We need a GM that can stand up to ownership

[73 Percent]

7 hours ago, Matt_T83 said:

For all the people complaining about WD or GM Benning, the real problem with this team is the owners.

 

The Aquilini's have consistently interfered with the management of the team. For a while it wasn't that big of an issue. However, once Alain Vingeault was fired, the real problems began. Mike Gillis wanted nothing to do with John Tortorella, but was forced to hire him by ownership. We all know how well that turned out. So they fire everyone and hire new people. But instead of accepting the inevitable decline the team, ownership doubled down on trying to stay competitive. They have forced Benning to make trades, giving away multiple 2nd round draft picks. This was obviously doomed to fail, since we didn't really have anywhere near the prospect pool we needed to do this. 

 

We had a decent prospect in Jared McCann that we just let go for an average 2nd pairing defenseman in Gudbranson, who is now -7. I didn't expect Gudbranson to score goals, we knew that coming in. But I did expect him to be a dependable shut down defenseman and keep an even +/-.  And all of this was done for a declining team that clearly isn't going to make the playoffs. Maybe ownership thinks we just need to trade away our 1st + 2nd round picks next year, and that will get us the last piece we need to complete this team.

 

The only two ways this team is ever going to be competitive again is 1) sucking so badly for 5-10 years that we eventually get a few first overall picks or 2) firing Benning and hiring a GM that is willing to stand up to ownership and make tough decisions. Either way we are going to suck for a while. The question is, do we suck for 4-5 years and then become competitive? Or do we keep trying in vain to 'win now' and end up sucking for 10 more years?

Go tell the owner where you work that you don't like the way things are done round here and demand change. 

 

 

Do it. 

[smithers joe]

i don't know how people can make statements with little or no proof. i'm sure the owners have said, they want the team to be competitive enough so they won't lose all the revenue. that is just sound business. benning and linden have both said, they don't interfere with the running of the team.  either they're lying or some people are privy to more info then the rest of us.  some people think that because their idea of rebuilding this team is different from their's, then it has to be ownership's fault. 

[Rocksterh8]

I don't believe it is the Owners fault, I think Benning came in with this plan that he can do both and thats why he was hired. He had Linden and the Owners believing him, but he was very wrong. If I was Aqualini I would fire Linden, Benning and Willy for spewing a bunch of garbage that was not realistic. 

[ItsMillerTime]

Gudbranson has more points then McCann. McCann is struggling right now. Thats all.

[Hugor Hill]

New need new ownership, period.

[Mike Vanderhoek]

10 hours ago, Matt_T83 said:

For all the people complaining about WD or GM Benning, the real problem with this team is the owners.

 

The Aquilini's have consistently interfered with the management of the team. For a while it wasn't that big of an issue. However, once Alain Vingeault was fired, the real problems began. Mike Gillis wanted nothing to do with John Tortorella, but was forced to hire him by ownership. We all know how well that turned out. So they fire everyone and hire new people. But instead of accepting the inevitable decline the team, ownership doubled down on trying to stay competitive. They have forced Benning to make trades, giving away multiple 2nd round draft picks. This was obviously doomed to fail, since we didn't really have anywhere near the prospect pool we needed to do this. 

 

We had a decent prospect in Jared McCann that we just let go for an average 2nd pairing defenseman in Gudbranson, who is now -7. I didn't expect Gudbranson to score goals, we knew that coming in. But I did expect him to be a dependable shut down defenseman and keep an even +/-.  And all of this was done for a declining team that clearly isn't going to make the playoffs. Maybe ownership thinks we just need to trade away our 1st + 2nd round picks next year, and that will get us the last piece we need to complete this team.

 

The only two ways this team is ever going to be competitive again is 1) sucking so badly for 5-10 years that we eventually get a few first overall picks or 2) firing Benning and hiring a GM that is willing to stand up to ownership and make tough decisions. Either way we are going to suck for a while. The question is, do we suck for 4-5 years and then become competitive? Or do we keep trying in vain to 'win now' and end up sucking for 10 more years?

 

Pretty sure you are making a lot of assumptions about how things actually work and how you feel they have. Not discrediting the points that some moves did not jive with say how MG or JB would tell you their plan was but yeah. We don't know this is the work of ownership.

