expecting Krejci, Getzlaf, Giroux, Datsyuk, or Kopitar to be either elite1st line centers or 1st line centers of cup winning teams?


 

 

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or we can trust that they know their business and the results will come. just not as fast as the fans want.

we know that the sedins will finish their careers here, that ericksson has a nmc for the first 2 years of his contract.

both burrows and miller's contracts expire after this season.

we know that, boeser, juolevi, stecher and demko may be here next year.

we also know that the fans won't stand by a total rebuild and still buy season's tickets.

for the most part, we are playing sound defensive hockey.

of course they were expecting more goals. louie and the sedins will get more goals. i don't see baertschi  being a great scorer.

virtanen isn't ready yet. they hoped that rodin would score goals. but he has to play to score.

our goalie and defense is stronger but no QB has emerged yet.

benning knows they need to find a replacement for the sedins. until they do, they are our best chance to be competitive.

if they play more wide open hockey, they would score more goals, but would probably lose games, like 6-3.

until our young players can supplant our veterans, we have to wait for them to develop.

i believe our coaching staff is doing what they can with the players they have.

TL and JB have both said, that there are no short cuts. you build through the draft and make some good trades. it will take time.  

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6 hours ago, asian player said:

Right now, we have several players that will be young enough to compete for the next cup push. Horvat, Baertschi, Virtanen, Stecher, Hutton, Gaunce, Tryamkin, Gudbranson are all young. Additionally, we have 3 top tier prospects as well as several very promising kids in the minors. Should we flip some of our guys for draft picks or young players like Vrana? 

 

TL;DR: If we are no longer bringing up our young players in a winning culture, things are not going according to plan. If we are losing regardless, should we move some of our guys for picks or younger players? 

Trevor Linden has to act in the best interest of the team and right now WD is the issue. If one can't make the tough calls one should be doing something else. WD has to go before more damage is done, I remember when Quinn put his friendship with Rick Ley above the good of the team and that can't happen again. The question is, how long will ownership let this go on. We are obviously going in the wrong direction right now and the first thing that needs to change is the coach.

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One thing that would have really helped fast track the re-tool or re-build or whatever is being sellers on the dead-line...but Vancouver never does it.  We always hold onto our aging vets and this is a historical thing, not a Benning thing.  Something fundamental needs to change at the top because we are not "staying competitive" and we are certainly not icing an exciting hockey team.

 

The mandate to make the playoffs every year is starting to look laughable and that is going to be harder and harder to deny as this death march continues.

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Oh goodie, another redundant thread about Bennings plan where a bunch of blowhards can write 3 paragraph posts claiming how they could do a better job.  Best to make new threads about this so that these won't get lost in existing threads about Bennings plan....

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Given how few prospects we had when Benning took over, its no surprise that the patchwork team he's put together is struggling. But there really wasn't a lot of choice, drafting and developing the next core is at minimum a 5 year job, and he does have some of the major pieces like Boeser, Demko, Juolevi, and actually a healthy number of other guys who could conceivably crack the lineup some day like Breisbois, etc. So on drafting the plan is on track. 

 

On veteran signings, even there he did fine. By the time this team is competitive Loui will be in the last 1/2 of his contact and very movable, or if need be bought out.

 

We need either a new coach or a big change in coaching style before we can say the plan has failed. I just don't think Willie is able to adapt to games or is able to develop younger players. 

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When Benning took over, there was lots of talk about a 5 year plan.  Turning the team around and seeing it begin to climb up the standings was going to take 5 years.  

 

Benning arrived here a little over 2 years ago.  He has had 3 drafts and 2 years of development.  Everybody knew there would be bumps in the road and when they hit bumps, the sky is falling.

 

Understand that the Canuck situation is different from every other team.  And it is a team, results from individual players have to be measured in a team context.  The Canucks went 7 draft years, with no assets to show for it.  This dates back to Dave Nonis' time.  Draft years 2005 to 2011 with zero players to show for it.

 

Bening has tried to correct for this but the players he has been able to accumulate are 3rd line quality on good teams.  Sutter, Baertschi, Granlund, Larsen, Sbisa, Stecher and Gudbranson are on the present roster and some of them are wait and see.

 

From the beginning, it has been said by Linden that the real improvements in this team are going to come from drafted players.  They have to develop.  This takes 4-5 years for most players.  Horvat was drafted 4 years ago and while this is his 3rd NHL season, he is just beginning to show signs of the player he will become.  

 

It's going to take time.  Not all bumps in the road are the same.  Some are little and some are big.

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2 hours ago, smithers joe said:

TL and JB have both said, that there are no short cuts. you build through the draft and make some good trades. it will take time.  

All out of rep points, Joe, but you hit it right on the button. We're in this for the long haul (I'd say five years or more of rebuild). It's gonna be tough too, likely worse than it is now or was last year. I'm just happy Horvat, Guddy, Hutton, and Stech are young enough that if they stick with us our team's prime will overlap with their individual ones. 

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3 hours ago, Lafayettecrossbar said:

I don't mind some of the decisions GMJB's made but in the middle of this losing streak those decisions start to look like mistakes and they become glaring. 

 

PRO: I like that we drafted Jake

CON: I hate how he wasn't sent to the W last year or the A this year

 

PRO: I liked the hiring of WD, thought he'd work well with the kids, highly-sought after an AHL title

CON: I can't stand WD anymore, in over his head and can't keep up at this level

 

PRO: We signed Loui Eriksson, the guy who typically plays so well with the Sedins

CON: He plays so much better with them when it's not for $36M

 

 

Would like to think that Eriksson will snap out of it.  Jake can still go to the A.  It was too early to bring him in, but I have wondered if Management didn't trust the Hitman (Calgary Flames ownership) to develop him properly. 

 

WD. I was hopeful, but after the last 7-8 games I'm done. He lacks the imagination and creativity to have an underdog roster. For &^@#sakes, try something different on offense. 

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Of course the plan has failed.  This team is supposed to be a playoff team, have a winning environment to show the rookies how to play.  But instead this is one of the worst teams in the league and there are no great rookies to teach either. 

 

As far as the clownshow that this season is.  CBC, Sportsnet, TSN, Team1040, ESPN, The Province, The Vancouver Sun, The National Post, The Hockey News, Yahoo Sports, Vegas Oddsmakers, Bleacher Report, and Vice News.. not to mention many hockey analysts all predicted this would happen and that this team needs to be blown up.  What's happening isn't a surprise at all unless you're a totally blind homer. 

 

This team should have been retooled after losing to LA in 5 games.  It's too late for a retool, time for a total rebuild.  Stop bringing in old overpaid vets, and trading 2nd rounders for players that can't make other teams. 

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8 hours ago, asian player said:

     When Jim Benning took over in 2014, we had finally wrapped up the most painful season in recent memory. He was left with a decent core group of players, around $20 million in cap-space (iirc), and a very bare looking cupboard of prospects. Understandably, Benning decided to try his best to ice a competitive team while finding younger players through draft and trade. Whether you disagree with this philosophy or not, it was a legitimate plan and many teams have been successful with this recipe. 

 

     In his first season, he signed Ryan Miller and Radim Vrbata to help the group we already had. Kesler was also traded for a package and this was the start of the transformation. We had 2 first round picks, our 2014 draft was a huge success. The team was definitely strong enough to compete for a playoff spot and so they decided to keep Horvat up. The Canucks made the playoffs that year and lost out to the Flames in the first round. While the playoffs was disappointing, almost everything went according to plan. Playoff experience was valuable for Bo and the loss helped us identify the weaknesses in the team. 

 

     The next season, we brought up 3 rookies and acquired Sven Baertschi. It was not difficult to tell Bonino was a little slow and bit small to play that 2C position. Benning traded Bonino for Sutter to solidify the position and recognized him as a "foundational player". Everything at this point looked like it was going according to plan. We were icing a competitive team while slowly inserting our youth into the lineup. However as the season went on, our players were dropping like flies. We were forced to rush Bo into a position we did not expect we had to. With all the injuries, we finished the season close to last and we ended up drafting a very solid defenseman. 

 

    In the summer of 2016, Jim took a look at where we were as a team. He thought last year was simply unlucky as we had many of our core guys injured. He decided to trade McCann for Gudbranson to bolster our back end. Again, we slowly worked our rookies into the lineup with Gaunce, Tryamkin and a bit of Stecher. After our quick 3-0 start, we have lost every game after that and it seems like we can't seem to buy a goal. 

 

Now, looking at where we are as a team right now, are we still going according to plan? Obviously, things could quickly turn around and we could even make the playoffs. However, it just seems unlikely. It's clear we have a very weak forward group. If by trade deadline we are still struggling, shouldn't we adjust to what is happening? If we are no longer winning, we are no longer developing our youth in a winning environment. At this point, it does not seem like there are many options for us in terms of bringing in help. Our youth are suffering in a losing culture right now. Right now, we have several players that will be young enough to compete for the next cup push. Horvat, Baertschi, Virtanen, Stecher, Hutton, Gaunce, Tryamkin, Gudbranson are all young. Additionally, we have 3 top tier prospects as well as several very promising kids in the minors. Should we flip some of our guys for draft picks or young players like Vrana? 

 

TL;DR: If we are no longer bringing up our young players in a winning culture, things are not going according to plan. If we are losing regardless, should we move some of our guys for picks or younger players? 

No. All wrong.

 

This is the new NHL. Parody rules Every team takes turns having losing streaks. We are having an 8 game losing streak. We will probably have a 6-8 game winning streak this year while someone leaves "plan fails"

 

The results lately do not reflect the roster

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