[Nucker 67]

It is what it is. I'm sure JB doesn't want to lose his job. But really, is it the owners fault? Or are the Canucks just in a position where their only stars are old and the young guys are still developing on the go? Can't blame the owners for hanging on to the Sedins and wanting playoffs. The Sedins want to stay, and they will, until THEY decide to leave.

[JM_]

You know whats great about conspiracy theories? You can never prove them. 

 

Where's the Harold Ballard public flogging of players? The Cuban-esque yelling from the sidelines? The years of trying to field bad teams to skim a little personal profit?

 

Oh right... sorry, forgot we we're not dealing with actual facts.

 

The Aquilini's are far from what many other sports teams are dealing with. The simplest explanation is they let their GMs do their jobs, and we're dealing with 5 years of poor drafting, and 3 years of an attempt to keep things interesting by trying to rebuild and stay competitive at the same time. 

 

The "competitive rebuild" isn't a pull it out yer arse plan. its the only thing you can do with 1) a very shallow prospect pool, and 2) old veterans that are hard to move out of the organization. 

 

IMO the only thing keeping this team from being more competitive is Willie - the man is not an NHL calibre coach. Benning is waiting for a 10 game losing streak to have a legit reason to more on from Willie and still be able to attract a quality coach. If Benning was seen as meddling in the coaches job, good luck getting a good one. At least thats my theory. 

[PhillipBlunt]

10 hours ago, Matt_T83 said:

For all the people complaining about WD or GM Benning, the real problem with this team is the owners.

 

The Aquilini's have consistently interfered with the management of the team. For a while it wasn't that big of an issue. However, once Alain Vingeault was fired, the real problems began. Mike Gillis wanted nothing to do with John Tortorella, but was forced to hire him by ownership. We all know how well that turned out. So they fire everyone and hire new people. But instead of accepting the inevitable decline the team, ownership doubled down on trying to stay competitive. They have forced Benning to make trades, giving away multiple 2nd round draft picks. This was obviously doomed to fail, since we didn't really have anywhere near the prospect pool we needed to do this. 

 

We had a decent prospect in Jared McCann that we just let go for an average 2nd pairing defenseman in Gudbranson, who is now -7. I didn't expect Gudbranson to score goals, we knew that coming in. But I did expect him to be a dependable shut down defenseman and keep an even +/-.  And all of this was done for a declining team that clearly isn't going to make the playoffs. Maybe ownership thinks we just need to trade away our 1st + 2nd round picks next year, and that will get us the last piece we need to complete this team.

 

The only two ways this team is ever going to be competitive again is 1) sucking so badly for 5-10 years that we eventually get a few first overall picks or 2) firing Benning and hiring a GM that is willing to stand up to ownership and make tough decisions. Either way we are going to suck for a while. The question is, do we suck for 4-5 years and then become competitive? Or do we keep trying in vain to 'win now' and end up sucking for 10 more years?

Think about what you're actually saying. But then if you did that, you wouldn't have written this post, and I wouldn't be responding to it. Nevermind. 

[PhillipBlunt]

11 minutes ago, S'all Good Man said:

You know whats great about conspiracy theories? You can never prove them. 

 

Where's the Harold Ballard public flogging of players? The Cuban-esque yelling from the sidelines? The years of trying to field bad teams to skim a little personal profit?

 

Oh right... sorry, forgot we we're not dealing with actual facts.

 

The Aquilini's are far from what many other sports teams are dealing with. The simplest explanation is they let their GMs do their jobs, and we're dealing with 5 years of poor drafting, and 3 years of an attempt to keep things interesting by trying to rebuild and stay competitive at the same time. 

 

The "competitive rebuild" isn't a pull it out yer arse plan. its the only thing you can do with 1) a very shallow prospect pool, and 2) old veterans that are hard to move out of the organization. 

 

IMO the only thing keeping this team from being more competitive is Willie - the man is not an NHL calibre coach. Benning is waiting for a 10 game losing streak to have a legit reason to more on from Willie and still be able to attract a quality coach. If Benning was seen as meddling in the coaches job, good luck getting a good one. At least thats my theory. 

I'd say it's a pretty sound one, S'all. 

[TheOgRook]

9 hours ago, LaBamba said:

Ownership won't stand for this. After seeing a few tank teams gaining traction they will embrace the tank. 

 

We don't often agree but I could totally see this being the case, and with the curse hanging over this franchise...we will get a Yakupov not a Mcdavid

[Ghostsof1915]

A bunch of whiney, impatient children. 

 

Waaaaahhh...I want a team of McDavids, and multiple cups. 

 

Fans here can't tolerate a losing streak, imagine 3-4 seasons of this to get multiple top 5 picks?

 

Look at The Rangers. (Ugh) Lots of mid round picks and they are near the top of league. 

 

Maybe just let Jim try and build the best team possible, and stop complaining about stuff you can't control. 

 

 

[Mr.53]

That's not how the system works. You don't stand up to ownership. You either do as ownership says, or you get fired and replaced. Period.

 

The best case scenario of what a GM can do is convince ownership of their vision, and get them to give them the green light to do whatever they want. But under no means can a GM or is a GM capable of standing up to ownership, and making decisions behind their back.

 

Ownership has to sign off on every deal or decision, made, generally they give GMs the green light as they obviously know more than they do, but not always. Either get new ownership or the fans stand up. Only the fans, who line the owners pocket book have say. The sad reality is, until ownership is effected enough financially, they won't change their views. 

 

Hopefully the Aquillinis can come to their senses, hire a GM, and takes a hands off approach. Pick the man you want to run the place, and then trust him. I gaurantee every single GM in the league knows better than the Aquillinis do. Let them do their job!

[TimberWolf]

Benning is not terrible because of the owners, he's terrible because he's terrible..

 

I find it hard to believe that the owners would fire a guy that didn't share their philosophy and then hire another that also did not. Also if they say "win now!" then it's still the execution of the plan to blame. I highly doubt they demanded trading a third and overpaying Dorsett, for example.

 

The owners may suck, but they are in similar company with this management team. 

[TimberWolf]

5 minutes ago, Ghostsof1915 said:

A bunch of whiney, impatient children. 

 

Waaaaahhh...I want a team of McDavids, and multiple cups. 

 

Fans here can't tolerate a losing streak, imagine 3-4 seasons of this to get multiple top 5 picks?

 

Look at The Rangers. (Ugh) Lots of mid round picks and they are near the top of league. 

 

Maybe just let Jim try and build the best team possible, and stop complaining about stuff you can't control. 

 

 

 

 

Not accurate, they don't mind a loser as long as it's not a hopeless loser that Jim will flip any accumulated mid round picks for bottom six stopgaps.

 

We are the leafs during their futile ten years right now, it's understandable the mood is dour. 

[gameburn2]

10 hours ago, VIC_CITY said:

 

Pretty much. 

 

Benning is doing what he can. It's gonna be a long season folks. Even ownership is gonna see things for what they really are. There will be no way around it. Hansen and one of Edler/Tanev will likely be traded by the deadline. The rebuild will be in full effect. 

I hope you are right.  These things should have been done last TDL or in the summer, but better late than never.  (I do think that a couple of 15 game losing streaks and the Sedins get rag-dolled is going to open the last of the closed eyes.)

 

I also think we have to learn from the Draft: that qualifying for a top-3 pick isn't enough. The Draft is a bit uncertain these days (unlike when Edm got McSaviour guaranteed.)  So, multiple picks and building a Calder Cup winner is the way to go.  And scout the BCHL more: clearly this is a local gold mine we don't do enough with.

 

I wish the municipalities of the Lower Mainland would buy the team; make it community owned.

 

 

[Alflives]

10 hours ago, Matt_T83 said:

For all the people complaining about WD or GM Benning, the real problem with this team is the owners.

 

The Aquilini's have consistently interfered with the management of the team. For a while it wasn't that big of an issue. However, once Alain Vingeault was fired, the real problems began. Mike Gillis wanted nothing to do with John Tortorella, but was forced to hire him by ownership. We all know how well that turned out. So they fire everyone and hire new people. But instead of accepting the inevitable decline the team, ownership doubled down on trying to stay competitive. They have forced Benning to make trades, giving away multiple 2nd round draft picks. This was obviously doomed to fail, since we didn't really have anywhere near the prospect pool we needed to do this. 

 

We had a decent prospect in Jared McCann that we just let go for an average 2nd pairing defenseman in Gudbranson, who is now -7. I didn't expect Gudbranson to score goals, we knew that coming in. But I did expect him to be a dependable shut down defenseman and keep an even +/-.  And all of this was done for a declining team that clearly isn't going to make the playoffs. Maybe ownership thinks we just need to trade away our 1st + 2nd round picks next year, and that will get us the last piece we need to complete this team.

 

The only two ways this team is ever going to be competitive again is 1) sucking so badly for 5-10 years that we eventually get a few first overall picks or 2) firing Benning and hiring a GM that is willing to stand up to ownership and make tough decisions. Either way we are going to suck for a while. The question is, do we suck for 4-5 years and then become competitive? Or do we keep trying in vain to 'win now' and end up sucking for 10 more years?

Why do you think this owner hired two rookie GM's?  No experienced GM would take the job, because Aqualini is too controlling in hockey opps.  Aquaman is a fan first and foremost.  He's like us!  How many of us here would be making suggestions on what is best to do hockey wise?  Just because Aquaman is filthy rich, and owns the team, doesn't mean he's less of a fan than any of us here - Except Desi, and look what happened to him!  

[aGENT]

10 hours ago, Matt_T83 said:

For all the people complaining about WD or GM Benning, the real problem with this team is the owners.

 

The Aquilini's have consistently interfered with the management of the team. For a while it wasn't that big of an issue. However, once Alain Vingeault was fired, the real problems began. Mike Gillis wanted nothing to do with John Tortorella, but was forced to hire him by ownership. We all know how well that turned out. So they fire everyone and hire new people. But instead of accepting the inevitable decline the team, ownership doubled down on trying to stay competitive. They have forced Benning to make trades, giving away multiple 2nd round draft picks. This was obviously doomed to fail, since we didn't really have anywhere near the prospect pool we needed to do this. 

 

We had a decent prospect in Jared McCann that we just let go for an average 2nd pairing defenseman in Gudbranson, who is now -7. I didn't expect Gudbranson to score goals, we knew that coming in. But I did expect him to be a dependable shut down defenseman and keep an even +/-.  And all of this was done for a declining team that clearly isn't going to make the playoffs. Maybe ownership thinks we just need to trade away our 1st + 2nd round picks next year, and that will get us the last piece we need to complete this team.

 

The only two ways this team is ever going to be competitive again is 1) sucking so badly for 5-10 years that we eventually get a few first overall picks or 2) firing Benning and hiring a GM that is willing to stand up to ownership and make tough decisions. Either way we are going to suck for a while. The question is, do we suck for 4-5 years and then become competitive? Or do we keep trying in vain to 'win now' and end up sucking for 10 more years?

 

We need a fan base that doesn't go full panic every 5 seconds and has some semblance of a clue.

[Matt_T83]

8 hours ago, VancouverHabitant said:

We are losing, this is part of the rebuild that you want OP.  

I don't know how much worst you think it can get, and I'm happy with most of the trades that Benning has done.  
 

 

I'd rather have a GM that can draft well then one who will be standing up to management.

 

Right, but my problem with this situation is that we have continually diminishing assets. We should have traded Edler when there was interest in him. His trade value has significantly diminished because of the strategy ownership have laid out. I agree that losing is part of the rebuild -- I don't really care that we are losing. What I care about is that we are trading away picks/prospects to be, at best, mediocre.

 

We need to embrace the rebuild have Benning kicking tires on everyone. Sutter, Tanev, Hansen, Edler, etc.  The only untouchables I really see are the young players (25 & under) and the Sedins. Other than that, we need to pick up more picks and prospects. That way we can be dead last for 3-4 years in a row, hopefully get some good top draft picks, and start to be competitive again in 4-5 years.

[LaBamba]

19 minutes ago, Ghostsof1915 said:

A bunch of whiney, impatient children. 

 

Waaaaahhh...I want a team of McDavids, and multiple cups. 

 

Fans here can't tolerate a losing streak, imagine 3-4 seasons of this to get multiple top 5 picks?

 

Look at The Rangers. (Ugh) Lots of mid round picks and they are near the top of league. 

 

Maybe just let Jim try and build the best team possible, and stop complaining about stuff you can't control. 

 

 

 

The rangers also have arguably the best team builder in the history of hockey working for them. Benning isn't even good enough to drive his limousine.